Happy Lizard

Christians think Jesus came out of a literal virgin. These perfection standards were common for that era. This whole thread is about deconstructing christianity and islam, that the two religions actually point towards the same 'truth' — God, love, good deeds etc. and lots of members here are completely dismissing the talk in the original video, and insted comparing Mohammad to Jesus. Yes, Mohammad was not the literal incarnation of god like Jesus — that If Jesus actually existed and wasn't an allegorical figure. he did act like a religious leader, and ordered to fight wars in order to spread what was in his own mind the greats good for humanity. but give the dude a break, Mohammad existed in an area where people would slay wild beasts for fun, no sane human would speak his mind in the midst of such people. his deeds/vision/dedication to truth and spreading what he was supposedly ordered to spread -islam- was truly selfless and messiah like. he spoke against slavery and the act of Female infanticide back in the 6th century, when his head could've been easily chopped off for just that. him sleeping with a child is what was normal in that era, of course not acceptable nor defendable. your criticisms is justifiable, but this it's coming form righteousness/limited view/close mindedness not the act of finding a flaw in a thing for the grater good of the other aka good sense making. This Mohammad vs Jesus debate is essentially a childish debate about who's guru/spiritual figure is better than the other's

Haven't seen Steve Macintosh being mentioned here, he was a part of integral institute, and is now leading a movement towards what he calls post progressive-left, which is coined label to represent system thinking left without the using the colors from the integral theory.

For some reason, to me this this is way easier and way more approachable -both the way you described it and bashar’s- than the all the ways leo has been trying to say it. It feels like this is what Leo is intending to say but he’s getting entangled in language/wording/delivery and the unique way his brain works -he has shared before that he’s an INTP, and his way of understanding things is very conceptual. * I have in sometimes found it harder to understand what Leo says, but when looking up other sources the whole image kind of comes together and then I understand what he is saying Thats where my problem is : Leo’s way of talking about it, not what it is.

you took a U turn on our conversation just as well, I can't pin point/define your position neither would you.

true that's exactly what I meant by my post. it's absurd but the left is too busy to see it. and is the 'evil' statment good? neither is right in my opinion. I wasn't defending the left/green, we agree on a lot from what I understood from your post, neither saying 'all muslims are bad' or 'all muslims are good' is good or right or thoughtful.

green IS ridiculous! that's the point, though it's wrong to think that's it's stupid. it's just got a fire of rebel in it

what is woke thinking ? what are you referring to ? there's a movment towards being post progressive-left now/yellow I think most lefties are green proper it's been too long in America that green has existed, it's not so hard to define now like it was 50 years ago. who's ever on the left is on board with most green values I think.

the points you bring are grate, whoever here's my take as to why? most of this I think is probably what I call "white guilt", unfortunately but also not very strangely, white American have conflicted between being white and being christian. they asks themselves 'who are we' and the answer is ' we are white christian'. This is a shallow understanding of what white means and a misunderstanding of context ironically since green/left is very aware of context. the left/green is very aware of oppressed people and of racial issue, it tends to want to include at all cost, and anything that breaks the community/the oneness/ the relationships between countries/nationalities/races is a no go! There's a heart openness at green/left which can not be explained by facts, not because green/left is stupid but because it's in this stage to be loving and inclusive. in a sense you can think about this as the green/left's gym, they are in it to be as inclusive and loving as possible, they have strengthened there minds in critical thinking an facts, so they are just not doing gonna listen to facts because the are fed up with it anyways. guilt is guilt however, and it's better if white Christinas are more loving towards themselves and their people as others, but that doesn't come that essay unfortunately.

my mistake then, but I guess we are not accurate about who exactly are we talking about as "the left" then ?

this is a big shadow/misunderstanding of Green. here's my perspective: green (healthy educated that have included orange) sees muslim not very different from Christians or jews or hindus. "who's to say who's right, who cares anyways? let people get along, let people go beyond boundries of borders and nations, we are all one humans one kind people!" The problem is when the perspective is lost, such as the ignorance of worldviews of underdeveloped tribal and jihadi type people is mixed with the educated and less dogmatic Muslims is lumped all together as one good entity. is it true that all muslims are extremest ? there's no way a moderate muslim can exist ? where she shares respect/understanding of the difference between religions and people without being too dogmatic ? I don't think green misunderstands this or is ignorant of its existence at all.

