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No we are on the same wavelength. So basically you are saying Morality is entirely subjective. We made the term. If you look at wild animals, they leave their children alone in fields. And guess what? We do that very same thing, some of us at least. Most of us consider it immoral, yet some of us do it. I mean, we literally burnt people for praying to the “wrong God” as if there’s one in the first place. So, yeah. Morality, eh? So much for that. I’m not saying go kill people, but I’m saying that there are some who believe it’s fine to kill people. If morality were objective, everyone would think the same way and have a universal system by which they could categorize people with ease. For example, apparently, it’s wrong to criticize religion (in certain cases, like insulting the Bible) because it’s unholy, but when religious people say that gays are spawns of Satan, they use the excuse of having the right to practice religion under the 1st Amendment. So, yeah. Morality is nothing more than just a twig which we bend and twist and cut in half whenever we feel like it suits our purpose.

No there is a difference..Judaism believes that only belonging to semetism is the ticket to be cherished by god. Which is just a local god. Only for the Jews. And Christianity fucks with your IQ by saying 1=3. It's one god but in three forms . Jesus is both god and the son of God at the same time . You don't get that in Islam. Islam makes more sense than Judaism or Christianity. Although its still just fantasy and nonsense.

I didn't understand anything.

Actually Islam is the most senscial religion that exists today. Its very straightforward in its ontology. There is a one and only god who created everything. And created human beings to worship him .and whoever worships him will go to heaven and have an endless sex with hot women (not sure what's the equivalent of that for women lol). And if you don't worship him or disbelieve in him he will send you to the hellfire to burn and cry for eternity . Seems pretty straightforward. Not implying that this bullshit is true per se .just that it's the most straightforward bullshit(religion)from all the kinds of other bullshits(religions )out there .

Yes I agree . We had morality long before Judaism or Christianity was a thing. Civilisations that have never heard the word of God have moral and ethical systems. And the reason is much simpler than a god: we need morality to have social cohesiveness if the group is big enough. So every time the tribe becomes bigger than the “monkey sphere” ,the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships .. it invents some form of morality.

I define Morality as a system of principles and values concerning people's behaviour, which is generally accepted by a society or by a particular group of people. I don't think It would be wrong to say that morality comes from spirituality because if one is aware of spirituality then the person will be familiar with what is good ..bad and he will know that wrong doing results wrong and good doings gets good result. For most people religion is the source of morality .because we all know that there is some supernatural power of this universe which has created and and operating this universe, it gives us the fruits of our good and bad deeds. That's according to the religious worldview. But today's society has completely forgotten moral values & We can say that distance of new generation from spiritualism is the main reason behind falling the moral standard day by day . In ancient times, our ancestors used to take spirituality as an important aspect of their lives, but today there is only hypocrisy and hypocrisy left in the name spirituality in the present time. Spirituality is coming to an end in the human being. As a result of that moral values are decreasing day by day. But I think we can have morality without God. the nice thing about morality without God is that it can actually be based on wholly objective standards such as the innate sense of empathy that most humans are born with and empirical evidence of what sorts of behaviors are conducive to our working together successfully as a highly social species.

Yes but the whole problem is where do you get your high values from ?you take them from the bible (the 10 commands )? Or do you just come up with them ? See because for religious people, morality doesn't make any sense without God. And that's what lead to moral nihilism. Which is the subject of this thread . Some people think : what? God doesn’t exist? Whoohoo! I’m free to kill, rape, thieve, and litter, and won’t have to worry about consequences after I die. Also, I have heard “God will forgive me” so many times from believers that I’ve come to the conclusion that belief in God has a negative impact on morality. If you can do anything you want, and God will forgive you…why would you want to be moral? Is there be morality without a belief in an entirely imaginary being?(aka the god ) Yes, there can. I have an excellent moral understanding. I don’t steal, lie, cheat, murder, rape or defile anyone or anything, and I manage to not do any of those things without the abiding fear that if i do, I might spend an eternal afterlife being tortured by a loving creator. I just don’t do them because I’m not a dick.

