AtheisticNonduality

Not Infinity of Gods? You should just read SES so you actually know it, but it's around 600 pages long and 800 including the notes section. Like Blue and Red, with the lower and higher extremes of each being bluer or redder purple, as I say. But for specificity, Yellow becomes obsolete when the frailty of the system is seen through in addition to going beyond faults of over-reliance on understanding the system itself and ignorance of the realms where focusing on the Nothingness and Everythingness is the soul both above and within the system, so after these transcendences, one has to attain realms totally outside the system. Moving away from even the system itself, at least temporarily to explore the new realms before integrating both into a greater essence, is then a priority. (Leo is) Ken's average Turquoise. But bordering on Yellow. Yet still some Indigo with Violet intuitions, as perverted by stability in a regular Turquoise base and with a strong foundation in Yellow systems ideas. Most people's developments are asymmetrical to a good degree, although centers of gravity still exist, his being a solid Turquoise/Yellow. Transpersonal: beyond personal, Nothingness, Everythingness, divinity, mystical states. Prepersonal: before personal, animals, plants, rocks, etc. Personal: standard human based in an ego and other objective traits of personhood, has evolved out of the prepersonal structurally but has not gone outside of the system into what is beyond the limits of the human mind/body. So no, not just Fe. Nope, not Orange with Blue shadow or overly amplified Blue. I was too Green and anti-capitalistic at one point for me to be Orange now. You just happen to be Green and see anything your critiquing without the limits of Green as inherently beneath you, which is logically a failure. No, the lower people interpret them literally. The higher people interpret them how they actually exist. What should we rely on to comprehend the belief systems of primitive peoples, if not those peoples? The "original being" of the tribe? How do we contact this original being? And the materially advanced civilizations suffer from the same belief issues as the primitives, if we abstain from identifying them with primitives entirely. The accuracy/completeness of the primitive models is unacceptable. Being inspired by mystical prose to test spiritual virility in medieval combat is still nested in a society developmentally inferior to ours, however romantically profound and stimulating it might suggest itself as. Is that so? You hate modernity, and that's why you uphold pre-modernity, simultaneously despite and because of your postmodernity. Of course. Also, Keyholde/Loba called me "blue boy" and revealed her whole criticism of my character was centered around teenage girl sociology. ?‍??‍??‍??‍?

I know. Walking and biking should be used for short distances and self-driving cars, private or public, for longer distances. Having train passages cutting through, over, and under cities all over the place is a good way to make what would seem like a nightmare, but it actually makes sense to orient society away from cars to an extent because of how cluttering and polluting they are; but still, much of that can be taken care of by designing cities for walking and biking through compacting tall residential buildings in close proximity to truly needed buildings, as opposed to a labyrinth of cars going by where access to anything is tiring.

The original SD model did not overly spiritualize Turquoise like Leo did, and Leo has even stated his understanding when making the Turquoise video was shallower than his current depth about it and not very adequate of a description. Turquoise just refers to holism, where the entire universe and experience becomes like a flexible and flowing organism of force and energy. This builds on top of the Teal/Yellow formulation of systems and integral parts, but it goes a step further by expanding the holistic essence of and identifying with it all, seeing all the systemic patterns come together into one whole pattern. The higher transpersonal stages, on the other hand, are mapped by Wilber using evidence and reason in SES, with case studies and showing the logic behind how one moves from different stages to others. Any particular reason that'd be on your mind recently? ?‍??‍??‍??‍??‍??‍??‍??‍??‍??‍??‍??‍? Well, Jesus toppled the tables where the currency swappers had set up in the temple and chased them all out with a scourge, yet he also refused to fight the officers when he was about to get arrested, healing the wound Peter had inflicted on one of them. So he had anger with proper timing, instead of being overwhelmed by it all the time. As for Gandhi, he only slept in the same bed as children to defy temptation, at least that having been his intention. Probably low Turquoise hinted at, but I have access to the transpersonal states.

I actually understand this reference.

I thought I was supposed to be blocked!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! But it's okay. Anyway, I don't have anything against you. It's just that your style of communication can rub people the wrong way, meaning it's not coincidental that you have people arguing with you incessantly. You're an interesting person.

@DocWatts Unrelated (mostly) except through title, but process-relational philosophy reminds of the Process collective.

