Princess Arabia

Makes no sense. If spiritual goal is to kill the self then what is being used to kill the self. Gaining of a self that is already there to accomplish that material goal is also nonsensical.

The paths are not the same, the outcome is. The thought is what ignited the desire, but the achievement is what gave the desired feeling. You have assumed that spirituality gives enduring peace to everyone and that material gain is always transient. I can also say that providing one can afford to keep getting the materialistic gain they so desire after each initial satisfaction has subsided, they can forever hold that in place also, with maybe only a short span of life's turmoils inbetween and that the peace that comes with spirituality can fluctuate back and forth where one has to keep meditating or whatever they do to keep it in place. You're still not, imo, showing me any differences, only a few that can vary from individual to individual. I don't see, for instance most people on this spiritual forum and even those who do continuous spiritual practices showing signs of lasting contentment and peace. How is one having to do the same practices over and over and over to maintain that peace, lasting peace. No, it's contingent upon keeping those practices afloat. That's not the same as lasting peace.

I would beg to differ and I see it as the opposite. So much so that it did a 360 and came back full circle. Maybe it's the opposers that aren't being indepth enough to see through the differences. This is just a matter of opinion and I respect yours.

These are relative differences and depending on the taste of the individual and also interests. A personal analysis and has nothing to do with the intent of the Absolute/Universe/God/Source. It is still trying to achieve something and it's the mind that makes the distinction between which is more important.

Another credit given to my post where Spiritual beings believe they are enlightening anyone because of a difference of opinion or perspective or belief.

My post was not about bypassing the desiring process. It was to show there is no difference in spiritual desires and materialistic desires. They are one of the same. We can rationalize all we want about why spirituality is better and it goes deeper than materialism, but at the end of the day, there is no ultimate difference. That's what the post is about.

There's nothing is my post that suggests that I'm not aware of the essence of spiritual practices. Maybe it's because I did do intense reflection and do grasp the essence of both why I'm making such claims. What you've done here in your response was to show why a Mercedes is better than a Honda. I also said I wasn't comparing the desire for a car to be the same as the desire to meditate or any spiritual practice. The only reason why you say superficial similarities is because that's how you see it, but not actually how it is. It's a perception. All the reasons you gave why spirituality is not the same, they are all perceptions. The Universe/Absolute/whatever you call it, life doesn't. How can we say it's all one, but then put the One into categories and compartments and departments. The mind does that. You have also turned my post into me saying I don't see beyond the superficial similarities when I was merely stating an observation and never once said that I don't see beyond anything. Maybe I do see beyond the superficiality of buying a car and have raised the bar for materialism while not lowering the Spiritual bar. You have assumed that I don't see the benefit of spiritual practices or that materialism doesn't have a spiritual essence to it. The mind is what differentiates the two, not according to the Absolute oneness of it all. IMO, your response have highlighted the point i was trying to make and have given it much merit.

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Yes, and it is just a perspective and a story like everything else that's been said about the Absolute. I agree, and it's all true depending on who's perceiving.

Yeah, that's who I'm referring to.

Depends on the individual here also. Some are worse off because of expectations, confusion, lack of Spiritual maturity, emotional intelligence and so on. Just as how many lose their lottery winnings because their minds didn't have the container to sustain it, the same can be said for those turning to this lifestyle who lack the maturity to do so. You can find the sameness and differences in both polarities.

I think this can be exhausted also. Some stop trying to attain materialistic goals then turn to spirituality believing they are on a better path, which can be the case, not denying that, but it's still a quest to feel better about things/life. Even if they stop the materialistic seeking and never turn to spirituality they will still be on some form of quest even if it's the search for peace and tranquility.

Exactly. Your whole response was great and I see that you get the drift in what I was trying to relate. It get's overlooked because of how the mind likes to categorize things, which is fine because that's it's nature; but we have to try and step above the logical mind to really see life for what it is.

The only dream is the Individual that thinks it has a life, it's separate from the rest and that it is thinking thoughts and it's ideas about life, reality existence and that it is inside a Universe. Thoughts, ideas, concepts, insights, perceptions etcetc.....that's the dream. "Reality" is alive and kicking. The Absolute is not a dream. IT appears as one dreaming and whatever appears is real. The illusion is not in the appearances, but in the thoughts and ideas about what's appearing; which is dependent on the individual's dream, it's construct and worldviews, perceptions and survival agenda and mechanisms. There is no one seeing anything, hearing anything, speaking or thinking anything. These are only appearances; and the separate self thinks these things are happening to it and it owns everything that arises within it's bubble. It's life happening and talking happening, hearing happening etcetc but for and to no one. That's why it's called a dream.

What's the difference between "mind talk" and "inner talk"?

Can you watch then there too after signing up?

Truth isn't lost. Thought is time, thought is space. That how you're even able to analyze your analysis.

I think the only time something has meaning is when it adds to the individual's construction and survival. Anything other than this, get's obscured.

Lots of people are enjoying life right now. Experiencing it to the fullest - suffering and all, with no expectations or waiting to become enlightened or what could be instore. Life is now and only now. Waiting is a dream. I've been learning, experiencing and feeling all my life, don't know about you, through every suffering, joy, sadness, happy moments, catastrophes, crying, laughter all of it. Its here and now. Dreamers are waiting to be enlightened. Enlightenment is now because only now exists. There's no beginning and no end only the eternal now.

I understand the message you're trying to relay here. What, you're missing though (but not really), is delusion is not really the case, only appears to be. No one is saved from another's teaching. It only appears that way. You're also doing what you're saying others are doing. You see or hear words, create an idea in your mind about people being deluded and now you're convinced there are deluded people and this pains you to see. Pains you to see is just a thought also that came with an image and you owned that thought and image to be yours. I've been where you are. Thinking people are being deluded and are seeking for what's Infront of them and blah blah blah. That's also what's appearing to happen. It is still the case. Not saying it's right, wrong or indifferent; just saying it is what is; and it's all just an appearance. Even my flacking your flacking is what's happening. There's nothing you can say about this that's not appearing and whatever is appearing is "Truth", even the reading of your message by everyone - that's the experience. You said truth isn't found in words but experience. What you're failing to recognize is the experience, in this case, was in the reading of your words. This cannot be escaped and there are no right ways or wrong ways but only in the dream of separation which isn't really happening anyway, so deluded people that pains you to see is also delusion, but not really, only appears to be.

You have also put a limitation on God. You have limited God's ability to imagine misinterpreting the solipsism view. God can imagine anything even imagine that it's the only conscious experience occurring or that it has misconstrued ideas about solipsism.

Why don't we then not have a forum where people can express themselves on open topics and have discussions. This is very presumptuous of you to be saying as if the topic at hand needs to only be discussed if you are equipped. Equipped how, equipped with what, knowledge. How are you so sure that what you're saying is the case. Maybe it is, but it could also not be. Everyone understands that this is a forum and that opinions and personal insights and ideas expressed are only that of the person making them and should be treated as such and not necessarily to be the case. It is in the guidelines. What makes you so equipped to be the one to know about solipsism and the rest not. This is not a school where we have to be right in everything said or we fail the grade, it's a forum for discussions, and as long as one isn't giving out information that is definitely harmful without advisories, then all should be allowed to respectfully express themselves on any allowed topic. Saying it can damage many unstable people to say what is being said is a judgement call that should be overviewed by the administration as whether to allow this topic to be of discussion at all. It is not for the members to have to weigh what expressions might damage the mentally challenged because one has to be equipped to have a full understanding of how mental illness works and what topics may be detrimental to people in that category.

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