you can search his name (and move a number of pages because of the resent posts) to see what others' interactions with him were like. and also, like I said, when he is not talking to you it sound like truth/a pointer/what we all have heard form spiritual teachers. but (my experience) when he talks to you, it's very different, it's like the video I posted -check my last edit- and when you question that you don't get anywhere with him. also, how is he not overly self promoting like some people claim? it's very subtle -> "check the dreamborad *a link to his website* " or " indeed... it's all in the emotional scale *link to website*" . like ... no one can see how subtle this was form our standpoint now? I certainly didn't, but I also just started reading the guidelines carefully just recently. thank you! I did actually feel afraid to voice this out, but our conversation is so far been constructive for me. check last edit I'm not sure why myself, but also some element of it that everyone was playing along thinking 'ok this dude gets a pass, he's enlightened right? ok then checks out!' at least that was me, which is an Idiotic way of thinking, but also very subtle to see sometimes.

that's not the case unfortunately, I urge you to check his comments and the responses to them. Most of the time people would be saying something similar to this -> ' huh? what? but this is not a fair point ? ' or ' but you do that too, this isn't helpful !'. in contrast Leo is literarily facing criticism form trolls all the time, but he does care and have changed some of his ways, And also him or any other person would give you a respond like : ' thinks for the feed back, I'll try to work on this' or gives some sort of information for you to digest. I have only seen Nahm correcting others when they ask a question, but I also could be pushing too hard on this front. maybe there's a wealth of post where he genuinely helped and changed people's lives, that I'm not taking into account, which would be a side that I'm neglecting. I agree, which is why I don't want to leave too many comments about this, I'm only doing so to discuss your points. I will say this again. it doesn't matter to me to criticize Nahm that much, I'm just pointing out what I observed, if it's too late or too disrespectful, I'm sorry everyone I truly don't mean any ill will. EDIT: I just thought this should be added to this thread, from 13:18 - 16:27

nope, I have to disagree here. it's not like people didn't speak. they did, but were given the Teflon pan treatment. Some didn't, like me, and the reason why I'm upset is that he just got too much authority and an idol status, I feel very light hearted criticizing Leo for example ,and he can choose to ban me, but Nahm has such loyal following that even with all what I say/have said people will still doubt you, I think this is wrong and no one is above criticism like that. I'm not against Nahm, if his words helped you I have no issue with that. but I had to speak out because I can be saving someone time/money/self-esteem ( form my own perspective ) by taking a bit of caution before seeking Nahm's - or anyone else for that matter- help.

he did use to talk at/tell/talk down to people a lot ... I have witnessed this in many topics yet thought that was just him , I respected him and gave authority and reverence just because everyone else was doing it. He would post things that when I'm reading, and it's not directed at me it feels true. yet when he talks/post back to me, it feels ... well, weird, similar to someone saying a bad thing about you but with a grin. even with all of that said, I just kept on thinking: "he's a mod, he deserves respect, he's obviously kind to others and others like him. whatever, maybe he's just weird with people like that." The fact that lots of people are not liking what happened, and are just now talking is not because we are vaulters that pray on dead corps, the fact is, we all didn't like it, and we all couldn't speak out, we didn't even know how to put it. Even mods are having a hard time believing us, but I also don't appreciate implying that lots of us here are traitors to talk about someone behind their back .... like, no! try to see that we are also concerned and want the best for this community as you are, it's just happing all of sudden which I can see why it's causing so much controversy. I think enough has been said here to have a critical thinking member to decide for themselves where they stand on things regarding Nahm.

@Inliytened1 I thought that was against the forum guidelines? Oh well, don’t have a problem with that regardless, just thought I read it somewhere. what my post highlights is the possibility that nahm was scamming us/some mebmers here. What kind of a spiritual teacher copies other people’s work with no permission? Anyways I leave the discussion at this respectfully.

@Tim R I don’t want to be “shitting on Nahm” or anything, I truly don’t and I want to respect mods and the rules of this forum. but from reading all the bad experiences people have had with him, I’m starting to think nahm was self promoting and possibly trolling/scamming : has anyone brought up that on his personal website/couching site, most of his material are straight rip-off of headspace app material? Literally down to every word not even some effort put to modify on it. I thought that was strange and gave me a read flag and a weird vibe, but i brushed it off thinking he must be new at making his own material and probably just took some out from headspace to start to make it easy and launch his website. I urge you guys to check this, you won’t be able to check because you have to have a subscription with headspace to have access to the meditations/written material. I do, and I assure you it’s a complete copy. I wanted to speak to nahm directly about this as I had spoken to him via zoom, but thought I shouldn’t put myself through this kind of drama, since he is a mod and I’m sure he comes through the scam filter. But this is just wrong and someone had to bring this up.

