Flyboy

I can only relate my personal experience, but I absolutely experienced very real damage from attempting a pharma-huasca trip with DMT and harmala powder purchased online. The DMT was very pure (I know where it came from) and I had smoked it previously with no issues. Whatever was in the harmala powder WAYYYYY overactivated my system (presumably my serotonin receptors) and left me FRIED. Psychedelics after that have been a disaster... LSD and shrooms attempts were total trainwrecks. Even at the six month point, the damage was very obvious. My approach has been to take 1 full year off from any drugs. I'm not quite done with my year, so I can't tell you if it's worked or not, but subjectively what I can feel in my sober state seems to have improved gradually. I supplement with Vinpocetine, Lion's Mane, Magnesium Threonate, Theanine, Curcumin, Ashwaganda, and occasionally some other nootropics. I've been eating lots of fruits (like blueberries), working out 5 times a week, and meditating daily for 1-2 hrs. I also work full time, play instruments, video games, and socialize. I think this is about the best we can do. It will be very hard for me if on my next trip attempt the damage is still there. But in some ways this has been good for me, as I have really deepened my meditation practice and learned the limitations of / attachment to tripping. Best of luck to you, I'm sorry you're going through this.

@Endangered-EGO Read more here: https://danielpostscompilation.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html#jump-to-157

Actually, he might have said that in one of his podcast interviews. But he definitely does say that somewhere. One suggestion... I'd focus on deep concentration work and use the Jhanas to cultivate bliss and very subtle insight. Could be a major source of relief, and also probably necessary to take insight further from where you're at. Jhanas can be really useful to reduce symptoms of the dark night and help integrate.

@Endangered-EGO I think you should keep going! You sound like you're making real progress, though you're probably in one of the hardest parts right now. Ingram says in MCTB that fundamental suffering gets worse as the path progresses due to increased sensitivity to it (as you're saying). Hence "Once started, better to finish!" Frank Yang noted that upon flipping to 4th path, suffering decreased by 99%. Ingram and others voice similar thoughts. Keep going, I believe it's possible. I can't fully comprehend it yet, but at the 4th path shift there's a kind of collapsing of the house of cards. Perception stops doing the automatic mirroring of subject out of object, and the "just this" is inescapable in every moment regardless of state or effort. I think that's as good as you're going to get in this life!

@Moksha Hang in there!! I've heard Ingram talk about 3rd path as the "dark night" of the macro process of awakening (which seems to roughly correlate to the I Am Nothing stage), and both Adya and Frank Yang describe the letting go of "God" as THE most difficult part of the whole path. But, they all say it is worth it. The night is darkest before the dawn... You are so close to freedom

The one thing I'll say is that Tarot cards tend to give fairly spiritual-level advice and/or food for contemplation. It can be helpful in the same way that a therapist asking questions is helpful -- you look into what is said and contemplate it deeply as it may or may not apply to your own life. Simply taking this frame, this viewpoint, can be very valuable in looking at your problems from a different or elevated perspective. That being said, the couple of readings I've done with careful and deep intention have been uncannily helpful; I would not discount the power of intention and the interconnectedness of the universe, there's more going on here than just physics.

@Moksha May I ask, have you moved beyond this "Nothing" stage? It seems like this is perhaps the last step before transcending all the stages and returning to the "natural state," as some call it. Would love to hear more about that process

I think it's most telling to recognize that even concepts, when taken to their extreme limit (as with CTMU), still "point" in the same direction as nonduality. This is obviously not the same thing as realization, but if you're a regular guy exploring your worldview and unsure if there's any "truth" to be found in nonduality, this is a nice hint. It's easy to forget that it takes a lot of "faith" to embark on the spiritual journey, which at the beginning can feel like it's just another rabbit trail into deluded territory (which admittedly is one of the huge benefits of psychedelics).

That's easy! A sensation

In addition to what The0Self said, I think you'll find that the path unfolds through many stages, layers, and deepening realizations. Once you're on it, you'll start to see this all happening and know you're going in the right direction. It's probably reasonable to assume that if you aren't sure if you're there, that you aren't there The Theravada maps can be helpful, but there's also much more intuitive ways of looking at it that might suit you better (Angelo DiLullo is a great resource for that angle).

I would also suggest that you consider doing the work to actually become enlightened and see through the illusion. While that won't help your survival either, it is the surest way to peace in this life. Collapse the duality between "life" and "God", and you can effectively end suffering permanently. No amount of life purpose or survival will do that. The psychedelics are just postcards of the mountain top. Climb the mountain!

