Flyboy

Frankly, Green is all about the feels. The equality, the compassion, the empathy, the environment, opportunity, fairness, humility. You really need to go mingle with lots of green people to understand where they're coming from on this stuff. Go hang out with hippies, go to Burning Man, go to cities like Seattle and Austin. Books aren't going to get you far in Green, IMO. Psychedelics will help a LOT if used well. Now, word of caution, I'd recommend simultaneously leveling up on Green AND Yellow. Green has some really ugly excesses that present in radical social justice warriors and Bernie Sanders style economics. These are not very healthy for you or for the world. Get to Yellow as fast as possible - multi-perspectivalism is the first time you are approaching real "freedom" of thought and development, and the first time you can really hold ideas without clinging to them. Also, for a perfect example of the "world" of Green values, watch Queen's Gambit. It is basically Green's wet dream for society. It also is a beautiful case study on Green's naivety.

My take is that it appears like a clever commercialization strategy. They got the catchy name, the "secret" mantra, the high priced course, the selling point differentiation of "you're comfortable and relaxed with cushions", and the claims that it works in 1 session. This is MARKETING 101. Basically, in some sense, it's a scam. Which isn't to say mantra meditation can't be a powerful form of concentration work... but there's so much more to becoming an expert meditator and reaching the higher states. There's no free lunch.

While I truly don't doubt this is the case in an ultimate sense, I'm trying to understand what Ingram's description of 4th path "is". It does sound, at least on a perceptual level, like a completion--like the point when the flickering nature of perception finally completely syncs and the codependent origination of awareness is fully obvious in everything--the closing of the universal ouroboros, if you will. I guess I'd really like to know the relationship between this "enlightenment" and other aspects of awakening. This does appear to be a permanent state for those who attain it, and they relate to being able to access all 8 Jhanas simultaneously. Frank Yang describes it as "more profound than all the drugs in the world put together." Perhaps hyperbole, but still, I'm just trying to understand and would love more perspective.

While this makes sense, and has been my running assumption since the beginning, it just seems like some people disagree. It's curious that some people (like Frank Yang / Daniel Ingram) will claim that the 4th path attainment is "complete/total." Can you explain why they are right or wrong in this regard?

@Moksha Frank Yang has been interesting to watch and try to understand. His descriptions of enlightenment (though chaotic in his video style) are very PhD level--at the highest levels he talks about even deconstructing Being vs Non-Being, God vs No-God. This is dizzying and I don't claim to understand how deconstruction works at this level. The claim, however, is that even direct experience, while our best tool, can still be very partial (such as the 5-MeO state, supposedly). Daniel Ingram also sort of seems to imply that all states are sensate experiences of some kind, while I had previously understood "direct experience" to be something totally outside of sensate experience.

Moksha, I hear what you're saying, and I understand ultimate reality is beyond concept and even experience. Yet, somehow "infinite consciousness" seems to be within the realm of at least peak states. I guess my disillusionment comes from the idea that even these "seemingly infinite" states are deconstructable, and that after doing so you are left with just the statement "Reality is neither ___ nor NOT ___" for any blank. This feels unsatisfying, as it applies even to God, the godhead, Nothingness, and consciousness itself. Kind of leaves me with the same big QUESTION MARK that I started this journey with. Also, how does 4th path enlightenment relate to realizations of various facets of enlightenment through contemplation / self-inquiry?

Also, at least in my experience, you will have very minimal effects at first. Kriya takes months to really start to build, and even after 7 months of daily practice I still haven't had a Kundalini awakening. Some days it feels close, and I certainly have experienced noticeable changes to my body's energetic system, vibrations, and enhanced meditation, but there is more to go. Keep at it and be patient. Personally, I'd also steer you to the Santata Gamana book over the big one, as it is more straightforward and direct.

Will you be sharing any of these DMT insights & experiences in the future? I'm personally very curious how 5-MeO prepared / altered your DMT experiences and what you take away from them. I've experienced the utterly infinite complexity of DMT, but often have struggled to feel love or understanding inside of it, usually coming away from these trips mostly just baffled and a little scared.

This book is one of the main sources Frank Yang recommends as well, it's on my shelf in queue

Ralston's Not Knowing & Pursuing Consciousness is the best single source, IMO, but other books will also help as you go deeper. I'm really enjoying Ruper Spira's Presence series, but it requires a pretty solid foundation (via Leo videos, Not Knowing, and others) to really get the most out of. I'd also really recommend listening to different people talk about enlightenment, as it will congeal it from different angles and perspectives. Anna Brown is a fantastic female perspective, Frank Yang is another (who has really taken it allll the way through meditation, though his videos are strange). Leo is the best source for putting it all together though and for integrating holistic understanding of the world with enlightenment implications. Reading, videos, contemplation, mindfulness, meditation, and psychedelics are all really complementary to building understanding. Do them all! And remain patient, it is a long and intricate journey of discovery, wisdom, and love.

