AtheisticNonduality

@thisintegrated

Dreams that possessed extreme significance to you, your life's unfoldment, the state of the world---precognitively or aesthetically?

Because of his Te, the linearity of his Overhumanity, his understanding of what is to come and how things must evolve according to that, rather than random exploration of ideas.

He butchered some little kids back in the nineties, went to prison for a few years, and now is a self-help teacher on Youtube. Musk is not. How much of this is because of Tier 2 thinking, and how much is just obsessive-compulsion? He had severe germaphobia and also was afraid of / loathed earrings. And I am obsessed with the number 4.

Nobody's bitten this post yet. I'll probably come back later to write something more thoughtful.

@Oeaohoo A few years ago, the first copy I had of Zarathustra was really bad---like the cover was almost as thin and crinkly as the pages. And the translation had archaisms, so it would say, "Thou great star! What would be thy happiness if thou hadst not those for whom thou shinest!", instead of "Great star! What would your happiness be if you had not those for whom you shine!" The latter is the Hollingdale, which is reputable. I'm actually waiting for him to go genuinely beyond the limits of sanity. The Life Divine is the most comprehensive and really impressive, though it's not a short read. I'll probably examine Guénon some time in the future.

I don't know completely. The passage about involuntary bliss in that book is very interesting. And the individuality of the character makes perfect sense to me. He is very funny; I love the tightrope walk where the clown murders the acrobat. But there's something sad about it all because Nietzsche must have been a very miserable person, being so alone philosophically "profoundly" in the time and place he was at, likely nobody understanding his ideas as clearly as himself and him suffering from severe health issues. He said in that book Jesus was immature and would have needed more time alive to reach proper clarity, so it makes me wonder what Nietzsche would have ended up as if he survived. Leo's issues with health also would correlate with Nietzsche's, though Nietzsche's was worse, it seems. And Leo hasn't gone insane and institutionalized yet! Or rather, he's just a freely roaming insane person in Las Vegas! Aurobindo is my favorite philosopher.

Now, Oeaohoo is Dionysian or Apollonian? Leans Nietzschean or Leoist?

@Oeaohoo Could you give a quick breakdown on the difference between Nietzschean and Leonian philosophy?

You'll be dead then. It's really that simple. God can't ever be dead (the real God, that is), so It'll be there.

Who?

@Hydreigon360 Marilyn Manson is Orange/Green with some Red emotional issues, though I'd prefer some of the earlier albums like Antichrist Superstar if I want something emotionally unhinged or Mechanical Animals if I want something softer. Saying the word n@#@#@! is Stage Slavemaster RACISM! Okay, I'm sorry, I see your philosophy is pretty anti-structure. You don't like organizing reality into a hierarchy of directions or a list of labels for everything (up is down, left is right, petty politics is misguided, etc.) and prefer a transcendental movement. But the issue is that the things referred to by Spiral Dynamics actually exist with the traits they're modeled as having, even if the specific names like "Blue" or "Green" are off-putting (maybe because color-coding seems childlike).

@thisintegrated @Carl-Richard @AtheisticNonduality The Holy Trinity of this forum.

Maybe, but the Te activates one to ant to mould the environment, in a way. You might be the intellect, yet there's possibility of being whatever's found to be transcendent in one's life, or way above one's life entirely in the realm mystically where God lies within Nothingness-Everythingness.

Refresh.

I just hit my head on a board nailed between two fences for no reason, man. INTJ: Turquoise: lives in a cave as an isolated shaman who plans their day of hunting and/or gathering in addition to meditating thoroughly and efficiently; they conjure up mystical union with God, and they see the Will of God coursing through every leaf, every petal, and every stem that comes into their everlastingly unifying consciousness, their "light of awareness" or their omni-existence. Or, they live from inside society as a surreptitious mystic spreading their influence throughout the webs of information in the human world, slowly but decisively pulling toward the Turquoise sky the consciousness of humankind. Or they are more open and more noticeable with their truth-giving schemes. Yellow: highly systematic in thought, sees how the world works like a massive machine made of unbearably complex sub-systems, obsessed with logic both as an abstraction ("pure" logic) and with how it plays out in the world of holarchies, systemic madnesses and successes going in the configuration of humanity pushing from one part of the schematic to another over the interminable, eternal, but always in motion, centuries. They see how things fit in, or don't. They visualize the differing levels of cognitive operation, whether they label them or not. Their knowledge of the system makes them self-aware to an extent, but they risk absorbance in the external system to the detriment of mystical insight. Green: less "open" than others at this spiral, political thinkers, planning out their effects on the world, carefully observing world events, might intuit that society is moving in certain directions (up or down), divides world into progress vs. regress or assistance vs. hindrance or moral vs. immoral but does not understand all the complexities of the situation, they know how to ask some good questions about the system but can't come up with the best solutions, see themselves as agents in the world for the betterment of society, views their role as a planner for the right side, maybe has fascination with various cultures and is certainly pluralistic in consideration of opinions/facts. Orange: materialistic, focused on whatever intellectual pursuits they have chosen for themselves (mathematics? physics? engineering? art history? biochemistry? literature? business? scamming people? communism?), overreliant on rationality and with a detrimental lack of feelings, doesn't understand other people's emotions or even their own, the world is an objective landscape: a place full of objects and material things that are manipulatable for my own gratification, lots of wit goes into such behaviors as examining the world or one's model of it to see what outcomes you get. Blue: the more intellectual/intelligent ones will be religious scholars like rabbi or Christian philosophers, some will be priests, in the old medieval times many would have been in the ecclesiastical ranks as bishops or cardinals or Machiavellian popes that "weaseled" their way to the top, power-desiring scheming kings and queens, in the modern day perhaps some conservative politicians, far-right philosophers, academic overachievers that are more "worker bee" than genuine intellectual, or some father that works out with immense planning the entire life of their daughter, unoriginally thinking smart people: people that are smart in some measurable ways but that don't have any greater materialistic goals (Orange), egalitarian/progressive political beliefs / moral positions (Green), or a deeper view of the world (Yellow). Red: criminals that assassinate their enemies with high precision, dictators that worked their way to the highest offices in their government by killing and overpowering, those that order large amounts of executions to keep things at bay, all threats to power systematically slaughtered, specifying what's needed to assert dominance: ordering this amount of tanks, deploying troops here and there, eliminating this opposition leader through making them have "a mysterious car wreck" or simply shooting them with efficiency, constructing an organization to rule over. Purple: medicine man in the tribe, warrior that led to military victories, inventor of various tribal technologies like tools or farming techniques or conflict strategies, records stories of the tribe by memorizing things and passing them down in oral tradition, in modern society probably someone relatively dysfunctional but creative in some ways.

