lina

UN resolution vote against illegal settlements on occupied territories. Is there anybody here who still thinks the US and Israel were ever serious about the 2 state solution?

I understand your point, but I still think this wishful thinking. The situation in the west bank is enough to check Israel's intentions. Also, the percentage of Palestinians who were open to the idea of peace with Israel will probably go down to zero by now.

Israel on the other hand has been actively eating up all Palestinian territories, isn't illegal occupation a reason to declare war? What do you suggest the Palestinians should do? do you expect them to just tie their hands and watch Israel taking their lands piece by piece? Sure, war is war and war is justifiable in some cases, but only in self-defense. Israel's is not entitled for this position, therefore, waging a war will never ever solve this problem. Even if they managed to exterminate Gaza, the reputation and image of this country and its citizens will be covered in blood for ages to come, I don't think this is a good for Israelis or Jews worldwide.

I just find it strange how a lot of people here try to rationalize everything to justify the blatant destruction and slaughtering that is happening. Literally all crimes one could think of could be "rationalized", does that make it okay to commit crimes?

I think you're still disregarding the core cause of the conflict. The hatred of Jewish people amongst the Arab & Muslim world was and has been a result of Israel's atrocities, and how their entire region got destabilized since its creation. Which is terrible especially that a considerable number of Jewish people are not even Zionists.

The opposite is true. There's a reason why all Arab leaders are dictators.

The Arab funded leadership* is not the Arab world.

I know both sides made mistakes. But the point is that one side started this cycle by establishing a state on an illegitimate, weak and unsustainable foundation, which will always need to resort to violence to ensure it's survival. This is not good for both the Palestinians and the Israelis.

Because this IS the core problem that started all cycle of violence, mistakes and hate from both sides. You can try to convince all the people you want that there are other nuances to focus on, and how "complex" the issue is. When you keep insisting on dismissing the core Palestinian point of view, this conflict will never end.

Zionism = creation of Jewish nationalist homeland. This is not possible without displacing the Arab majority. If the displacement happened only because of the war, why couldn't Palestinians return to their houses after the war ended? why isn't Israel allowing the return of Palestinian refugees now? Why Israel is not advocating for the one-state solution that would allow the return of Palestinian refugees and live with Jews all together in the same country? There a lot of Palestinians who couldn't care less and unresponsible for the decisions of the Arab leaders, they just want to live in their own home and farm their own lands, why can't they go back? https://www.nature.com/articles/147413b0#:~:text=The Jews now represent 31.2,British occupation%2C it was 11.1. In 1922 Jewish population was only 11.1%, in 1931 was 16.9%, in 1940 31.2%. They were still a minority in the country and the UN proposed over half of the land with the best areas that include the sea port and some of the most fertile areas Jezreel valley. Even if they became the majority, from the Palestinians eyes they were all European refugee settlers coming to take their land, that's their perception and that's why rejected. There was a native population residing in the region that is identified as Palestine/Israel for centuries. These people are 100% the owners and indigenous to the area, and they self identify as Palestinians. This makes them entitled to their sovereignty, not Britain and not European Jewish refugees. Also, we are talking about a time when colonialism was no longer an acceptable thing. All surrounding countries were seeking their liberation. why shouldn't Palestinians do the same? You have to distinguish between settler colonialism and colonialism. The Ottoman, Arab and British rule were all a form of colonialism, they ruled over the region but they didn't import settlers and displaced the natives. There might have been some form of natural immigration, but that is still very different from the deliberate displacement of an entire nation. The historical connection European Jews has to their region is irrelevant. Having historical connection does not equate to having actual rights of ownership and sovereignty. Can African Americans go back to African countries nowadays and establish an African-American state over the cost of the current natives? Can Moorish people in Morocco go back to Spain and re-establish their lost empire? Well, you might say Syrians have nowhere to go either. The answer it's just not the Palestinians' responsibility. It was the duty of countries that persecuted the Jewish people to create a safe haven for them in their OWN lands, not on someone else's land. Palestinians had no issue in receiving some Jewish refugees, the conflict started when the refugees numbers skyrocketed and Zionism took advantage of that situation to establish their ethno-nationalist dream state.

