Someone here

@Shin btw let me ask you how do you know that's true?

That's just... Scary

I'm practicing (do nothing) meditation technique these days and self-inquiry to try to calm down the activities of my mind. In my observation.. it is impossible to stop thinking. The notion of thinking itself is a grey area because you could say emotions.. perceptions.. sensations are a type of thought as well. Even beyond that, the subconscious mind itself can be viewed as a collection of thoughts and notions under the surface. But even if we talk about the recurring surface level thoughts. From a functional perspective.. Stopping them will mean a regression in one's Evolution. You can't suddenly go back to an animal state prior to thoughts. Likewise.. transcending thought would mean being in continues state of Samadhi.. where one can't function in this world. Thoughts come and go out of nowhere and are outside of your control (like weather or your body's metabolism). Trying to stop your mind can be a powerful ascetic practice since you will quickly realize that it is impossible. Thoughts on stopping thoughts?

Do you mean The thought that stops moving is the psychological thought. Thought will still move to solve practical problems. To control certain aspects of environmental or to meet physical needs?

@BipolarGrowth how so? Even when you are 'not thinking', you are thinking the thought "I am not thinking" , or "I am aware"

What do you mean by that?

So this is a new (or new old) way to try to conceptualize reality and make sense of it. The distinctions here are arbitrary and completely relative but nevertheless here we go. There is basically only two things in all of existence.. Forms and formlessness. That's it. There isn't and never was and never will be anything else. The forms ALWAYS are limited and impermanent. The formless ONLY is unlimited and permanent. The two Are actually identical but it's hard for the mind to make sense of that (how could these forms be formless?). Instead try to think of it this way.. The formless is the container of forms. You might ask "where are all these forms taking place"? "where does existence happening"? And the answer is really nowhere.. Reality is happening inside of nothingness. If we erase all forms from existence.. What's left? Only pure formlessness. Pure nothingness. So that's like what's underneath all forms. Or the container of all forms.. The original state that then comes different forms and appear inside of it. So this present moment that's happening right now is 50 % forms and 50 % formlessness. We usually don't think of it this way.. We think "it's just forms ".of course you can't see it because it's not a form. It has no qualities whatsoever and that's precisely why and how it is present everywhere and every when yet you can't see it.. Because you can only see forms. But how come forms are present without a container? There must be a container that contains all these forms and it can't be anything else but formlessness. Think about an empty glass that is necessary to have some water or any substance inside of it. But instead what we have here is not an empty "glass".. But rather pure emptiness. Now you might ask.."where did all these forms come from then"? Here there is really no answer. It's pure magic. But the trick is that ultimately all forms appear and disappear.. They are just like dreams or hallucinations.. Forever appearing and disappearing. There is no rational explanation whatsoever why forms are here (the answer is actually that form is formlessness but it's near impossible to make sense of it rationally without a mystical experience). But the only way to relate to it is by understanding that all forms are ultimately a temporary passing show that means absolutely nothing and was never ought to be anything substantial or to form a "reality".

It's You

You might find this interesting https://www.actualized.org/insights/sense-organs-are-imaginary

@Paracosm but who cares about the Bible? ?

In The latest video.. Leo mentioned about epistemlogical nihilism but didn't go in depth about it .. which claims that the acquisition of knowledge is impossible. And I wanna discuss this. How do we know anything at all? Let's say our senses give us direct access to reality. Beyond the sensory content.. How do you ground any knowledge whatsoever? all reason and rationality will always dissolve into an infinite regress of reason where one must eventually concede that they’re taking on a belief. Let's take one example.. If you are not seeing the moon right now.. How do you know it exists somewhere in the universe? You would have to rely on memories or take a scientist's word for it.. Both are just based on faith and cannot be certain knowledge. Another observation.. Is that the senses doesn't give you an explanation of themselves. You see red. You know red exists by seeing it. but sight doesn't explain to you what sight is. And every explanation will require another one to infinity. So actually everything is unexplained. Thoughts?

@Leo Gura bad news . Because more than 50 % of my life is based on stuff that I have no direct consciousness of. A huge part of my 'knowledge' is based on nothing.

@dflores321 @Leo Gura nice! What else? You are not conscious of the moon rn and yet you think you know it exists َ? You are not conscious of your blood flow rn yet you think you know it exists? How to ground a knowledge that you are not directly conscious of, is my main question?it's a reoccurring question that I have not found an answer to.

@Mason Riggle but then how many things you think you know but you have no experience of?

@ivankiss There is no knower from a nondual perspective. Nonduality would mean collapse of knower - known into absolute being. @Mason Riggle so direct experience is only source of knowledge? And you cannot know anything you've not experienced is what you're saying?

