Someone here

@Leo Gura how can I know who's "really" awake? . Different teachers have different concepts about what It means to be Awaken and they all think that's the only "real" awakening. Mooji : just realize the "I" thought is an illusion and stay as "isness". Rupert Spira : you are the knowing of experience. Be aware of being aware. Osho : meditate and stay in a silent mind. You : realize that you are God and you created the whole universe. How can I know which one is the highest method?

Says who? Science apparently explained a lot of things. Might not be able to explain everything. But to say it can't explain anything is just ridiculously false.

I think Leo should be the first one who wants science to understand psychedelics and be able to induce the psychedelic experience without actually taking them. Regarding awakening.. I agree with fred (the nonduality teacher they talked about in the other thread) that we are already awake. There's nothing to Awaken to. This is reality.. This is as real as it gets..hello, Can you see it?

Leo enters the chat lol

Yes you did. You now can say I'm talking to myself. No you can't say that. That would mean what Spira said about the multiple finite minds that are separate apparently but unified at the essence. If you deny that and say there's only your mind then you are literally talking to nobody in this forum. But ofcourse you don't assume that. You assume that you are talking to real finite minds. It's not so simple.

Spira says there is multiple finite minds but only one infinite mind (what you call God) That's simultaneously inhabiting these different finite minds. What you say here is 100%solipsism. Which means you (yes you) are literally the only awareness in the entire universe =no one in this forum is actually real outside your awareness of them. So that raises the question : why are you talking to nobody?

Hard pill to swallow but the answer is : literally nothing! . If you manage to find a" thing " that is controlling this experience that you call life let me know.

I think you are confusing two things here. This topic is not specifically about explaining reality or awakening but about just explaining the psychedelic experience.

OK no problem. Understandable

I respect your opinion. And I know that's most people's opinion here. I'm not trying to debate or disprove psychedelics as nonsense or mere hallucinations. I thought the video is interesting and offering the opposite perspective always reveals truth from falsehood. So there is no need to take these studies as debunking spiritual experiences but looking at it from different perspective is never a unuseful thing.

very true!

OK so why you think you can debunk everything I say by just saying they are just concepts and thoughts? .

I can't take a psychedelic for various of reasons. I know we can't ask for sourcing here. But if I could PM you about it would appreciate it.

Do you realize these are also thoughts?

Just so you know. Everything you say are also concepts. But it seems like your concepts are the only true concepts or you are allowed to use concepts and I'm not. I'm tired of people telling me I'm saying concepts. To talk we have to use concepts or we better just shut up. And there is absolutely nothing funny btw.

What do you mean science is a hallucination?. And anything else for that matter? What do you mean exactly when you say something is a hallucination?

OK Leo can you define what imaginary means? Or what do you mean when you say it? Unreal? Doesnt exist? Immaterial? What?

@Jacobsrwwhen you take a DMT you see entities. People think these entities are immaterial ghosts or something. According to science they are just material visuals caused by altered perception centers in the brain that's affected by the drug. That's what I meant. That's not my opinion again. That's what scientific study says. For me that's the most reasonable explanation.

@Jacobsrw you are just spreading these statements as if it's objective absolute facts. You actually don't know that. You don't know if science is capable of explaining psychedelics. There's no reason to not think this is possible. If you do a bit research on the topic you will see it's just a matter of time before it happens. It's a hallucinating drug.. Why would science not be able to understand it like any other chemical when you inject in your body?.

OK thanks. That's a good way to end any conversation btw. It works.

@Jacobsrw @Jacobsrw Ofcourse different chemicals have different effect on the brain that's so obvious.

I'm not creating a duality here. It doesn't matter the label. The point of it's understood how the mechanism work then that's that. We don't need to jump to mystical conclusions it's sort of like ancient people believed that dreams are activity from spirits but now we know that the brain is responsible for dreams and not ghosts.

@Jacobsrw@cetus I doubt it too but I "believe" in the future you can actually go and visit a therapist and he will do something in your brain without injecting psychedelics that allows you to see that thing up there lol. It's safe to conclude that since we already can track the parts of the brain and the exact changes that happen during the trips

@Jacobsrw he was running an experiment on psychedelics. It was his first time so it's understandable. It was the intention from the experiment from the very beginning to track what's happening in his brain during and after the trip. He's so scientifically minded so you can't blame him for that. You can't force people to just use your own method of studying and exclude any other method. If we as humans just accept every thing as it is in the world science wouldn't advance and will probably stay like apes in the jungle. But straight to the point.. What's your current understanding of how psychedelics work? and how do you explain the very clear correlation between the trip and the brain activity?

I think you mean the ego or the sense of separation but not the raw perception. That doesn't die on a psychedelic trip.