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@Razard86 thoughts are forms, aren't they? Whether you're thinking in images, or symbols, or in abstract concepts..or your mind is just chattering aimlessly away..it all involves the creation of some sort of mental forms. So, the reason thought is incapable of grasping Ultimate Reality, is that thought is form and form cannot get hold of formlessness. In fact, in a certain sense, form actually hides formlessness. If you're trying to see white light, but you're always wearing colored glasse..well, you're never going to see the white light, are you? You may be looking right at the light, but you still won't be able to see its whiteness, because the light will take on whatever color your glasses are. It's the same when you're trying to apprehend the formless nature of Ultimate Reality. If you're always looking for formlessness through form, how are you ever going to see formlessness?

The same ineffable substance out of which everything is made out of. Thoughts are no exception. The cold harsh truth Is that nobody fucking knows what it is . It's pure being .nothingness. pure magic. But these are just words .

It's not mental masturbation. You see the issue here ? Is you don't take these kind of topics seriously. You think it's just a waste of time and it won't change how reality is . But that's completely false. These kind of realizations/deep awakenings/insights are what's mandatory to live a deep satisfying existence . But if you're satisfied with your hard nosed skeptic materialist type of mentality..then by all means..go for it . Thanks for the conversation anyways. Cheers!

First, there is no past. After all, that’s what “past” means .. it’s gone. Yes, we have memories, but however useful for doing things, our memories are only that. They are not the past. There is no past. Similarly, there is no future. By definition, it has not yet arrived. We have our fantasies, which are projections of our memories, but fantasies are not the future. So, there is no future. That leaves us with now. How short (in time) is “now?” Well, it’s pretty darned short. It’s gotta be shorter than a second, because the first part of the second is already gone before we get to the end of it. So, if we cut it in half, and then cut that in half, and keep doing this until the cows come home, we’ll still be snipping away at that little bit of time. Here’s the truth: “Now” is so small that it is not only unmeasurable, it is analogous to a “point” in space. It has no duration. But you are failing to grasp the obvious. This clearly shows who's "noob " and who's not when it comes to basic spiritual knowledge. And I basically agree .I never said you were or will be in present. You are ever-present in present. Try to understand the point first before you go disagreeing with no basis.

@Gesundheit2 look..you are either awake or not . By doubting the present moment you show that you are completely lost in fantasy land .it's gonna take you years of work to achieve full awakening/liberation (if you even care about them ,I doubt it ). If you can't even get that the present moment is not a concept . The present is all that exists in our experience of time. You can not be in the future or in the past. Of course you can dream of the past, or how you imagined it you remember what happened, sort of but you usually have no vivid recollection of being there. You have literally forgotten nearly all your life so far. You can also suppose or guess the future and be even more wrong. You don't even know the hours and days you will have until you die, let alone what will happen in the world and with you in it in that long or short time. All that you have is the present moment, but it is completely real. If you can really be in the present moment and not in your dream or your imagination of it, you are one of the few humans at that moment who are really there. And you will have greater chances of becoming awakened .

@Razard86 the Buddha has taught since the Dawn of time that "form is formlessness. And formlessness is form ".. What do you make of that ? The problem is you imagine a difference between "nothingness " and this very experience that you are having now . Notice that you are imagining " dreamless state " in favor of what's actual (which is the present). You are literally doing it .you are just fantasising. form is what we live out as an incarnation. Somewhere along the line in that story, we awaken. We begin to realize we are not only the incarnation, that there is more to us than meets the eyes, and we begin to realize that the more that we think we are, we are. That leads us to re-look at our experiences and to open to new experiences that allow us to enter into other planes of consciousness, other perspectives, other ways of looking at it. But you seem so stuck in your perspective. @Cykaaaa fair enough .Im full of it .

Since it is a definite point (or period) in time, the present isn't really relative. However, it IS subjective to the time span that the person is referring to i.e. the length of the present period of time. "Present time" could refer to the current second, minute, hour, day, the present week, month, year, decade, century, millennium, age, period, epoch, era, eon, etc. So at this very second, I am in the present moment... Now, that moment has passed and is part of the past, but I am still in this present minute... (1 hour later)... I am still in this present day! ... and so on. Got it ? When did I say in this thread that I'm enlightened?