Yes .you see, my friend was not moral, and used religion as a crutch for his lack of morality up until that point, and had to learn the hard way that you need to develop a morality all on your own. If you think morality comes only from God, you’re making the same mistake. You’re amoral, but doing as you’re told. (Note: Not immoral. Amoral.) Im not saying sex is a bad thing absolutely. But relative to the religious world-view. All three Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) actually prohibit sex before marriage. So there's that .

I have a friend who used to be Muslim. When he stopped being Muslim, he said to me “I can now have sex and drink without consequence”. I have never facepalmed harder. Some people are really so animalistic and primitive in their behaviour that they need an external authority (in most cases a religion )that tells them what's right and what's wrong . They can't derive them for themselves

I actually agree .Long before there were governments or religions the various tribes and extended families of mankind had rules of behavior and rules of sharing. Humans are by their nature social beings and some set of protocols will emerge in any human community.

@Kksd74628 Law is simply codified and enforced morality. If a society feels strongly about a particular moral value, it would create a law to enforce it. If it doesn't, then it won't. Law is not possible without morality, but morality will exist with or without law.

So are you saying that morality is intuitive? Why can't morality be selected consciously? Why do we need prisons and law to make order between people? Are we still not mature /evolved enough to handle morality and be kind and good to each others without fearing the law (or the hellfire in the case of religious people)?

@Judy2 this is not something new I come up with . I've had similar ideas about reproduction and not bringing new lives into this world for almost 12 years now,and I was almost always ridiculed for that by my friends and family. I didn't know back then that philosophers old and new have spoken along the same lines. Now having read the works of Schopenhauer,Cioran and Benatar I'm more than convinced that I am right,but I also do not want to impose this view on anyone else.if someone wants to bring a child into this bleak and mostly hopeless world,they should do it and let their most prized creation suffer. Even Jesus could not avoid the excruciating misery of this world so a mere mortal will most certainly face very serious hardships here. my main question here..: is it ethical to bring a new life into existence without asking for their permission to live in this bleak world? I think that it becomes immoral to have children when one realizes how screwed the world is, that it is going to be a trying place for future generations, and yet one’s selfish desire to be a mom or dad outweigh the likely challenges their children will experience when they’re gone. I think having l children is one of the most selfish acts you can do bringing another life to this world when there are other children out there in need of a loving home. I hope I’ll never see the appeal of having a genetic mini-me. To deny a child a home in order to fulfill your fantasy of having a DNA descendant is entirely self-serving. People don’t bear children because they want to sustain the species, they do it because they want a child. Overpopulation is already a problem. There are already too many children and not enough safe, adequate homes. I can’t see why people aren’t screaming this from the rooftops; why there aren’t billboards everywhere telling people to adopt.

Lol. How cute ?? Seriously tho..are you planning to get married and have children? Its so much responsibility. And you have to not cheat on your wife .whereas if you don't marry you get to have sex with whoever you want. But more importantly..having a children is unethical .Not only are these children going to grow up and contribute to global warming but we don’t really have a fun future ahead of us. At this rate we’re looking at extinction. Apparently in 100 years clouds may actually start to disappear. It’s not ethical to bring creatures into existence knowing what the future holds. And most of us know. We’re aware. But unfortunately, people don’t think about that. They think in the now and their own future. “But I WANT babies!” Yeah and your kid is gonna want air to breath after you leave her in this world you helped destroy. Life is bleak even if we weren’t facing extinction. We’re very aware of death and it drives much of what we do. Living knowing that you’re going to end, maybe horribly, maybe slowly, is terrible. You’re going to face the death of those you love. Your parents. Your spouse. Your friends. It’s inevitable, unless you die early.

Well I'm actually a nihilist and an antinatalism advocator. I believe existence as whole in general is a scary and awful place full of misery and suffering. Despite few moments of pleasure here and there..the overall tone of existence is negative. So who's us to force these babies to come to this fucked up world without asking for their permission?