I've said it before... but really recommend you read Seeing that Frees. While rooted in Buddhism, it's a wise and loving book that basically shows you how to release clinging, starting from the very gross to the very subtle. The end of the book will likely be way over your head until you're well down the path (it's over mine for now), but there is a tremendous amount of helpful material/exercises that can greatly break your attachment to illusion (and thus reduce suffering).

I'd caution you against equating Kundalini with enlightenment; this is a shallow understanding, I think. While I only have limited experience with Kundalini, from what I've experienced it is very physical. It absolutely seems intelligent (which is kind of amazing), and seems to cooperate with the quest to awaken. For example, minor Kundalini has helped me drill away at the physical identification of "self" in my bodily sensations. While it may have something to do with sharpening or elevating awareness (which can be a tool for deepening insight), Kundalini is not enlightenment, nor is a mystical experience induced by it. The insight into the nature of experience and existence, along with the gradual dissolution of all forms of identity--that is enlightenment That being said, I would not be surprised if the chakras "open" with some correlation to depth of insight. Equating the energy/yogic way of talking about enlightenment is tricky, but I imagine this is sort of what is going on. I personally shy away from the magical-ness of the yogic traditions because I don't find that language to be practically useful in figuring out how to proceed.

Also consider that it might be an issue related to a chakra blockage (most likely due to deeper unresolved issues). The sacral and solar plexus chakras generally have to do with creativity, sexual balance, control, and self-esteem. If you have "issues" in any of those categories, I'd spend some time focusing on working through them. In my experience, the chakras open AS the issues are resolved... focusing just on the chakra itself is sort of like hoping your sore muscle will stop hurting by putting ice on it - that's just relief, not a fix. Psychedelics CAN help you unravel your emotional issues more quickly if you use them properly, but it will also take lots of integration, contemplation, and daily practice to make a long-term change.

You probably should do your RESEARCH on these CHEMICALS, and perhaps they will come to you

Leo, I really think you are doing some story-telling about "baseline states of consciousness", "genetics", and "giftedness." The skills of meditation do take time to develop, and depending on how deep your conditionings are, there might be a lot of work to do before you're in some mystical Jhana. But the point here is that the mystical Jhana ISN'T the point. The point is shedding those conditionings--and meditation is one of the most effective tools to do that. The people that truly go all the way look back and say, "Holy crap, that had nothing to do with me or my body or my character at all." It's revealing when you say that there's no way your understanding would be what it is today---do you see that you're making the assumption that your UNDERSTANDING is the most important thing? This understanding is an egoic attachment. Leo, the little self, wants understanding and clings to it strongly. All of this is ultimately about your small-self ego, and while that's fine, it is not the true path. You are letting yourself get away with this by drawing a line between understanding and embodiment--no such line exists. @Consilience Thanks so much for sharing your journey, it's inspiring and truly an amazing example.

Well, all I can say is that from direct experience, the world starts looking really different the less solidified your ego is. Since the experience of reality is basically 1/Ego, I think you are underestimating what happens when you truly bring Ego down to zero. Psychedelics bypass that to give you your mystical states, but you're fooling yourself if you think those are the same thing as truly experiencing no-self at the level of fundamental mind. (But Flyboy, you're imagining all that! -- says the person who can't question that belief) Vipassana is just a tool. The whole idea is that it sharpens the senses enough to allow you to access the subtlest parts of the ego, like the fabrication of time, space, awareness, and realness itself. And even that isn't enough... it needs to be combined with extremely strong concentration at later stages to root out the deepest aspects of self. You literally have no idea what this will do from your current state of sensory perception. Until you do this work, I don't think you can speak with any authority whatsoever about what the Buddhists do or do not experience. Judging their words is nonsense. Have you not considered that the fact you haven't done this yourself makes your "insights" distorted? How do you know the ego is completely gone on your trips? How do you know you aren't seeing Absolute Truth THROUGH the ego? Your assumptions of real-ness just don't stand, and there's plenty of reason to question them.

@Adamq8 I totally get what you're saying, and don't get me wrong, I really appreciate a lot of Leo's work. But I have watched hundreds of his videos at this point, and also branched out to many other teachers. I've read many of the best books. I've made up my own mind and I've done/am doing the practices. Many thanks to Leo for getting me started on this journey! All of this has led me, however, to realize that Leo is limited in his approach and is missing, in my opinion, something important. While his teaching is conceptually juicy and appealing, I think it is important to point out these limitations for anyone who is truly interested in pursuing this work themselves. It took a lot of learning before I had the confidence to challenge him directly. But my own journey is progressing, the layers are shedding, and I'm starting to see first-hand what the meditators are talking about. Psychedelics are transcendent, to be sure, but there's no replacement for it being true for you now. I want people to find this peace, not just a really good high and a memory.