This depends on what do you mean by "taking them seriously ". What I mean is I'm sure of them .they are not just ideas .they have become a living reality for me . ing? Like what's the difference between that and becoming relatively conscious of that same thing, or some other thing(s It means simply that you are 100% certain about them .because it's direct experience. You are absolutely conscious of this screen right now. The present moment is not a paradigm .it's the background upon which all paradigms appear and disappear. Notice that you don't have to "believe " in the present moment. It's prior to all of that . does not create truth. I agree .it's the other way around . Truth creates overconfidence. You Don't need the Internet to realize that the present moment is all that exists How ? Of course. Who told you I'm here to teach you or anybody else?I'm just sharing my thoughts with community .I make two kinds of threads if you haven't noticed . Question threads and what you call "teaching " threads .which are really just me sharing my insights in hope for feedback or in hope it can help someone in their spiritual quest. It won't make sense to you unless you have some awakening experiences.

I mean how hard it is to understand? THIS right here is all there is ..the present moment is all there is . Have you ever experienced anything other than here and now ? What is "death " but a belief? What are "others " but something you are imagining? I'm not asking you to believe me or take me for my word. Look and see for yourself in your own direct experience. Is this guy talking nonsense or is it literally actually true ? I get it though ..just because I haven't taken psychedelics then I have no credibility in talking about spirituality or metaphysics? That's a limitation that I don't buy into. I mean I'm not coming up with quantum mechanics theory here..I'm pointing out something extremely obvious but often overlooked ...the only thing one can be absolutely, 100% sure is that “I am” or “I exist”. You cannot doubt that because there must be someone or something to ask this question. As what I exist .. that is something to be found, though. Experiences are real. Can you image any experience that is unreal? The question is about interpreting these experiences. We can call interpretations of experiences unreal or illusory because they are a product of the mind. They are merely ideas, not our direct experience anymore. Therefore, existence is real. In fact, it is all there is. All experiences and all ideas appear in existence, including this idea. So how hard to believe that these are genuine insights?

I take my insights seriously because I've become absolutely conscious of them. So when I said I've become conscious that everything is imaginary or that death is imaginary or that the present moment is all there is...I'm 100% certain of these things. The problem is you are not open to the possibility of awakening. You think we are just kidding here. Awakening is a very real thing and many sages throughout history have awoken to the same existential truths (Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Ramana maharishi etc). Misunderstandings can happen because we don't think alike. Words can be misinterpreted and actions can be misunderstood. Many times, we don't look beyond what has been said and done and this leads to conflicts .Being misunderstood can deeply hurt and it equally hurts if you feel someone you respect has intentions to cause harm. In any situation, we need to look at such situations with an open, accepting, and forgiving mind. Anyways ..I hope that our future interactions in the forum are gonna be decent and healthy . Good luck in your journey. Whatever it may be .

@Razard86 no I completely understand. That wasn't the part of disagreeing with him because he thinks realizing that the separate self is illusory is all that there is to enlightenment. And I was simply telling him there is much more . Regarding your comment ..it is both real and unreal. Since everything is in a flux and nothing is permanent, the world is unreal. Even science says that what appears as true is not the reality. But the observer of the change is permanent. But everything has a temporary reality. For example, if I am hungry, I cannot just say that my hunger is a dream. It has a temporary reality. Hunger has to be satisfied. But hunger is not permanent reality. As, soon as I eat, hunger is gone. But the entity who was hungry and ate food is still there. It is permanent. So, experience is impermanent but the experiencer is permanent. Everything in the world is unreal except the Self. This Self is God. This is spiritual knowledge.

@Gesundheit2 I mean we used to be good friends at the beginning of my arrival on this forum. I even asked for you to come back when Leo banned your previous account and we used to PM each other and it was all nice. What happend lately ? Why are you being trollish in your behavior with me ? And not just with me ..I see that with almost everyone in the forum . No wonder you've been banned from the forum numerous times in the past .but you always come back . Why ? What are you getting from this forum ?if the " reality is dream paradigm " doesn't resonate with you then why are you wasting your time on this forum arguing with me and Leo and everyone else about it ? And in going back to the subject of this thread. we are immortal Souls. Unfortunately, we do not realize what is enlightenment. Enlightenment is overcoming ignorance. The goal of enlightenment first of all, is liberation from misery on earth, from the pain of the body, misery of the mind, agony of the ego. The goal of enlightenment is liberation from rebirth. And when there is liberation from rebirth, the goal is immortality, the goal is unification with the Divine. If you are at stage orange in your development (basically buying into a materialist metaphysics) then why are you bothering yourself trying to "debunk " enlightenment and mysticism? You could do better .

