lina

https://x.com/Channel4News/status/1856693525238136909 A former NHS surgeon, who spent a month working in southern Gaza, testifying about children in Gaza being shot by drones.

It's like trying to escape an abusive family by making a deal with and trusting in another devil.. Sadly, it has been a repetitive theme though so it's quite believable that some really fall for it.

That's actually sad and alarming. Short-sighted liberals always fall for this trap. If they are so liberal minded then they better start reading some history.

Very difficult footage to see but citizen media must be highlighted - Bombing civilian tents and burning people alive has been an acceptable practice according to the IDF. https://www.instagram.com/p/DBFUaddoqbf/?hl=en https://www.instagram.com/p/DBEas7AgOuK/

I think one important thing that must be highlighted is that most of the archives and records related to Palestine has either been destroyed or hidden by the Israeli military. With all that has been shared on this thread and history books, there is still more that will remain unknown. "Of the roughly 14.8 million files kept by the Israeli State Archives and the IDF, no more than 191,204 are accessible for public consultation, the equivalent of 1.29%" Source: https://www.akevot.org.il/en/news-item/1-29-state-access-israeli-government-archives/ https://merip.org/2019/09/israels-vanishing-files-archival-deception-and-paper-trails/

This channel has some high quality conversations regarding the conflict. I think every Israeli with an open mind and heart must listen to them.

Nobody is denying the existence of Islamisim or Islamic extremism, but trying paint the Palestinian behavior entirely in this light, is not only irrelevant but is also nothing but a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire conflict. The early resistance was secular and they were also painted as terrorists. After almost 80 years, maybe it's time to take a step back and actually question why these people have been resorting to all different types of resistance, instead of dehumanizing them ? Or, maybe after the death of almost 50,000 or god knows how many, it's time to stop giving excuses/rationalization to the ones who have the power to change the situation - no matter how right or wrong they are?

Canada, USA and Australia were all settlers colonies that had no right to exist either. The difference here is that these countries have finally given citizenship to the local population and are no longer actively trying to genocide them. That was something in the past that cannot be changed. On the other hand, Israel at the moment is actively committing a genocide and is still denying the right of return for the local population. See the difference? Israel started as a settler colony at a time most people were fighting for liberation, it was just too late for them to join their other settler friends.

It has nothing to do with Jews or non Jews. it very simple you can't displace people from their homes under any circumstances. 2 wrongs don't make a right. No solution will ever be reached if Zionists don't acknowledge the destruction and violence they caused when they started their project. One they acknowledge this there will be a chance for actual peace. The problem here is the insistance of denial.

That's not the official standing for most of Israeli politicians anymore, including Benny Gantz who voted in favor and Yair Lapid who skipped it. Israel's Knesset votes overwhelmingly against Palestinian statehood as Netanyahu prepares for U.S. visit Palestinians have officially no partners for peace, before it was under the table with the nonstop settlements but now they are upfront. It's clear most support the war. The matter of conflict seems to be the case of prioritizing rescuing the hostages first (but they are free to continue the war afterwards).

I guess those following points should not be open for debate anymore: Israel should evacuate settlements, pay reparations, ICJ says World Court Finds Israel Responsible for Apartheid

You're still glossing over the fact that it's Israel who cornered Palestinians into a situation in which the only type of resistance or armed forces they get is represented by small groups; whom due to their incapability, resort to guerilla warfare tactics. The ethics of guerilla warfare has always been a matter of debate as there is no limit to their tactics. It changes according to each situation, conflict, culture...etc. That's why, even if the Serbia example is true, it still misses the big picture. Their main survival tactic is focused on avoiding head-on confrontations with their enemy, again because of their inferior arms and forces . In the case of Hamas, that's where you see them prioritizing their survival over the Gazan population, or hiding hostages among civilians. Their goal is to resist under all circumstances to force the enemy to withdraw. If Palestinians have their own state and own army, they will be able to protect their civilians, they wouldn't need to carry out chaotic attacks that kills both civilians and combatants, nor would they ever need to take civilian hostages. They would get the privilege to engage in an organized, symmetric and ethical warfare and that is what precisely Israel doesn't want.

