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Here's a simple way to look at it.. What is meant is simply that there is no "perceiver" ..as a duality (perception +perceiver)... You can indeed open a skull and see a brain and you can see your own brain (let's assume that's possible) but these are just perceptions supposedly occurring inside the perceiver brain.. You can see a brain as a perception.. But the Assumed perceiver brain can never be perceived because the perceiver can't be an object of perception. The perceiver can't perceive itself. Just like the eye can't see itself and the knife can't cut itself. So to summarize.. There are brains found in perception.. But the brain that's assumed to be perceiving them can't be found. Was never found and will never be found. Because it sits outside of perceptions. There is in fact no "perceiver" aside from perception. If you take a look at direct experience.. You can't find a perceiver. All you find are perceptions. If you manage to name a perceiver..notice that's just another perception. The perceiver "the ego mind" is an optical illusion.

@Carl-Richard I agree with @allislove that life itself with all its forms is "enlightened".. It's all different expressions of the same energy. Every being is enlightened in its own way..because it's inevitable part of the cosmic dance. You seem to have a strict definition of enlightenment that I don't agree with. Enlightenment has nothing to do with "wisdom" or "thoughts".

@Mason Riggle who said I have a problem? I'm saying that I come to a place where I see the hopelessness of desire and to transcend it. But it does have some nihilistic implications that I'd like to put out there.

Apparent you.

It's basically the idea that there is Nothing to achieve or nothing that is worth striving for. No matter how much you chase stuff.. You end up right back where you started and you never arrive by achieving your desires. As I said when desire is achieved It actually multiply.. It increases. And you you are left with empty hands always.

Yes but rocks aren't even sentient beings. Animals.. They simply are but they are conscious.

I don't know.

I think yes. It of course depends on what version of enlightenment are we talking about.. Here I'm talking about the simplicity of being without ego agenda and delusion. Humans are so delusional. Animals are lighter.

@Tim R its like I feel existence is so pointless. Even if you become a billionaire there is really nothing that significant waiting for you .. If you have enough food to eat.. What is more money going to do anyways??? What is fucking 3 girls at the bar going to do?? Lol People are busy chasing after things and I'm just more sensitive to realize it's all bullshit. I'm not disturbed per se.. But I feel like being is all that left. And I don't wanna face the emptiness of being.

No I'm pretty much done with all forms of seeking.. I see it clearly as illusion . All seeking and desire is pointless like a hamster in a wheel. Now I'm left with mixed feelings of peace.. Emptiness and boredom.

That's enlightenment

@LastThursday correlation doesn't equal causation, they say.

@allislove well there is apparent separation.. Nonduality is hidden within duality. I'm speaking from relative perspective.

@allislove were you asking about separation between humans and animals?

Yes I can

@Nahm stop it.

@mandyjw wave or particle? Observer? What does that to do with OP?

None of your business.

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/they

In the context of humans.. t's not something you gain.... it's a falling away of who you thought you were and the realization of true self. Which by the way feels like nothing and everything at the same time kind of hard to explain. Judgment becomes pointless because you know they are just conditioned thought patterns. You look at things as they are. The saying "it is what it is" Rings true with enlightenment. To me Enlightenment is simply the Truth realized in all aspects of existence. It's not necessarily that your ego dissolves or goes anywhere ...you can just choose not to listen to it.. Etc all That is present to some extent naturally in animals.

They are not unenlightened =they are enlightened. Was not asking can they "become" enlightened.. But it's their natural state

Would you say they are not capable of thinking outside of the realm of their survival. And that's pretty much a huge facet of being awake.. Is not concerning oneself with too much overthinking in the future and the past and what's outside one's direct experience. They are just in touch with direct experience. I don't believe enlightenment is a matter of intelligence. They suffer less psychological suffering.. They have more peace and surrender to the present moment.. They have less mental anguish.. Etc all these are enlightened characteristics.. They don't necessarily need to be earned. They are just born with it. I would say they are more in tune and touch with their own being then us humans and live less in concepts and more in the real world. That makes them more naturally "enlightened" than us.

We are also ignorant but we struggle due to the illusion of knowing that comes as we grow up.. However animals don't have that inner struggle against their ignorance. They seem completely at peace with their ignorance.

It does feel that expectations from society nowadays are too high. I also find myself exhausted and longing for an extended periods of isolation. camping sounds heavenly to me right now :). I have also realised that a lot of the times I put a lot of expectations on myself and have realised the only way that I can deal with this is by putting very specific boundaries in place.. including my sleeping times. Quitting society is not always a possibility but if we are able to make time for ourselves somewhere during the week just to read.. sleep or do that fun thing that we have been wanting to do for ages..then I really do believe we can make it through these difficult times.o. ne day at a time. If anyone experienced with van life or living as a drop out have some info.. Please share. Of course the first concerns is how to survive.. Unless you have stable access to food and shelter etc.

You might have wondered.. Why philosophy is not discussed almost anywhere in mainstream society... Well that's because we live in a science Era where scientists have took ownership of the issue of knowledge from philosophers for decades by now. And I wanna present to you the core principle that makes science preferable to philosophy these days in approach to knowledge. Specifically to metaphysics. Simply because metaphysical subjects are impossible to prove or to disprove. Thus makes debating metaphysics considered a meaningless activity by mainstream society. A statement is meaningful if and only if it can be proved true or false.. at least in principle.. by means of the experience -this assertion is called the verifiability principle (aka the "verifiability criterion of meanng)The meaning of a statement is its method of verification.. that is we know the meaning of a statement if we know the conditions under which the statement is true or false. When are we sure that the meaning of a question is clear? Obviously if and only if we are able to exactly describe the conditions in which it is possible to answer yes...or..respectively.. the conditions in which it is necessary to answer with a no. The meaning of a question is thus defined only through the specification of those conditions... The definition of the circumstances under which a statement is true is perfectly equivalent to the definition of its meaning. ... a statement has a meaning if and only if the fact that it is true makes a verifiable difference. Metaphysical statements are not empirically verifiable and are thus forbidden: they are meaningless. That's why it's cringe to talk about the true nature of reality and such topics. The only role of philosophy nowadays is the clarification of the meaning of statements and their logical relationships. There is no distinct "philosophical knowledge" over and above the analytic knowledge provided by the formal disciplines of logic and mathematics and the empirical knowledge provided by the sciences. Needless to say that's not how I view.philosophy.i actually study philosophy as my career. It's is absolutely necessary (and we can discuss that). But that's how it's looked upon nowadays epistemologically.