Princess Arabia

Makes a whole lot of sense to me. The dying of the spouse part, especially. I can see how that can be the case.

I don't agree with this. What you mentioned, except for depression and PTSD are physical ailments of the body. People will go through a physical ailment with more strength than a mental incapacitation. You mentioned depression; that can be caused from a feeling of loneliness. Many tines I've heard, especially men, say if they had the courage to they would kill themselves over not having a gf or an intimate partner. In fact, many probably do. The fact that it's been said indicates that it's probable that some have. Old people committing suicide is also on the rise because of loneliness. All their friends and family died off leaving them all alone. That's just one reason. I find people will fight their diseases quicker than to deal with the crippling effect of feeling lonely. That feeling usually comes after many attempts to avoid it and then the hopelessness kicks in after they've exhausted their attempts. People can still feel lonely being around others. It's because it's not the lack of others that's causing it, it's the mind's interpretation of what it's like to not feel lonely. When that's not met, people or no people will still bring on the effects.

That's like saying there's no difference between the apple and the core. It's just a limited way of looking at an apple. An apple is an apple and perception is perception. (This is existentially speaking). Of course, my perception is different from yours and I cannot see certain things with my limited mind. It's only appearing that way and the mind is appearing to be limited. There's no actual perception or limitations. What you see is what is. The body/chairs/walls/trees etc. That's it. Everything else is imagination.

It's all mumbo jumbo. Non-dual/awakening/enlightenment is just the Big Mac of mumbo jumbos.😛 I love to engage in super mumbo jumbos. Makes the mumbo jumbo worthwhile. Is that jumbo mumbo supersized enough. 😉😅

Funny

Even if this is the case, the human didn't make that choice. I do not get into these things either even though I've heard it before. We choose our parents, family, countries and life circumstances. Like you said, I don't know how true, so I refrain from reiterating those concepts or ideas. Who made that choice has nothing to do with the human. There are no humans in the after or before life saying I want to be born into this and that, and how do you know it's not the energy called choice (that we've named choice) that didn't choose this, if it's the case. You're only seeing things from the human perspective but to see beyond that we have to be able to see energetically.

Exactly, so this conversation is quite pointless because it's whatever we want to make it. Sometimes I wonder if you guys are really understanding what you're saying. "As real as we want to make it" is the same as nothing tangible there and forever changing. So, if that's the case, enlightenment is also as real as we want to make it.

There is only Awareness, with a capital A. You're speaking of awareness with a lower case "a". Awareness is also aware of the stupidities and whatever else you're referring to on the human level. Awareness can only be aware by it's nature. Which is ultimately who and what you truly are. Your true nature, Awareness, is aware of the body, mind, thoughts, objects, people and things etc. It is not concerned with Human's bullshit and dilemmas. You as the illusory human is. This is what it means to awaken to your true nature as Awareness. You might say, one cannot ignore the body and mind and the human form. Could you please find and locate that one. I'll be truly obliged to know.

This is key right here. You might not even realize how profound this statement is right here, but it is the main thing that woke me up, so-to-speak, from my slumber. There are no humans left behind. There are no disabled humans on the existential level - only appear to be. Only in appearance and to the mind. Only within the illusion of Maya. Only in the matrix. This is what it appears like. The energetic form. Yes, we live like this and form our reality from all this and put disabled people in nursing homes and treat them differently and the rest, but it's only the perceived form that appears disabled. No one is more disadvantaged than the other. Only in appearance. So enlightenment is not for the advantaged and "oh poor me" for the disabled. It is already the case even for them.

Yes, it happens. I agree. It's the mind's activity doing it, nonetheless. There's no separation from breakingthewall and mind.

Because you haven't understood the energetic nature of suffering. It's energy. There's no one actually suffering. You see, those kinds of questions that you asked will continue to come up when you don't realize there's no one there. Not in the sense that it's a robot or an empty shell but it's energy. All energetic patterns. A construction. Yes, choice, but it's not the human making the choice, choice is it's own "entity". It only seems as if you're the one making a choice. It's the choice energy at play. You choose the salad over the burger because of the construction. You might change your mind and go with the burger but it's also the construction of changing your mind at will that's at play.

So is caviar.

Mind. Of course it's difficult to drop all biases, labels, etcetc. Why try. It's the mind that wants to do these things and it's at war with itself. It created these things and now it wants to destroy them. It's only difficult because it's mind that wants to open mind, to destroy mind, it is fighting with itself. You will be dead once you achieve that openness. Are you sure you want to die. You don't, or you would be. All this trying to open up to existence is how you're staying alive. The mind that, is. It needs something to do. In your case, it has tricked you into believing what it's doing or trying to do is worthwhile because you see nothing else more worthwhile doing. It's the mind's clever way of keeping itself alive. It's your only barrier right now. You don't want to die. You don't want enlightenment. If you did, you wouldn't be trying to accomplish anything in this respect. You would let it go and let be.

You can either make life simple or complicated. That's the beauty of duality. You can either be present or live in the past and future. You can either listen to Gurus or the heart. You can try to open up the illusory existence or open up to who you truly are NOW. You can attach to the energy of suffering or allow it to be. You can either be human or the one aware of the human. It's endless what you can be or do. That's the freedom. Freedom to not be free is also freedom. Freedom doesn't mean the end of suffering because freedom is energetic and is also free to suffer.