Sadly nothing in the horizon as long as people like Netanyahu are allowed to remain in power. I appreciate you acknowledging this.. Hearing some of those Ben Gurion lines, or even worse those religious fanatics who call for Greater Israel from Nile to Euphrates would make any Palestinian or Arab unlikely to agree to any of this in the beginning. Even if Ben Gurion was just a far-right voice and not a representative of all Jewish people but he was still the main rep and leader of the country at its creation. I agree with you here.

If you want to make progress in peace, one must at least acknowledge its past mistakes as a first step, not lie, gaslight and manipulate.

The missing point is that Zionism as a movement has always had expansionist ambitions from the very start whether Palestinians accepted it or not. In the words of Ben Gurion, the primary national founder of the state of Israel: "After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “— Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan. “The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan 27 July 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in a letter to his 16 year old son Amos: “We have never wanted to dispossess the Arabs [but] because Britain is giving them part of the country which had been promised to us, it is fair that the Arabs in our state be transferred to the Arab portion” 5 October 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in a letter to his 16 year old son Amos: “We must expel the Arabs and take their places…. And, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places- then we have force at our disposal.” “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.' “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech. So please tell me , if you were a Palestinian during 1948 and you knew that's how Zionist leaders think (not necessarily all Jewish people), would you agree to the partition plan?

Ummm but it's Israel that is preventing Palestinians from having their own state and own recognized army so they can protect their citizens..did you forget this I wonder 🤔 That's like breaking someone's leg then blaming them for attempting to walk if they trip.

https://x.com/Hind_Gaza/status/1799443309556834641 Supremacism in a nutshell.

I didn't say that. I am referring to the cartoonishly evil stories that painted Hamas as dark ages barbarians or ISIS-like. Also Israel updated the number of the victims according to this article : "695 Israeli civilians, including 36 children, as well as 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139." https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231215-israel-social-security-data-reveals-true-picture-of-oct-7-deaths

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/04/03/40-beheaded-babies-the-itinerary-of-a-rumor-at-the-heart-of-the-information-battle-between-israel-and-hamas_6667274_8.html

The point is the ethnic cleansing or at least largely decrease the number if its population, so slowly it would diminish on it's own and Gazans choose to leave willingly.

Most Gazans now lost their homes and are living in tents. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/some-70-of-gaza-homes-damaged-or-destroyed-wall-street-journal-analysis/ That report was 5 months ago I wonder what's left of Gaza at the moment.

as @Karmadhimentioned bombing everywhere is not much different than killing everyone in sight, it just a more privileged type of violence and I would say even more dangerous because it disconnects the person from the act of killing and normalizes it. BTW they're still continuing with bombing the tents and killed another 20 civilians regardless of the global outcry. https://x.com/EyeonPalestine/status/1795450967602643029 https://x.com/hzomlot/status/1795452061028319554 https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1795435454478549305 Furthermore the cartoonishly evil image of Hamas in the media, things like the beheadings, systematic mass rape or even killing anyone in sight all have been proven to be myths to gain global support for the war. They're evil for other reasons but not for their portrayed image in the media. When speaking about a group like ISIS you can use the example you mentioned that they're extremely barbaric and would kill anyone in sight. Hamas on the other hand did kill some people and tried to get hostages in order to achieve a political goal, but not merely out of a bloodlust or to establish dominance like ISIS would do for ex.

@Inliytened1 @Leo Gura not the attack itself but the mass civilian killing. Regardless of their SD, there is still no equivalence here because one side has been oppressing the other. One side is resisting the unjust status-quo and the other in their head is defending but in that defense they end up becoming the aggressor again and again. Could it be worse? Sure yes but slow and discreet violence should not be underestimated either. Also, killing every civilian in sight will not be good for their PR.