Seconded. Well said.

Haha pretty cool! Loved it.

Let me know if you agree. I love this. It is Nothing, and yet is the thing itself, with no separation.

I have a question for @Leo Gura or others that has arisen from some deep meditation and contemplation, which relates to the ability to consciously choose. Can we truly choose from the "command level" of our consciousness? I ask because I have struggled to do so. I have encountered points in meditation where it feels like I am at the door of going somewhere very deep, but in order to do so I would have to truly let go of my ego and fear. At these moments, I say "YES, I CHOOSE TO LET GO" and try to feel that as deeply as I can. And yet, I can tell that this "command level" choice isn't accepted to the depths of my being. I know it's the choice I must make, and I want to make it, yet somehow I cannot convince these inner depths to follow the choice I wish to consciously make. They refuse to let go. I have sat with this for some time, like a knot, and still struggle to understand how to do something if we can't choose to do it. I feel this question is paramount in going deeper with both meditation and psychedelics, and would love to hear anyone's perspective on it!

This is profoundly not helpful. I already understand the "absolute sense" of infinite causality and thus the apparent illusion of free will and choice. Pragmatically, what you're saying doesn't help. It's just preaching nihilism (and thus is false around the inflection point of the present moment--in other words maybe this moment could be no other way, but holding the attitude that future moments can be no other way and therefore don't merit attention or effort is in itself portending that result by creating that nihilistic condition of mind). Please don't respond with nonduality riddles in the effort to sound like a master. That's not what I'm looking for.

I'm trying to do exactly that - to just be, in the present, absent thought or ego or control or desire. As the doorway approaches, it's clear that this "letting go" needs to be complete, and it isn't. How do I make it complete without the ability to consciously choose to do so?

Hmmm, I think that is sort of dancing around the question. I'm asking something relatively profound... Our mind has many layers of hierarchy to it (you can experience this very clearly on psychedelics), and exploring this aspect of mind relative to making choices is very interesting and probably essential in fully choosing something with the core of your being. I'm asking how to get the deepest layers of your mind to choose "with" you.

Hahahaha I loved that.

One thing I've learned is that perfection is not required when it comes to the Kriya techniques. Just do your best, the results will still come. That being said, I would use the "big" book mostly for educational purposes. Gamana's book is much more straightforward and simple to use, and the exercises are very powerful. This is hard stuff though, it will take months of practice to start to really feel the energy awakening, and I'm still unsure where it leads after that. Good luck.

Just goes to show that this is hard/deep work and only a small percentage actually stick with it. Still, 50k people opening their minds to this material is doing a LOT for the world. Leo should be very proud of that. I'm very grateful for the tremendous amount of work he has done and hopefully will continue to do.

Leo, in your personal life, how have you dealt with spiritual ego? I imagine that as you grow and grow and grow, you start to see virtually the entire world as many steps below you, which is especially hard when they are crude and insulting and unappreciative. How do you avoid letting your ego attach itself to this sense of elevated understanding and development?

Just to push back on this, I had a professor in school who was deeply involved with water treatment in civil engineering for a number of years. She said she would NEVER drink bottled water, as it contains far more impurities than tap water, and that tap water is some of the cleanest water you can drink. Whether or not that is true, I think it is specious to ascribe poor American health to things like tap water; the number of other possible culprits is too vast and nuanced. While of course it doesn't hurt to filter your water and use organic toothpaste, I also think that is a personal choice that is closer to superstition than undeniable fact.

Did this happen meditating with eyes open? Closed? I've kind of struggled wondering whether it is easier to retain focus on awareness with eyes open or closed, and at the same time I don't want to be overly focused on trying to make something visual "happen" as direct consciousness isn't really about perception. Still, since I haven't experienced that yet, I don't really know what to even look for or understand how it changes perception.

Well he also did about 5 million Ayahuasca trips, if you read his book, as well as a LOT of Salvia. His entire energetic awakening experience is so bizarre that it's pretty hard to wrap my head around what happened to him and IF that sort of thing is even something desirable. Unlike Leo, who has done an immeasurable amount of learning and inner work in addition to psychedelics, Martin still appears (even fully enlightened) to be far from actualized. That is my impression after reading Becoming Infinite, anyway.

In the halls of eternity, in one moment God itself asked the great question, "Who am I?" It was thus that God awakened to the TRUTH, that it was in fact Chuck Norris.