You are Stage Green that has unhealthily integrated Blue due to your copious multifariousness of mind, whereas I have different lines developed in multiplicitous fashion; however I could surmise it like this: I have attained "Indigo" transpersonal waves, have a sense of Turquoise as a whole force of one's perception, though am often lost in Teal systematizations. I also have properly integrated Green understanding of other perspectives (while not pathologically worshipping them and refusing to hierarchize them competently), an Orange success / objective achievement as a drive, a Blue deontology, a Red aggressiveness, and a Purple fascination with lost aspects of reality and occult backgrounds. Facepalming does not induce brain damage, but the act, the cause which spawns the effect of the facepalm, also causes facepalming. This means facepalming and brain damage are siblings, both under the creation of reading your posts. The metaphysicality of it was purely a conscious elaboration; the individuation of their egos had unconscious elements to it. It also did integrate them into societies. These are actions that actually happened, even if the unconsciousness of more primitive peoples would not allow for it. Also, there are no gods. There are beings out there and in here, but none of them are gods. It's strange you can't understand this; wait, actually it's not. I apologize. Actually. Not sarcastically. Really. Fascism, communism, liberal democracy, their variants, and brute power / finance are all superior to tribal warfare and imperial / dynastic / kingly battles in ancient or medieval times. This is just silly. So you were pointing it out for literally no reason, or for its own sake, rather than for cogency. This is unhealthy worship of false / less true perspectives. No, one is before modern and the other is after. That is their similarity. Their similarity does not arise as their difference because that is contradictory hogwash; their similarity and difference show up together because all things have similarities and differences. However, there is not a useful connection to be made here, except the one that you are a postmodernist parroting pre-modern beliefs because you are against modernity, which is based on similarity rather than the differentiation, abstracted from the similarly positioned differences as structures, postmodernism made. You are a postmodernist.

Where though? I don't see it.

I love lightning illuminating the sky because it's beautiful, and I love extraordinarily loud thunder because it's sublime. The sublimity especially allows connection with nature, so perhaps you could emphasize more positive possibilities or aspects of it.

They serve a function of actual fact for "primitive" people but are metaphorical for modern people, so the archetypes may be misinterpreted by the primitives for sure since they have no need to understand the display their minds are met with.

@Oeaohoo ????? You again with your Stage Blue undevelopments . . . ???????????? Well, how do I put this? The gods aren't real. They exist archetypically and in the collective unconscious. THEY ARE NOT REAL. To what modern ideologies are you referring, and how are they more incorrect than mythological beings? Through understanding the gods are not real, at least the gods you refer to. There are beings out there though. And in here. And you were criticizing postmodernism in this post???? The denial of truth and the modern conception of "actual fact" is a postmodernist obfuscating factor of abstraction with present day rampancy. You are Stage Green parroting the multiplicity and cultural foundations of Stage Blue myths and civilizational ideologies. And how does the modernity of metaphorical and factual actuality become illegitimate through the discovery that it is modern, rather than based in pre-logical absurdity.

RIP all her posts. They are still at concrete-operational. Actually, this is completely right. It's so much wasted creativity and energy turned into uncreative stasis. You know, I think you're pretty weird, and I'm gonna tell you why. Simply . . . unjustified bitchiness.

@Loba I knew someone who was forty that looked eighteen, so we can presume one day she will look eighteen.

@Carl-Richard You keep bringing your high school crush onto the forum.

God is omniscient. So he sees it. But as a human, he does not see it.

This is an unhealthy state of mind if it stays for too long. The prevailing theory of his death is that it was neurosyphilis contracted from prostitution, so it seems unlikely he was a virgin. He also suffered a number of ailments, physical and later on mental, that kept his material pursuits under control, so it's not really a discrepancy in his philosophy but rather something his philosophy may have overcompensated for. "Man as a microcosm" or "as above, so below" is an occult statement referring to humans and the greater world which does not disprove that we are complexifying. Civilizations have an ascending and descending pattern, and so do humans (birth, growth, death). But generationally, society is getting more complex, and the parts (humans) will as well, in following the pattern of which they are a culmination. Going backwards in structure is essentially the same as going backwards in time. I am perfectly fine with refreshingly bringing back to focus aspects of the past that may have been unjustly neglected, but not to the point of regression. As for the duality between God as God and God as humans you've set up, God incarnated as humans never was God as only God. God as only God cannot come into contact with humans except through impurifying itself, so God as humans all we ever have been and ever will be so long as we are humans. But even if we realize God, that is not God as just God, because that is like mahāsamādhi, a metempsychosis that obliterates humanity and therefore is not humanity. But even if we go beyond humanity, into the Omega Point, we get God as post-humanity rather than God as just God. God as just God must always be an abstraction to formed beings. It is hinted to present humans. People now cannot see it. Christianity and anti-Christianity both serve.