I come back to this topic of free will and choice and I'm stil stuck in the perspective that choice is completely illusion. there is no choice. You are not choosing anything. And I mean anything. Everything. You are not in control of what's happening right now . Its easy to prove if you try to imagine the thought you're going to have in the next 10 seconds. In a sense.. I'm not writing this.. and you are not reading this. It's all being played and it's all karma. Circumstances are infinitely complex and destiny is inevitble. As the awareness watching the movie.. we have zero influence over the plot. "You're not doing it, it's doing you" - Alan Watts You didn't choose your birth as this particular human.. In this particular world.. In this particular part of the world.. In this particular Era.. To this particular family.. With this particular genetics.. With this particular gender.. With this particular look.. Yada yada..you didn't choose the language that you are speaking.. You didn't choose your upbringing.. You didn't choose your cultural conditioning.. You don't choose your heart beat.. You don't choose your thoughts.. You don't choose your actions.. You don't choose your reactions.. You don't choose what you agree with.. You don't choose what you disagree with.. You don't choose your beliefs.. your desires.. your traits your moods.. your habits.. your chances.. your anything lol...simply because you are not real as an individual. you yourself are a thought or at a best a continuity of conditioned thoughts been shaped by your environment. Any new and nuanced thoughts on the topic of free will appreciated

@ivankiss so are you saying that everything that appears to be not my choice as the small self is actually my choice as the big Self? So when we identify ourselves as the whole universe everything becomes our will? Is it a matter of the correct identity?

@myLove OK god. Cool

@ivankiss I guess it comes from observing direct experience plus contemplating what aspects of my life I did actually choose. And as I pointed out in OP. From birth to death.. it seems like I'm on a ride in which I'm not the driver of. Did you make any choice to find read this thread today? I guess when you analyze the moment of taking the action.. It turns out there is no order or reason behind our thoughts and actions. It's all so random and chaos. It also has to do with the illusion of the "chooser". When it's seen cleary that the sense of individuality is illusion.. It's hard to then make a case that "you" have a choice when there is no you to begin with.(as a separate entity).

The more I do this work the more it becomes clear to me that I don't know anything. Conceptualization comes to an end and you are left with raw experience. Because this work is fundamentally about shedding all falsehood and locating absolute truth. And what do you get when you seriously sit down and deconstruct your mind and Everything. Every thought..belief.. Idea.. Concept.. Ideology.. Observation.. Discrimination and motivation. Whether it be science.. Philosophy.. Religion.. Spirituality.. Or anything else. Your awareness of the content of direct experience is the only thing you know to be for sure. And still. . That awareness.. What is it? Where is it? How is it.?why is it? When is it?...... ?‍♂️Jack shit my brotha. What's The relationship between awakening and not knowing? Is awakening the ultimate not knowing? Or is it in The opposite direction?

But then what's the difference between ordinary people's not knowing and the enlightened not knowing, so to speak? Look at ordinary people. You ask them, explain the universe. They'll say, fuck knows. Which is essentially where we are all at here. The difference is, they've accepted it and ARE MAKING THE BEST OF WHATEVER THE FUCK THIS IS. They don't need to chase it. Isn't that real enlightenment?

The problem is we don't know what's the person who is killing himself is going through. We can't put ourselves in their shoes. You never know maybe you will reach a point in your life where killing yourself seems like the only option left. I'm not with demonizing suicide as if life is always net positive and death is always net negative. It (death) exists for a reason.

This is really bad news. So sorry to hear about your loss @SoonHei As a tangent...i don't think anyone in this forum including Leo is to be held responsible for his suicide. Obviously no one here supports or encourages suicide. He was an adult and responsible for his behavior.

Does that turn you on?

I wrote this random little poem. Doesn't have a specific meaning or point but I just thought I'd share it with you I called it "Mind full of Mars". I woke up this morning, more tired than the night before. With my eyes sealed shut.. I made my way to the bathroom door. Rubbing my eyes.. I saw stars. I felt myself spin. I opened my eyes.. but my dream state didn’t end. Looking in the mirror.. I saw my eyes black as space. I would say they were just as captivating too. When will I merge back into reality? When will this world fade back into the deepest part of my subconscious? I’ve been running all night in a vivid wonderland.. but now I should come back home.. back down to Earth. I step into the shower.. and through the hot water.. feel my spirit return to my body. As the boiling water runs down my sore form.. I feel a piece of me come back and another disappear. I’m not meant to be HERE. I am meant to be there. I long to bypass this worldly routine.. to close my eyes.. and drift back asleep. Earth is where I reside.. but Mars is in my mind. I am an extraterrestrial.. among my own kind.