My comment about the cute cat, Aurobindo, and The Life Divine was deleted!

@Razard86 You're so lost in confusion. It's hard to even say how because the system you've written down is so elaborated . You've cut the Absolute into half: the Unmanifest Infinity and the Manifest Infinity (finitude). You claim one is "more true" than the other, yet they are completely identical and exactly the same Absolute. If we say the Formlessness is the Absolute and that the Form is only something that arises from the Absolute, this is a linguistic obfuscation. They are both equivalently the Absolute. You might hear that the world of manifested Form and finites is "a dream" or "an illusion" while misinterpreting what this means. This only means that it is not externally based (not like in the materialistic paradigm where there is some abstraction of a disincarnate physical world that is not our consciousness); it does not mean that they are not real. They are real. They exist. If you admit they exist "as illusions," you have conceded their existence. They are not more or less real depending on how connected to God you are; they exist Absolutely, and that is the only qualifier for realness, truth.

His thinking/talking speed is way slower than my listening/understanding speed, so sometimes I play his videos at 2x speed, which has a strange inorganic feeling to it and doesn't convey the reality of his voice, his tone. Wish he spoke more similarly to this.

I have extensive experience (non-experience?) with dissociation. Might write something here tomorrow.

You could just read the Wikipedia page if you can't read a book. You could read it! His model existed exactly the same before he added the Spiral Dynamics stuff to match it. It's based on Gebser's model of archaic to magic to mythic to rational to integral as the cultural quadrant (lower-left) and the Piagetian model of sensorimotor to preoperational to concrete-operational to formal-operational (upper-right) and Kohlberg's moral development model of preconventional to conventional to postconventional (upper-left). Also, Hegel and more philosophers which describe the same progression. Yes. Really? This is like if you went to some secluded village in India where everyone is 5'4 or less and told them there was once a person over eight feet tall. They wouldn't believe it. Turquoise is incomplete because reality is infinite, and once you go to a certain level of infinity, it is no longer Turquoise. Yellow is overly intellectual, and Turquoise is overly undeveloped. A Turquoise person is not God-realized; they only have worldly wholeness and high quality spiritual intelligence. That's all that's required. You extrapolate to Turquoise to go higher than that simply because you don't get the models well enough (the original Spiral Dynamics never had Turquoise spiritualized into mysticism AT ALL. It was just about flexibility and working dynamically. Wilber added the spiritual dimensions truly, and keep in mind Leo probably certainly appropriated SDi from Wilber. And all stages have their pathologies. Don't worry. Someone may have a predisposition to progress faster. Turquoise fucking sucks by the way (not the color; I love the color; it's beautiful).

@thisintegrated Since you're too . . . illiterate . . . to consider reading SES, I'll have to de-vague it, clarify it, for you. Basically, imagine Wilber as Leo but more intellectually brilliant and with about the same "autism levels of Ne" you might say. His model is superior to standard Spiral Dynamics because it specifies reality more, really revealing the processes by which the upper stages work (though he hadn't encountered SD at the time; it works through the models that preceded it even). Wilber's writing style is very repetitive, because it's almost like he can't experience the point of view of the reader and so has to assume they don't understand it (and then thisintegrated comes along and says, "Ken, tldr?").

It doesn't? Haven't you? Leo Gura? LEO GURAA!!! He doesn't claim to be at that nondual development, permanently or so; he just documented it. You don't think there are genetic anomalies beyond Turquoise? Turquoise as a stage is exceptionally vague and a bad ceiling for development anyway, as far as I'm concerned. The Clear Light terminological inventor, or Ingram? Or both as the same entity. I assume Wilber then.

Impossible.