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@Sincerity an example of that absolute independent knowledge you're speaking about is the raw qualia I'm experiencing now (stripped of all interpretation and conceptualization ) ?

The true knowledge you come to know personally can never be 100% independent from everything that you've heard from others. I will think about this . Needs testing.

Can there be contemplating for myself from scratch ? I think it is impossible and nonsensical. I have to use a certain language like English. Even the logic I go through is borrowed from other resources..like books I've read or videos I've listened to. But also in the other side what's wrong with having presumptions while contemplating?

I've been contemplating this recently and I wish to share this with you guys . Anything I come to know from the external world is prone to error and falsehood . It can never be trusted as an absolute truth.. Because of the very fact that it is derived from the outside world ..which automatically means it has been known by others and now delivered to you..but if it is not derived by you personally..how can you trust it ? Even if Leo or your Guru tells you something.. you should never trust it but you should validate it in your own direct experience..including this very advice from me right now..and this just goes on in a circle and becomes obsessive and meaningless. Like "this statement is false". I think it's a very nasty epistemic problem. This entanglement of everything . just the fact that obviously everything everywhere across all places..and in all dimensions or times or whatever ..everything is interconnected. Like for example you cannot separate the observer from the observed..Or this moment from the next moment . Etc . If you ask AI or Google about any question or information then you have to be skeptical ..because what the hell is the very origin of that information and how was it known at all ? Likewise you can't trust other people. Truth has to be derived personally. But aren't I creating a false duality here which is just circular and absurd? Because there cannot be a personal experience without an other experience..and the two are tied Togther. And if you push this inquiry further to the ultimate end you arrive at the conclusion that since self =other or at least interrelated then it doesn't matter whether you go through the work of discovering truth or whether your Guru spoon-fed you it . It's tricky.

What begins must end . What was born must die. What didn't begin can't end .what was never born can never die .

You "completely break free " every night when you enter into deep sleep..at least temporarily. Deep sleep gives you a glimpse or a little taste of absolute freedom and obviously of formlessness and unconditional self. Yes ..right now I am a finite human being apparently. But I've had many glimpses in the past that being a limited form like that of a human is not the ultimate nature of myself ..and I'm sure you too have had.

Yes it is . "The truth shall set you free" instead of making you more attached to egoic tendencies . Truth is not about adding relative or conceptual knowledge to yourself..nothing wrong with that but that's just the opposite of enlightenment . The truth we are seeking is remembering our unconditioned state which is prior to our birth in these bodies . Because we are conditioned right now by being a body and a mind living in a world of lack and responsibilities and problems. All these things don't please or entertain anyone on this earth. Because it doesn't resonate with our unconditional self which is free of everything. And you won't find true fulfilment without remembering who you really are. By seeking more conditioned knowledge you are actually deepening your conditioning and bondage instead of breaking free.

Sure no worries..you will pay for the Shisha though 😂 Is that you escaping from answering my questions though ? Because I take that as "I don't know".

This gets us nowhere. Too absolutist . Use whatever term you want. You are apparently the VeganAwake human being living a very specific life with very meaningful events .almost like a novel or movie script. How does that fit into the big picture of existence or creation as a whole? Is it just coincidence? It doesn't appear like it is at all. They are concepts pointing to something which is NOT conceptual . The concept "the kingdom of heaven "that Jesus talks about in the Bible is a metaphore for awakening. You didn't answer the question. Why are you currently not a cow ? You don't know any of that for a fact . Humble yourself and admit you don't know what death is or what comes after it .

But this assumes the death of the body is the ultimate end of everything and there is no Karma or further incarnations. If so..then Why are you currently incarnated in that body doing what you're doing living that specific life going through those certain experiences and why I'm having mine and not yours? It's our karma. Why are you not currently living the life of a cow in a slaughter shop? You don't literally believe after death its just eternal darkness? Even science doesn't say this anymore .countless evidence that conscious experience survives the death of the body. Look into near death experiences.

Your fear is irrational because entering sleep and waking are not under your conscious control. There is no on and off switch you click on to go from sleeping to dreaming to waking up .it happens by itself and gradually.

Which is a very big reason to take action ASAP towards fixing your relationship with everyone you know. Whatever evil they did to you (or vice versa ) is not really worth having any hatfulness between each other. We are all one in the end .

Sadhguru is not a real guru . He is a celebrity guru. He doesn't teach actual spirituality like what Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta Maharshi did. He has turned spirituality into a business. Never resonated with him. And Leo is a philosopher..intellectual and spiritual teacher combined .not your stereotypical guru either .

OK maybe every once in a while ...Maybe providing further explanation why he thinks this is full of shit ..maybe adding a friendly emoji to ensure that we are just friends at the same level . The other thing is this is not the first time. They both troll Leo a lot .and yes the bottom line is obviously Leo is more developed than them and us . So does that mean this is a cult or echochamber ? No. But Leo is the "head coach ". We are "students ". Logically it must follow we treat him with humble. In a reasonable way ofc.

Like flat out insulting him like Carl's comment above without providing more context . Why should that be done ? Listen . Please stop .let's not derail the topic and create drama .