@Adamq8 I agree with most of that And I also think psychedelics are powerful tools. But I really recoil at Leo's movement into "I'm more enlightened than everyone else" territory, which I think is a road to delusion. Look at what has happened over the last few years: Genuine spiritual seeker→ →Repeated frustration and inability to make progress on the meditative/yoga path →Increasing use of psychedelics →Making outlandish claims of "more" infinity than anyone else →Creating a new level of enlightenment called God-realization to reify those claims and trump everyone else →Stubbornly defending those claims against valid criticism by ignoring it, demonizing it, or using a copout cover-all defense ("you're just imagining X") →Presupposing his own correctness and using that to discredit basically EVERYONE This progression is really sad to see. The self-bias and need to defend his brand and his "model" is becoming ever more obvious, in addition to the fact that Leo literally does not understand the nuance of the actual path to permanent realization (and has demonstrated this every time he talks about it). He's happy to do the "big work" but not the "small work". The small work is the roots of delusion and ego, and you will never kill the weed until you do the small work.

I disagree. I think the term liberation is most often used to describe the end of the insight path, which very specifically means when the knot of perception is unraveled and the nonduality of the 6 senses is undeniable in every single moment (4th path in Buddhism, Rigpa in Dzogchen, etc). It is almost always characterized by an irreversible and permanent change in perception. This is a very deep level of realization that transcends the lower levels of: I AM, I AM EVERYTHING, and I AM NOTHING. It is when reality "syncs" when all filters finally dissolve, leaving only what is. These filters and fabrications are still active on psychedelic trips, sorry to say, and in full force when you return. "God-realization" is still standing on a ground. What you're calling God-realization is in the I AM EVERYTHING stage, and on psychedelics it isn't even really that, because it's always a *finite conceptual* memory for you now. I'm sure it feels really grand, but you're still clinging, so it isn't IT. I think the trap you fall into is that this stage can go infinitely deep into "everything", making it feel more and more elevated, especially on powerful entheogens. True realization, however, transcends that by letting it go. You gotta accept this one day, Leo.

This part is wildly underestimated, I think. Once I finally started realizing the "flavor" of self-identification and was able to sense it in my body, I was astounded to realize it is absolutely everywhere, embedded in every inch of my sensation, thought, and feeling. You need to disidentify from all of this micron by micron. At the beginning it just feels like a little bit of sensation in the chest or head... but that's only because your sensitivity to self-ness is so low. The more subtle you get, the more you can sense and then burn through. There's a LOT of work here before you rest in "I am" (and even this is more like empty awareness, not really "I am", which itself is a thought). Initial awakening will occur when your identity finally shifts, and should be undeniable. This last part you have no control over, you must simply rest in emptiness and not knowing until it happens.

@FelixP Great find, this guy is very solid and genuine, and pretty far down the road as well.

It should plug, as the MAO enzyme that breaks it down is in the stomach, I believe. However, still expect a pretty short trip, the brain clears DMT very fast without an MAOI. HCL version is probably what you want. Another tip: sublingual harmalas (like 20mg) 10 minutes before smoking also results in a great experience with multiple rehits possible to move in and out of breakthrough. You can smoke for an hour+ this way if you want to.

People skip over the work part of this process too often. Ultimately, you want to dwell in the pure "I am" sense. But before you get there, you need to find EVERY sensation, thought, feeling, etc. that you identify with. It takes some practice to start recognizing "self-ness", but when you know what to look for, you will find it EVERYWHERE. Like in every part of your body, in your mind, your thoughts, your beliefs... there's a lot of work to do here before you are left with nothing but "I am". As you do this work though, the "subject" in your experience will start to hollow out and get thinner, wispier, less concrete. This will open a sense of spaciousness and freedom. Just remember, this is complementary to finely observing your sensations (vipassana). Vipassana works to de-reify the Objects in perception, while self-inquiry de-reifies the Subject. Both collapse eventually, but the clarity you develop through one helps take the other further.

I wish you could hear yourself talk. You are not at peace. That much is utterly and completely clear every time you speak. Do you feel that feeling you have when you write posts like this? That contracted, angry, twisted feeling where your inside voice is screaming "IIIIIII understand and THEY don't"? Maybe you should look at what that "I" is You are not enlightened Leo. Making up a new level beyond that and calling it "God realization" doesn't make up for the fact that you are not enlightened. Worse, you purposefully blinded yourself to what enlightenment really is. LEO wants to know and understand SO BAD out of some kind of deep unworthiness that Leo clings with incredible force to KNOWING. This path is not about knowing. And the little tautological trick you play about "being God and dreaming" is nothing short of foolish and quite stale at this point. Sorry brah. You'll never get there that way. I wish you peace, but you are moving in the direction of solidifying your identification, not seeing Truth. Good luck with that.