Very happy to hear you say this. And I hope this helps you too, I admire the change in attitude you’ve shown lately. I used to think your more going to be isolated and at some point leave this community or actualized.org as level of awareness increases, that kind-of got me discouraged to continue following you, and thought that you were hard to approach and wouldn’t change your style so why bother, I thought this is just how it’s going to be. I’m happy that you’re bringing yourself to understand people at different levels, and/or at least trying to put some effort to obscure some of your teachings, or have it available only to those who are willing to pay for it and are ready to go to that far. As for nham, i’ve had issues with his way of communication since I had a session with him, his communication isn’t great, kind of out of touch, at least that what I’ve thought. I know he’s a kind and good guy at heart and trying his best, but he does tend to cryptic and “tell” people what to do, instead of offering a simple advice. wish him all the best regardless F

I took this form an old post: 1. BEIGE (savanna grasslands) 2. PURPLE (the royal color of tribal chiefs and monarchs) 3. RED (hot blooded emotions and the 'fire in your eyes') 4. BLUE (the sky, the heavens, and the True (blue) believer) 5. ORANGE (radiating energy of steel in an industrial furnace) 6. GREEN (green politics, forests, and ecological consciousness) 7. YELLOW (solar power and alternative technologies) 8. TURQUOISE (the color of oceans and Earth as viewed from space) 9. CORAL (life within the deep seas) Seeing that the pattern is that with each stage the circle of concern is enlarged to include more and more, if you found a stage Coral person I'd guess they would be concerned with marine life ? or living under the sea ?? Also, I've read that stages from yellow and above start a new spiral, with each level 'mapping' to the same relative level in the old spiral, meaning yellow/beige, turquoise/purple coral/red etc. and since turquoise is noted to have a magic-connection to purple. I'd guess Coral will have power-connection to red. I'd be interested to see who is that coral person you've found >>

@Adamq8 Islamophobia is against the guidelines of this forum. I'm really shocked that you get a pass. are you really going to turn to an uptight fundamentalist who's pledged with guilt for his sexuality, and point his opinion on tribal Arabs sexuality back in the fucking 6th century ? and make that an argument about why "Mohammad is wrong!" Honestly the last thing I thought I'd do in this forum was defending islam. Bless your heart dude, saying this with actual sincerity and love. EDIT: to your defense, I can see why to westerners/Christians/non-middle Easters, Mohammad does come off as a sexual monster possibly a pedophile and a criminal. That's because you have not one clue about the environment where islam sprung was/is like. which is way I called Mehdi's defense an effective one against western prejudice, I never intended to copmpare Mohammad to christ.

This is some serious hate speech and non informed opinion. I'd like to remind you that studying islam is a part of actualized.org's work. I think @Leo Gura should have a say in this, since I'm speaking to a community moderator that's supposed to maintain a civil dialogue. you clearly haven't studied Islam and projecting this as: 'not knowing what Jesus or christianity is really about.' I can attempt to discuss your points when it's not reactionary.

Do you like anything about Iraq at all? Anything that binds you to this country ? Can you point it out in a short paragraph? Please see this as a serious question, I’ve tried to point out things to you in past threads, but it’s important to know for sure that you are not acting out blind hate, as that might lead to bad consequences for you in the future.

Post intelligently is a good way to put it. There are online forum's etiquette, the internet wasn't invented last month, most people who have been in any online forum know this, and can recognize instantly when a low-effort vs. high-effort post is posted. For example, it's universal that seeing PM messages is something Mods can see, it's normal that there are guide lines and rules and criteria, check communities on reddit if you need a reference. I guess people here are not serious or maybe they haven't had any experience in online forums, and that's fine, but I guess maybe even a better way to motivate good posts is some reward points or monthly Best post? possibly even a written guide of how to post a good topic/post with actual examples? these things also exist elsewhere online, and this would be my suggestion to Mods here and Leo.

This got me thinking about a subject I wanted to post about one time but forgot: why is this community/forum not have a subscription fee? Wouldn’t that of-set so many problems? It can be a small fee and bond people to act according to what keeps them in.

Honestly there’s so much gold material in this forum for searching and learning. It would be sad to shut it down. It’s immature to protest against a creator’s own freedom of posting whatever they like. Respect is necessary to do this work. Leo is acting as the guide to this community, sharing whats going to serve most of who follow his content. It’s not like we are paying him for his work anyways.

Is that milking or quality control? From the point of view of ralston I’m sure for the reputation of his org - does not want any of his disciples to be any nut job that has some money and some time to kill. (serious question)