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Yes you basically reformed my question but didn't answer it. I'm guessing water is analogous to nothingness. And ice is something. So nothing appears as stuff. My question is why or how If you will. How does nothing appear as stuff. If it truly is nothing.. Where does the" stuffness "quality come from? How do you appear as something you are actually not?

Is anything real at any level?

"you have to bite the bullet of consciousness" lol Honestly and not to kiss Leo's ass.. He was very good and I didn't perceive any of the stuff people say about how he avoided answering questions. He made an incredibly good point when asked "how do you know "..stuff like infinite love etc 1.how do you know anything? 2. By becoming conscious of it directly. And there is no other way of knowing. And this cannot be doubted. Because consciousness is all there is. And given that he became conscious of infinite love and whatnot he knows its true that everything is a manifestation of love Yada Yada. Very good explanation. I liked that part and it was very useful because I was puzzled by the same issue and that clarified stuff for me. Bravo Leo ?

these sensual inputs are stuff. It's not about whether what you sense is actually objective and substantial. It's just the mere fact that appearance is happening. Why there wasn't simply no touch no smell no sight no sound no nothing?

I mean I get it intellectually. I can talk about how stuff is actually nothingness theoretically. But experientially I feel that's stuff doesn't equal no stuff. What I don't get is... If stuff is actually no stuff if you get to the bottom of it.. Then why it takes on the appearance of stuff exclusively?.. Why the universe wasn't just pure empty space?

Then that would also be saying too much. So why are you biased towards the negative? you are leaving it as a superposition of "it exists and it doesn't exist and both and neither". I dig that that's true absolutely speaking. But it certainly is not how you experience it in your everyday life. You certainly Believe stuff exists. Come the fuck on @Tim R

@Matt23 wasn't meaning you. ? I meant the youtube comment section.

Leo was great. Not sure why so much negative comments.

Who knows for bloody sakes? For real tho..A=A. .I can't define a thing in terms of other things. Everything is just what it is. Exactly how it appears. Sound is sound. Color is color. Etc Not sure if that's what you were trying to get at..

Right. But it's a bias either way. Why have physical stuff and phenomenon and not pure blank? Wdym? Apparently they do lol

Well you can get all technical about how to phrase it. Think about the difference between the state of deep sleep and the state of waking up and dreams.. The state of deep sleep doesn't require an explanation (there is no one there to ask a question) because it's a perfect zero. Perfect blank. Whereas the "appearance" of physical reality surely does. Especially when you come to know that's at its core all of physical reality is actually indeed nothing lol Curios what's your conception of "God"?

Yeah I know. I'm saying that's a possibility which requires no explanation. Whereas what's actually going on here is you've got solid physical stuff that started out as pure potential. And that requires an explanation. And I can't seem to find one.

?

Some say nothingness is identical to a fountain of pure infinite potential and it just spawns forms forever. But it could be posed that the universe was just an eternal singularity of endless blankness without any potential. Having infinte potential seems like a bias that requires explanation. When no such explanation makes sense.

No. That's just a story. Reality is direct being. There is no mechanism behind the scenes. It's totally direct and irreducible.

@Mason Riggle I agree. And that's what I corrected about him because he's saying "the doer is God not me". And I'm pointing out that "God" is "me".

You are God.

Yes that's because not every single apparent trolling comment is actually worth taking action. Keep in mind it's a relative thing. Some people are more sensitive than others (I'm guessing you are sensitive person) and because of your sensitivity you might perceive it as trolling when it's really just another comment on the forum. Maybe ask yourself why are people being racist to you.. Do you see it happen with other forum members.. . Why "you"? Do you think it's because you have a proactive personality?

Just report them and move on.. Besides that.. Who cares for bloody sakes?