The Arabs opposed the creation of Israel and started the war because the partition plan was unfair as Palestinians would get displaced and lose their homes. That's what happens when you create an ethno-nationalist state, you have to displace people to create the Jewish majority. Not to mention that that lands assigned were the most fertile ones with Arab majority, and the it violated the UN Charter. Creating an ethno-nationalist state on a land that had people is settler colonialism. Imagine Syrian refugees in Europe try to establish an Islamic state in Europe that includes mostly Muslims to create the majority, how would that sound? Look up information on actual human rights organizations. Pro-zionist propaganda is not a balanced way to search the conflict.

Palestinians did get their lands and properties stolen with the help of UK. Listen to actual Palestinian people stories, a lot of them literally still have their house key in the hope of returning! The forcible transfer happened by all different tactics, some were literally kicked out, some ran off for their lives after receiving threats and witnessing massacres in the villages, some left temporarily escaping war but thought after war they can return, others were forced to sell their lands after the british mandate increased the taxing. Check out the Nakba https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/ "the permanent displacement of more than half of the Palestinian population." what happened to these people? some became stateless & scattered in refugee camps, others are exiled as refugees worldwide, and the rest are in Gaza, the open air prison where the war is happening right now. Also some of the good documentaries :1948 creation and catastrophe

If a conflict lasted almost a century and still no solution has been reached, plus triggering a WW3, the wisest thing to do might be to allow a non biased external intervention to enforce the most fair solution for both sides. Maybe disarm both sides and ban all gun use. It will take a very long time, but with reparations and time the hate between two sides has a chance to subside. I think it's very expected that a lot in both sides would say they don't want this solution, but both sides are blinded by trauma and hate, not the best mindset to make decisions for future generations. As for the democracy part and elections, maybe it would be best to prevent the participation of any religious or extremist parties, so the candidate pool would only include secular, moderate and balanced individuals. I think the only reason it's a difficult and almost impossible solution is because Israel and the western powers don't want this. Israeli gov wants to remain a Jewish majority, protect their ethno-nationalist settler project and induce a democracy that only fits their agenda.

Doing mental gymnastics to divert the attention away from the core problem which is as he said : "...ethno-nationalist settler colonial ideology, in continuation of decades of their systematic persecution and purging.." will not help anyone.

Resignation letter from the Director of New York Office of the UN High Commissioner of Human Rights + his view as a lawyer and specialist in international human rights law on how to move forward: https://aurdip.org/en/resignation-letter-from-the-director-of-new-york-office-of-un-high-commissioner-of-human-rights/ Legitimate action: First, we in the UN must abandon the failed (and largely disingenuous) Oslo paradigm, its illusory two-state solution, its impotent and complicit Quartet, and its subjugation of international law to the dictates of presumed political expediency. Our positions must be unapologetically based on international human rights and international law. Clarity of Vision: We must stop the pretense that this is simply a conflict over land or religion between two warring parties and admit the reality of the situation in which a disproportionately powerful state is colonizing, persecuting, and dispossessing an indigenous population on the basis of their ethnicity. One State based on human rights: We must support the establishment of a single, democratic, secular state in all of historic Palestine, with equal rights for Christians, Muslims, and Jews, and, therefore, the dismantling of the deeply racist, settler-colonial project and an end to apartheid across the land. Fighting Apartheid: We must redirect all UN efforts and resources to the struggle against apartheid, just as we did for South Africa in the 1970s, 80s, and early 90s. Return and Compensation: We must reaffirm and insist on the right to return and full compensation for all Palestinians and their families currently living in the occupied territories, in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and in the diaspora across the globe. Truth and Justice: We must call for a transitional justice process, making full use of decades of accumulated UN investigations, enquiries, and reports, to document the truth, and to ensure accountability for all perpetrators, redress for all victims, and remedies for documented injustices. Protection: We must press for the deployment of a well-resourced and strongly mandated UN protection force with a sustained mandate to protect civilians from the river to the sea. Disarmament: We must advocate for the removal and destruction of Israel’s massive stockpiles of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, lest the conflict lead to the total destruction of the region and, possibly, beyond. Mediation: We must recognize that the US and other western powers are in fact not credible mediators, but rather actual parties to the conflict who are complicit with Israel in the violation of Palestinian rights, and we must engage them as such. Solidarity: We must open our doors (and the doors of the SG) wide to the legions of Palestinian, Israeli, Jewish, Muslim, and Christian human rights defenders who are standing in solidarity with the people of Palestine and their human rights and stop the unconstrained flow of Israel lobbyists to the offices of UN leaders, where they advocate for continued war, persecution, apartheid, and impunity, and smear our human rights defenders for their principled defense of Palestinian rights.