@Gesundheit2 "Oh I'm such a smart ass being a skeptic of everything taught in this forum ". ..that's the vibe I get from you bro. I am ONLY answering just to help interested people come out of many misconceptions . From what I understand, once one realizes the Self meaning that you are no longer identified with anything that changes (like the mind or body) then everything else is gravy. When you realize that you are that nondual awareness both transcendent and immanent in all creation then you see that you've always been and will always be "immortal". But not you as a human personality, you as that fundamental awareness beyond all description. That is perhaps more accurately eternal rather than immortal. we all exist as eternal sparks of divinity experiencing endless forms and realities in some sort of continuity which enlightenment gives us conscious control over, but all of that still happens within the Absolute or the Self. If you actually "do the work " instead of mentally masturbating and being so full of yourself doubting this stuff ..you will realize that you are not the body .this is ABC spirituality #101. How could you be the body when it's always changing ? Science tells us the every 10 years all of our cells get replaced by new ones. So how can you be the same body throughout the course of your life. You are that which is aware of the body. This will take you just 30 minutes everyday 9f practicing meditation to realize. But unfortunately you are not doing the work to awaken . You are just here to doubt everything and everyone. Which is kinda sad to see.

The false identity will die(the human body ) The real you (consciousness/being/nothingness) will never die . I love this quote by Sri Nisargadatta maharaj :"the real will never die .the unreal never lived ".

Death is in the future, isn't it so ? Now what makes you believe in the future? You've never experienced anything but the present. If you become so present, the notion of future will disappear from your mind along with the notion of death .

What exactly do you find confusing?

@VeganAwake whatever floats your boat. ❤

In what sense do you mean that reality =imagination? Why can't you unimagine the walls of your house and bust through it ? What are the limits of imagination?

Religions have called death the only truth and afterlife as the gift (or curse) that we get depending on our conduct on this planet. But I don't believe in this nonsense. Death is an illusion but not because the individual is an illusion (I somewhat agree with this claim ) but because death is in the future. And the future is at best a belief. no one really knows what lies ahead. However, one American medical doctor and scientist, Robert Lanza, in his book, Biocentrism, states that death could actually be a door to an endless number of universes. He firmly believes in the many-worlds theory and states that death doesn’t exist in these scenarios since all of these possibilities are taking place at the same time and the only reason we feel ‘alive’ is because of the energy operating in our brains. According to him, it’s just the energy and as per the laws of physics, energy can neither be created or destroyed, it just shifts from one state to another. When we die, there’s a break in our linear connection of times and space . And then we continue to exist through other people. Until you realize that everything is you..and everyone is you ..then you are not fully awake. I know you have made up your mind about what awakening really means (the realization that there is no separate self /aka non-duality). But I think you are limiting yourself to a great degree when you just narrow it down to this one little aspect .there are many aspects of awakening that you have yet to awaken to .but no worries I will not try to force my worldview on you .to each his own.?

Not sure what do these have to do with anything.

Oh yeah

Yup . time is controversial. It feels real, always there, inexorably moving forward. Time has flow, runs like a river. Time has direction, always advances. Time has order, one thing after another. Time has duration, a quantifiable period between events. Time has a privileged present, only now is real. Time seems to be the universal background through which all events proceed, such that order can be sequenced and durations measured. The question is whether these features are actual realities of the physical world or artificial constructs of human mentality. Time may not be what time seems . this smooth unity without parts, the ever-existing stage on which all happenings happen.

You are exactly correct. Past lives and next lives are imaginary. They are just beliefs .and reincarnation is a Hindu belief but its popular in the new age community and western spiritual communities because they think every idea that comes from ancient Eastern wisdom must be correct. But that's not the case . Past and future are imaginary. Only consciousness/present/direct experience is real.

@Gesundheit2 why are you always disagreeing with Leo? Do you think that makes you appear smart or cool ? I'm asking because it's hard to take you seriously when all you do in this forum is disagreeing with Leo about everything in his teachings. Then why are you on his forum if you think he Is full of shit ? And btw..no its not mere philosophy or word play . I've explained clearly that the future is something you are imagining. all you have is the present. Which might disappear instantly for no reason at all because there is nothing that makes it glued at all. The future has zero actuality .and since death is defined as a bad event that will happen to you in the future..then death is imaginary too and you are immortal so long as you are still alive . I find it difficult or impossible to present an argument against what has been said here .but go ahead and explain yourself if you have valid reasons for disagreement and not just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

Totally worth it .I take : Zyprexa Prozac Invega Few months ago I suffered from extreme anxiety and depression and panic attacks. Now after taking these medications for a few months I feel totally different and the anxiety and mood swings have completely vanished