Exactly. Bingo. I'm not the body. Go ahead and use the body for the mind's enlightenment thrills while I bask in what is - what doesn't need enlightenment.

Of course I was being a bit vague and facetious; point is, enlightenment if you want to call it that, is already the case. I look outside and i see the real nature of existence - without the mental chatter, that is. Straight up, raw and alive. Can't get any more open than that. Leave the mind alone...WALLA, you're open.

There is only NOW. Anything I want to be will only be from mind and it's quests. Yes, I want to be healthy, yes I want to have things to support myself and enjoy life and blah, blah. These are experiences within the NOW. Nothing tangible or can be held unto. Getting enlightened suggests something to hold unto. A state of being. Which is for the mind.

OK fine. This is possible to achieve with simple exercises. It is already the case, but the mind is what's stopping the recognition. Drop all labels and identifications NOW...WALLA....ENLIGHTENED. They come back, drop it again. Keep doing this until the state sticks. Still an experienced state. The one that doesn't need enlightenment or looking to get enlightened cannot know the difference because it is everything and cannot feel or know it's enlightened. That's where I'm practicing to stay at. Not at this human's level where it can say I'm being enlightened. It is not who I am, so why waste time there.

Your limited human mind is. Universal Mind is all there is. Dimensions of Awakenings are possible, yes, it's unlimited. So what, it's still just an experience the All will be having. I'm not downplaying experiences, just calling them out for what they are. It's the same as me living in a rundown house VS a mansion, or drinking cheap vodka VS the most expensive kind there is. You will call me audacious for saying this, but that's the mind making the distinction. To the Universal mind it's all the same.

Well, who is it that wants to become enlightened. It sure ain't God. Hehe. Nor the Aliens or the animals or the trees and the birds and the racoons or ants.

Yours what. Not sure what you mean by, "yours".

Loneliness has no biases and is not based on gender. It can take shape or form in any sex. Circumstances is what makes for more than the other. Also, how one sees feeling lonely. To me a better question would be how the respective sexes view the feeling of loneliness. It can attach itself to both sexes equally. Maybe more either way. Remember, it is fluid and not permanent, so it keeps on moving from person to person. It's a feeling that comes and goes. One can be married or in the company of others and still feel lonely or be by themselves and not feel lonely. I don't see it as a gender issue, but a response issue. How one responds to their life circumstances and the feelings that accompanies that. It is not easy to say which gender it affects more as the feeling of loneliness can be suppressed and can hide in many shapes in the form of distractions. Take away the distractions from either sex and you might find more from either sex raising their hands. It can be well hidden.

You have put meaning into no meaning. Words are simply that, words. Journal, simply that a journal. Sharing, simply that sharing. They are all energies being expressed. There's no one here to put meaning into energies or to stop the energy from taking shape or form. You keep thinking you're doing anything. It's only appearing that way. If I was to not do a journal and share my life experiences, that would also be what the energy is "not doing". We cannot escape what is. Your mind is trying to rationalize, control and manipulate what is, using thought. It means nothing to what's appearing. Just as I cannot stop you from saying what you just said, I cannot stop what is happening. I'm not here saying that if everything is empty and words mean nothing, then I should stop writing a journal. That's not what is happening; and even if it was the case, that would still be the case. We cannot escape Truth and Truth is exactly what's happening, even your comments and implications. There really is no such thing as Truth; only what is. Show me Truth and I'll show you what is.

Just so you're aware of my stance. I don't think I've got it, hence there's nothing to get. Mind you, I'm not referring to experiences and about life and existence and reality. I'm referring to anything you think that will get you somewhere you're not already. Life is an experience. The All experiencing itself as what it's not. It cannot know itself only be itself. So whatever is, is what the All is being. Sadghuru and Osho is the All experiencing itself as Sadghuru and Osho. Javfly is the All experiencing itself as Javfly etc. What is there to get. Even if you don't get what I'm saying, it doesn't matter because you're the All experiencing itself as Javfly who doesn't get what I'm saying. Anybody that doesn't come across these "teachings" or spirituality or didn't get enlightened or whatever, is the All also having that experience. That's what I mean by there's nothing to get.

Just so you guys are aware and from the comments, I'm not thinking I'm enlightened. I'm not interested in enlightenment. Enlightenment is for the birds. The mind. The mind that wants to be free of itself. Free of suffering. Free of it's own entrapment. All humans bleed red, will die someday, sleep, eat, defacate, and do worldly things. They invented the saying chop wood carry water because it was recognized that this enlightenment thing makes no difference to the human. It can still be entrapped within the mind. It will still be eating and shitting and carrying it's own weight. I don't care what anyone says on this. This is how I feel and will always feel. It's not because of anything. It's not something I know. I know nothing. There's a resonance. An openness. It's quite obvious to me and I'm not even thinking and feeling these things on my own. It's being done. You are free to say as you may and free to chase after what you please. Nothing you say will make a difference. Saying no one on this forum is enlightened is just a fucking thought. A thought that arose within your awareness and consciousness. It's empty and means nothing. So are these words.