From the start establishing a Zionist state on a land that had people was a terrible idea. Having historical connection to a region, does not equate having actual rights of ownership and sovereignty to it. Such claims will never make sense to the Palestinians nor should it. Israel is already a reality that can't be changed now, but acknowledging its colonialist nature is the first step to move forward. They entered the region as refugees. Refugees can integrate with the existing society, work, purchase real estate and so on. But they don't have the right to take over lands, terrorize, push civilians away, divide the country and establish an ethno-nationalist state over the cost of the existing natives. That's a recipe for a never-ending conflict. https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/ Some examples include Deir Yassin, Tantura, Qibya and Kafr Qasim massaccre Israel has no issue in targeting civilians. It should be clear by now. The human shield thing even if it was true, is not even a justification. That's the opinion of several human rights organizations, look up Amnesty reports on this issue.

I haven't been able to focus or sleep well since the start of this conflict. The amount of injustice that is being inflicted on Palestinian civilians is making me sick to my stomach. The world's silence is making me lose faith in humanity. It's like we are watching history repeating itself all over again. This complete dehumanization of Palestinians is just sickening. I feel helpless and broken watching fellow humans, children and families living in hell at this moment waiting to die. Generation after generation they have been standing still hoping someday this occupation will come to an end. But it seems like the world has given up on them, while cheering Israel to annihilate them. I genuinely don't know how to cope with this amount of injustice. I want to help them, but I don't know how to. The border is closed from Egypt as Israel has bombed it multiple times. So, I am not sure if any aid is actually making it's way to civilians. What can we do as HUMANS to help?

I think you should start by searching and gathering information about this. It's everything. From justifying colonialism, loss of lands and properties, the Nakba (s), uncountable number of massacres, bombing civilians, apartheid, siege, illegal settlements, terrorist settlers....etc.

I personally don't think peace would be possible before Israel acknowledging FIRST the atrocities it committed (and still) committing against Palestinians and take first solid steps to towards reparations, you have to address the people first before their leadership or else another Hamas will evolve.

But the problem nothing actually happens and the government itself even supports them with weapons. Since Israel is a democratic nation, I think more Israelis must start taking action to voice their objection regarding what is happening in the west bank and east Jerusalem if they truly want to create path for peace.

It seems that what Israel wants but Palestinians don't want to leave their land because they are worried it will be another Nakba.

#2 Meanwhile in the west bank: https://twitter.com/YehudaShaul/status/1718273191376756973 As we speak, the community of Khirbet Zanuta (South Hebron Hills) is packing up their village and leaving their lands as a result of settler terrorism. Forcible transfer is taking place in front of our eyes and yet we remain silent. Systematic ethnic cleansing is a standard Israeli gov practice and will continue on regardless they eradicate Hamas or not.

If after all that's happening you still can't see how the Israeli gov. have 0 regard for human lives, then I don't think you're exposed to the Palestinian reality that is shown through their in ground media with actual footage and personal reports, maybe try to look at the other side for just a minute.

https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1717941506848272627 #BREAKING: Israeli air strikes target more residential properties leaving them with no power or internet in Gaza forms of communication are being cut off..!