Someone here

That's indeed a very serious epistemological problem. We can't step outside what we already know. You can't even conceive of something outside of your own perceptions because no matter what you do you are still inside it. Only after you wake up from the dream you can discover something beyond the dream phenomenon itself. It only happens in retrospect. You don't know what you don't know untill you know lol. That's how knowledge works!

@Leo Gura I get that Consciousness already exists and it doesn't need to be created in the sense it's gonna be created for the first time! I mean in the sense being rendered or produced. If i understood you correct you mean they actually can make Conscious robots using Consciousness itself. They will use Consciousness to create just more Consciousness.! A scientist might disagree because they think "brains and neurons" are not themselves Consciousness but rather Consciousness is just a byproduct of unconscious dumb matter. Like water is a liquid that is emerging from nonliquid components (hydrogen and oxygen).

Wouldn't that be contradicting your perspective of " Consciousness is irreducibly mystical and it's not an emergent phenomenon from neurology and chemical reactions"? Because if that's true I think it must follow that science can't ever create consciousness by playing with matter and arranging it together in specific ways (because the assumption is that Consciousness doesn't arise from matter anyways). So I would say if they managed to create such robots that would be evidence that Consciousness is in fact just a byproduct of matter even if we don't totally understand how this happenes,

"Yesterday I was clever.. I tried to change the world. Today I'm wise..so I'm changing myself."- rumi

Don't feed the troll.

You are the farthest person from enlightenment let alone to teach it. Get over it!.

Wow you are so enlightened teach me please!

What's so funny mister "know it all"?

It's like asking what if this kid gets full high grades this semester? Just what "if"? And all your expectations were false about him? And you guys are like "no way he is a loser he will fail like always. Trust me. I know". You refuse to even entertain the possibility. That's OK btw. To each his own.

LOL he is on another level!

So "I" as the individual human ego is not the only real person so to speak? Because Leo's statements seem like brutal solipsism (there are no others.. You are hallucinating me and everyone else)!

Yes here we go again. If you think this is easy shit go ahead and explain it to me.

Maybe!

I know that's your outlook on it and Leo's as well. It's just a hypothetical question. Just suppose that happened.. What would that mean to our understanding of Consciousness?. If you take someone from 3000 years ago and showed them our technology right now and how you can talk to someone on a different country and see them and even record the conversation so that you can replay it forever.. He would think that's utterly impossible and mystical. Yet here we are!

What if science manages to build robots with self awareness and Consciousness identical to our human awareness? What would be your response to that?

Here is where it starts hitting dead ends with me. I have tons of questions here that maybe won't be appropriate to discuss them on the forum. I really wish if you shoot a video explaining the mechanics of how this works exactly and how it is linked with solipsism because I'm so confused by that.

OK Leo this is pure epistemological nihilism here. It's like an intellectual suicide. How you then progress into saying "your life is....". I'm sure you don't mean that everything anyone says is totally false except what you say!.

It's an interesting possibility. Just that. But it's built on the assumption that this reality that you are living right now is literally a dream. Do you know that?

Start by questioning the assumption why should psychedelic trips be taken as revealing any important facts about you and reality and who you are at all? Let it be pleasant or terrifying makes no difference. It's just a temporary trip and you are back to who you really are! Just like getting lost inside a mind blowing VR video game. For a while and then coming back. Nothing more IMO.

Like a lot of people. Sadly!

They might be the same and they might not be the same.! Both are possible. That's what you're missing. It's the same as simulation theory. In this reality we are able to create simulations that appear 100% "real" and then follows the question "what makes you sure we are not inside a simulation right now?". Well nothing makes me sure! Who said I'm sure?? But you also are not sure and pretending to be sure but in the opposite direction. As for the last part I think you are just trolling and no need to respond to that.

I'm not getting it. From the beginning you are calling both states a "dream state" to conclude at the end that they are both dream states! and your only argument for that is that they have similar (not identical) phenomenology?. Two logical fallacies here : the first is circular reasoning (the assumption is identical to the conclusion) and" jumping ". That is to say your reasoning doesn't actually lead to your conclusion. A dream world is similar to the waking world but that doesn't mean they are both dreams. A high quality video game is similar to the real world but that doesn't mean they are both video games.! And I agree with the last part. If all duality collapses that would be identical to "nothingness". The only thing that exists or could exist must be dualistic.

Indeed.

@Keyhole just let her go. Don't like her.. Don't watch her. Life is so easy when you are smart and not a woman (jk lol ).

We can't live without illusions!