Someone here

@electroBeam interesting

I agree.

I would say they are experiencing something that is clearly different from how the majority of people act. But I wouldn't call them ill or sick. Because most so-called mental diseases are potentially there in how the human mind works. You can observe yourself hearing voices in your head.. Talking to yourself.. Having opposing views (multiple personalities) etc. Yet it's just mild. So imo.. The symptoms of mental illness are potentially there in every human.. It's just in their case (mental people) they reach a point where they are unable to control it anymore.. Whereas for the majority of people they are able to fake that they are a "person" with a linear personality. Acting can happen. Your body mind can act in a way that is in accordance to the conditioning that it received throughout your whole life. Or it can act in a different way that is not familiar with it. In both cases.. Whatever the body-mind does.. It's not "free".. At the center of this whole thing.. There isn't an agency who is doing.. Acting.. Who is ill or normal. The true Self is pure awareness. Pure being. Pure existence. This pure being is impersonal. It's not someone or something. It's unconditional because its not this or that. It's just there as a silent witness. The body and mind are conditioned. It can't act without a program. Therefore not free. You speak English because that's the language you've been programmed with. Change the programming into French language.. The body Wil start speaking French. And if the body didn't receive any linguistic programming.. The body won't talk any language!. But in both cases.. You as the awareness are not affected. Awareness. You become aware that "this is a dream" while you are dreaming..

@Gesundheit please let's stay on topic. If you have something of substance regarding the main topic go ahead. You are right tho. It's kinda paradoxical and twisted so let's not delve too deep into it.

@GesundheitLOL

This summarizes the whole game that's going on here.

That's your definition? But I have a different definition.. Which one is true? And who's to say? Ofcourse mine is the true And I get to say.

No I don't deny experience if you mean this . It's just that the experience is not your experience. No the absolute is not measurable. To put it as it is.. The absolute doesn't exist. Because exist is a relative quality. And the absolute is not relative. And in all that..... I don't know what does that have to do with the topic lol ??

A relative perspective means it's true relatively. It's not true in the absolute or in every possible sense. For example what makes a person mentally ill? Is there an absolute 1 2 3 God-given rules written somewhere in the universe that decides who is what and what is not? The absolute perspective is that of a no perspective. As long as it is a perspective it's a POV.. It's relative.. Means in relation to something. Not universally or objectively true. I hope I clarified it for ya.

In experience there is no such thing as being mental or being normal. The whole distinction is a mental fabrication. You can act. But you don't have free will. Nothing special about the ability of acting that makes you have free will. There really isn't any you so what the fuck are we talking about? Yes the only thing that is not habitual is the true Self. As pure awareness. You are not conditioned as that. But the mistaken identity or the personality is itself just a bunch of habits. Change the habits. You are a new person! You tell me. In this thread I'm the student and you are the teacher. We can switch the roles later on ? Well when you are aware that you are dreaming while you are dreaming it's called a lucid dream. How does it happen? It just happens lol. Still not sure what does that have to do with the topic lol ?

What is enlightenment?

Great! Look you are using the finite pathetic human mind to grasp the infinitely mind blowing miracle that is reality... At some point you gotta wise up and realize this can't work. Don't make any conclusions that you haven't grasped directly. Connect with the present moment via senses and let go of the need to know. There is nothing to know anyways. At least not for the mind. Take care friend.

Yes sir. Now you just took it to a whole new level lol.

No that's false. The you is just a thought story. It's not an experience . " You are having an experience of reality" =thought. Just thinking process. Take away that thinking for a moment..... Just reality. Just experience.

You have to figure out if there is such thing as "anyone" first. Again this is duality.. A someone.. And a teaching to be embodied.. And a process of embodiment. The teaching is for the ego. There is no ego to embody. Truth can't be embodied. Who would embody it?? It embodies itself it already is itself everywhere and everywhen. Wake up you little thread spy lol.

@arlin reality is nondual. It means there isn't two things that exist in reality. There is only just reality happening to reality. But That's also going too far. There is only just fucking THIS. Impossiblely direct. Just THIS. You and a happening is two. You are conscious of reality is two. Illusion and real is two. You and consciousness is two. There is only one thing and THIS is it. Any divisions you think are imaginary. That includes the division between real and imaginary. Between subject and object. Between Leo and your dad. Between right and wrong. Between duality and nonduality. Don't try to use the mind to understand. The mind can just create distinctions. All distinctions are bullshit. Reality is ONE. There is nothing to understand. It all self-understands itself perfectly. Wake up. Wake up.

THIS is Consciousness. Right here. It's not illusion. Fine? Now go ahead.. Where is this ghost called you? How do you know you are the head and not the feet? How you know you are the human feet and not the TV screen? You think you are looking at the screen right now right? That's just a thought.. Take away the thought "I am looking at the screen right now" for a moment.... All the sudden there is just pure screen happening to no one.

Dude there is no you to become conscious of anything. You don't exist. Only consciousness exists. And that is YOU.

Alright I wanna understand.. If she did that.. What exactly is "wrong" with it? Is it wrong morally? Ain't no such thing as morals we are just a bunch of evolved apes who figured out how to create illusions to organize our lives. Is it because she might be traumatized? Ok so she doesn't deserve love? She can't change? If she is my wife now then her prostitution career is something from the past. Why can't she open a new page with me and be become a sincere wife?. Is it because she might cheat on me? Any woman can cheat on You. If she did cheat on me that's a different subject..but imagine how crazy it is to divorce your wife because you think she "might" cheat on you!. I would say I'm not sure if I could date her beforehand.. If I knew she was a prostitute.. But if I didn't know and then married her for few years and loved her.. Maybe even had kids.. No way in hell I'm leaving her.

Well I know what you are pointing to. The relative nature of everything. So from a relative perspective.. We assume a separate self that should have a certain personality and behave in a certain way that is constant and unchanging. My experience of no-self I can see the whole "self" "personality" thing is a just a bunch of conditiodned thoughts. So there is nothing objective about who you are or how you should behave or what defines being "normal" or being "mentally ill". Yet we have those constructs they have relative and practical value. Maybe it's linked to survival. The more you act in a constant way the higher your chances of survival.

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Beautiful and very true

There is a lot of suffering that one can experience in this life. Some people are lucky they experience less suffering and some people are just fated to be in the middle of some extreme shit like starving kids in Africa etc. Suffering exists so let's not waste time arguing about whether it exists or not.. My question is there a salvation? A permanent end to all forms of suffering? If so what it is? Because I don't think there is such a way except permanent annihilation. Please make your response non - classical and nuanced because it's so easy to deconstruct woo woo unrealistic answers. Thanks

Leo: " I know everything that's happening in the universe. -door knocking. Leo : who dis?".