@Oeaohoo @Oeaohoo You are an Ascender and what Nietzsche calls an Afterworldsman or a despiser of life; you do not understand that Brahman is the world and that there is no reason to be an ascetic detached from this reality when God is reached (but contradictorily you believe decay, going backwards / devolving is a means of reaching God when it is objectively not). You shun the facts of existence just so you can grasp religious stage Blue conformity. The reason many ancient cultures believed in "decay" was because they were still grappling with the most brutal truths of creation and destruction, and they saw a veering between creation and destruction as cyclical and something observable on a short term scale extrapolatable to a long term astrological or speculative cosmic scale. But they didn't see the growth, the irreversible defying of entropy that we have experienced after thousands of years. Of course those with only bricks would not believe in walls, and those with only walls would not believe in buildings. It is a simple fact that greater complexity happens consecutively, like it has and will continue to axiomatically. There is nothing incorrect about "my" or "mine" or maturation or "personality" or "independence" or movement. Any refusal of this is fucking disgusting.

Ah, he's making to great leap from Purple to Red!

@Oeaohoo You do not understand infinity.

no

Button eyes.

My actual pattern is a pattern that is physically, vitally, mentally, supramentally, and spiritually unfolding as a knowable process. Your pattern actually is ignorant superstition, the mere word of "seers" that you take as statements from an authority. There is no true pattern of decay going on, only fluctuations with a general trend upward in complexity, consciousness, agency.

@Oeaohoo This process is not based on authority. It based on what is happening and what I have perfecting understanding of, as you may. The ascension is based on an actual pattern; your 'decay" / the world being taken away by God is just a superstitious obfuscation with no evidence. All else here is distraction since this is the one entry to a truth.

This ultimate nonduality is the untarnishable unity of the world as Brahman and Brahman as transcendent to the world, but you're claim of a Brahman (completely)/abstractedly transcendent to the world where there is no world due to the world as creation being anterior is not something we can ever access, because we in our current and future states are tied to "the world" of form. Since the world cannot be prior or anterior to anything, since any time necessitates the world, the world is eternally itself without having been created except through self-existence. That means all we have access to are mystical states of God unrealized becoming realized, the Infinity, the Nothingness, the Everything, that rests within every objective or subjective aspect of reality. It is a truth that we are progressing. Your "criticism" of that truth misunderstands it. The model does not worship matter or vitality; it recognizes them as lower holons. "They are more fundamental but less significant." Ultimately, everything is nondual as per the law of Spirit, but the logic, the procession, of reality follows a holarchical pattern of raw, dead, inconscient matter forming into more complex vitality, primitive life that is built into more complex life, until finally there is the yet more complex noospheric mind. This is matter to life to mind to soul to nondual realization of Spirit. Or, in terms of Vernadsky or Teilhard de Chardin, the physiospheric components making up the biosphere, which arises the noosphere, which itself is transcended and included in the greater and more complex patterns that are emerging. This is a truth that is ineluctable. No appeal to the authority of Eastern mystics falsely prophesizing about a cyclical decay can stop this; there are no cycles, and history does not truly repeat itself because everything is novel. It is obvious that once life arose, there was no going back. The same applies to the mind, and to what comes after. And the idea this is not leading to something specifically more complex and truer is preposterousness and an idiocy that stains the mind. There were Western mystics like Plotinus which could just as easily serve as an authority like the Eastern "seers" of back in history, but authority says nothing on this except that which can be proven by self-revealing truth. There is no decay; that simply is not the pattern here. Any "chaos" you see is temporary, or even something so complex it does not appear to be order. Nietzsche's strength was tearing down Christianity and placing the concept of an Overhuman in its place, but this is not good enough; it does not realize a truth or the Truth. It is untenable because it lacks basis in reality. As "ideals" of progress, North America is Spiral Dynamics "Orange" whereas India, as beautiful and mystically exploring as it is/was, was "Purple". We have more access to further progressed patterns and may observe them; they could not. The same way our systems can only intimate or warn about or dream about what's to come beyond us through thought and feeling and intelligence. That's because by the Wilberian terminology, people that worship matter are Descenders, whereas ascetics than only worship disincarnated Spirit are Ascenders. Those that integrate both are superior, in truth.