@Eph75 The SELF does exist. It’s just not divided into many. It is ONE self or Pure Awareness looking through the eyes of all the forms it takes from human, to animal, to plant, to alien. If by ‘self’ we mean that which we refer to as the “I” living in an individual body-mind with all of its particular physical, chemical and genetic features with distinguishing traits and tendencies of thought and feeling and perception, then that ‘self’ does not exist. That self is illusory. If by SELF we mean that which we refer to as the “I” which KNOWS or is AWARE of our experience, then that Self does exist. It just doesn’t exist APART from any ‘other’ self. To be more precise, the SELF does not exist per say, because existence means to ‘stand out’ from. If the SELF is ALL THERE IS (infinite and omnipresent), then it cannot ‘stand out’. It must be WHOLE, undivided - not apart from Reality, but Reality itself. ISNESS or BEING itself. I Am - WE ARE or WE SHARE - our very BEING.

I think in modern terms.."we Appeal to the admin to change the rules of the universe for us". Usually people call this “praying to God for a miracle.” Though billions of people have managed to do this with some success, there’s a slight problem. We mostly don’t know the actual laws of the universe well enough to say for sure how many miracles actually involved changing those laws. That isn’t really any less true today than it was thousands of years ago. The much bigger problem is that everything is up to the admin, if “God” doesn’t feel like answering our appeal, or feels it can be reasonably solved without changing the rules of the universe for us, well then we’re not going to get the empirical evidence of miracles being real. if we had enough knowledge of the rules of the universe to distinguish it from those rules happening to work out in a way that’s favorable to us. The more metaphysical problem is…why does it matter? Since a sufficiently advanced being could answer our prayers without needing to actually change the rules of the universe rather than just use them expertly to solve problems.

In case you are not trolling ..? I'm pointing to the simple fact that sensory experience is happening right now .you are seeing objects .hearing sounds. Smelling stuff and so forth. That is what I call first order knowledge. And it's the only certain thing in the world.

What about deep sleep? It seems like Perfect nothingness. As if nothing ever happened and never existed. It seems like there is no consciousness during deep sleep.. It's not even dark, black or empty.. It's so much nothing that even the concept of nothing isn't it..... What happens exactly during deep sleep? Ramana maharshi used to say 'you are closer to your true nature during deep sleep'.

? Agreed. I call it sensory experience. Like what Aristotle says that all knowledge of what is true and real must begin with "First Knowledge", defined as our sensory experience. The way that I know that 1+1=2 is because I experience it. You can't prove it to me the way that you can prove the Pythagorean Theorem. Similarly, says Maimonides in the same vein, how do you know you are alive? You experience it. That's First Knowledge. So while everything may be an illusion, maybe I'm a cat dreaming I'm a man, the way we relate to this world (dream or otherwise) is based on the starting point of our sensory experience.

You answered only one half of the question..Still you didn't justify how are you certain that you are ? Based on that, we can't analyze who and what we are. Obviously not the body, and most likely not the mind since we have these. If we aren’t either of these it’s almost impossible to work out ourselves what we are because we are limited by the restrictions of the mind and body.

So what is the truth in your direct experience right now ? Is hell true? Do you see hell anywhere you look ?or is it just a belief? What about people being "imaginary "..why don't you go yell at a bodybuilder "Hey, you are such an imaginary asshole " ..or are you afraid that he's gonna beat you into pieces? If you claim something to be true . Prove it .provide some evidence. Test it against actual reality . What you really need to work on is carving out the distinction between reality and beliefs.

Stop feeding this solipsistic nihilistic stupid narrative and you will spare yourself a lot of suffering. BTW my comment was just to poke some fun. It's not meant seriously. I don't believe in hell.

@Holykael what's the biggest problem in your life? I don't believe all this rambling has anything to do with God BS ..there has to be something going terribly wrong in your life ..Do you suffer from a chronic disease? A death of loved ones ? Addiction of some kind ? What is it ? Please tell me .I'm trying to help you out of this funk because I once was there .

She's probably burning in hell right now. So let her alone.