Imaginary is just another word for conceptual. You don't appreciate how much of your reality is actually fantasy and imagination vs actual. The external objective world is imaginary. What do i mean by this? You are projecting the idea that what you are experiencing right now has a deeper independent reality to it. Which you call the external objective world. You Believe the world exists when you are not perceiving it. recognize it’s a more of convoluted belief system that requires extra mind baggage.. that careful.. objective.. direct study of experience and reality does not need. In fact.. if you studied your direct experience long enough you’d notice all sensory perception has no solidity to it at all.. it’s just a fluid.. spacious.. fluctuating field of is-ness popping into and out of a void. the “objective” reality science thinks is out there is quite literally impossible if they knew what they were actually studying, which is perception. The thoughts that think there’s an objective layer are also popping into and out of this void. This requires an extremely stable...mindful concentration of what is really happening vs what your mind thinks is happening. However your consciousness of the present moment is actual. regardless of whether you deny perception/consciousness, it’s here, it’s primary, it’s completely undeniable. Any extra metaphysical claims about the substance of reality are subject to unfalsifiable skepticism. The truth of the matter is that any thought cannot be Absolutely True due to the nature of thoughts existing as functions of time which is of course an illusion constructed by the mind.. the fact that thoughts are symbolic representations of reality (the map is not the territory).. and finally.. the fact that all reason and rationality will always dissolve into an infinite regress of reason where one must eventually concede that they’re taking on a belief. . And again.. It's impossible to prove an objective external world outside of your imagination due to the nature of conscious experience only having the ability to exist as experience. Consciousness is all you have to prove a world. So you are always using consciousness as the actual substance of inquiry and you cannot step outside of consciousness to verify is something outside of consciousness. When you give your back to the world your mind assumes there is a world behind you.. You do this because you need to create reality.. Because If you don't create it.. It doesn't exist. If you stop assuming anything on top of what is "actual".. You would see the only actual thing is nothing. You think the phone that you are holding is actual.. It's not.. There is no phone.. Each moment there is a changing appearance but your mind comes in and create out of this groundless flow an illusion of "object". There are no objects. Each moment you are holding a new phone. Because.... Consistency is imaginary. You think you are the same person living in the same world all the time. and you are not recognizing that each moment a new reality is constructed and its constantly fluctuating. if not for your memory which gives the illusion of consistency. Which is of course completely imaginary. Notice : you are literally imagining your memories and your past. You might look at your Hand and you might think that your hand is consistent.. But actually object's permanence is conceptual. There is no "hand" to begin with as a physical "object". It changes every millisecond. Takes different locations in time and space. So It has no consistency from this pov. The consistency is imagined Your hand is literally not consistent. Just because the mind constructs the consistency. it’s actually a different hand each second . The shape.. Location and position have all changed. Moment by moment, some facet of direct experience has changed. Even your hands are not the same hands while staring at it moment by moment. Whether one’s level of consciousness is capable of observing the fluctuations in perception and see through the illusion of consistency is a different matter. My point is.. Almost 90 % of your reality has nothing to do with reality. It's imaginary. But as you can see...these imaginations are so important to your sense of reality and to your stability and functionality.. Without the imagination of the external world and of consistency you might have a mental breakdown. That explains why it's hard to see through the illusion and awaken to the truth.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/sense-organs-are-imaginary

@Dodo you are not appreciating the depth of the problem. 1. Dreams appear real so as the waking state. Why do you then call the waking state the "real world" while ignoring dreams as mere fantasy? How do you justify that bias? Maybe you are dreaming while awake and awake while dreaming? How do you decide which one is "the real world"? 2. Becoming lucid in a dream only to wake up doesn't prove that you are now in the waking state. Ever woke up from one dream to enter another dream? Maybe the so called waking reality is just the next level of dreaming and you have yet to wake up from? Maybe there is no end to Dream levels?

NOTICE each time you mentioned "waking reality" as if it's a given. Notice that when you are dreaming you also assume that the Dream world is "waking reality" until you wake up. If you are being honest..you have no idea what this experience right now is. You imagine dreams at night to contrast it with so that you can define it as "waking reality". But this is fantasy. NOTICE that when you are inside of a Dream.. It seems logical and consistent untill you wake up. Only then you judge it as incoherent.

Truth is a concept/label . It implies falsehood. There aren't any falsehood. So there aren't any truth either. There is only what's happening. Infinity. The conceptual level is truth as is the no-conceptual level. You can't contain infinity in a single word. Or a single understanding or way of approaching. So let's not debate it because it's utterly futile. Let go of the need to smash labels onto infinity in order to understand it and manipulate it and see what happens. You would see that even "Truth" is imaginary.

It's not lost. So it can't ever be found.