Happy Lizard

What does it mean to integrate the spiral into one’s self ? Isn’t the goal of SD is that it’s clears any misunderstandings about others, who may have different values (lower or higher in the spiral from the point of perspective) and instead work as a sense-making tool to enhance cooperation among people ?(especially for companies since I guess this was it’s original purpose) So stage yellow will theoretically want to create schools, companies, businesses, societies etc, that uses the model, which in it’s turn will unite people with different values in actuality. your saying that turquoise would go even farther than that ? So what's mentioned above is not what you're suggesting to be “uniting the spiral in the real world” ?

I've watched these two episodes and what you say in your posts resonates with me, however, I don't really know where to go or what to do from there? I understand that science is making models and it will never grasp true reality this way...Is the ultimate philosophy of life is to understand reality experientially ?

how? you can't just make a mass of land disappear out of the face of the earth.

Why no ? There’s a book on Leo’s book list about this: how introverts are looked at as having something wrong about them, the book is about busting that myth and if I remember correctly, about how to best deal with introverted children. generally I think introverts get stereotyped and judge heavily if they don’t show social traits or try to jump in like extrovert do - I would’ve said “at least in the US” but I’ve experienced that also in other cultures.

came to the forum to speak about this topic: it seems like knowing how to talk, joke and throw playful comments meme is something like a second nature to some people. to me it feels like"how the hell are they doing this?! how do the find the right thing to say/put in a chat?!" it seems to me like they have a plan or like they rehearse this shit sometimes! but Idk, would love if Leo can talk about this more, as he say he's transcended being an introvert or something like that.

call me a reactionary as mush as you’d like. This type of speech is a mirror of how ISIS/extreme muslim movement leaders speak. it might appear to you like the politics and the movies your used to, big bold talk just to grab attention and increase views, yet this is exactly what got young men and women misguided and brainwashed into raiding countries and establish a khalif “ in order to go back to the golden age of islam” form someone form that part of the world who has been driven outside of their county because of this crap, this is alarming ! Idk it you people in the west are not used to seeing this or you’re too in your head to realize — possibly you’ve had a normal run as a socity for too long to realize the danger of this, but this is what terrorist start at, this is the forefront — you all better pay attention and take this serious. this is similar to in-sighting jihad, nothing good comes out of this.

fascism is rising in places like Europe, Turkey, India, Russia, some part of Japan I heard and who knows where else.. One would think that the US has it's particular problems and culture wars and that's why it's having this phenomenon arise, but why is it also arising in all of these other countries like this ?

What deep things are you talking about? I followed JP when he first emerged and seen most of his lectures, yes what he teaches is valid but in this instance he’s just over reacting. If he closes his eyes, sight out the negative shit and just stop preching for a while he’ll be in a lot better place. I would defend JP, but you know very well he’s just hard headed and won’t take a break/take it easy on himself.

(Don’t know what his health issues are) Don’t think so, it’s not his time, it’s a very slim chance that he’s going ro find a way to appreciate stage green. Essentially his political, religious and most basic views about life are at odds with the new green. The kind of world view he grow up with is: they are commies who are going to destroy society the government and eventually the world. Good luck convincing the Palestinies that the isralies where terrorized too - it’s this bad. Poor guy, not hating on him.

I think he has grounded his own life and having meaning/a reason to continue on living in the bible, as he holds it as the highest teachings. Idk what the context of Antifa/what they are talking about is all about, but the postmodern values the young generation has is basically deconstructing/questioning everything and all 'meaning' reaching a conclusion that many of the things society have held meaningful like race, religion,gender etc is meaning-less, just a construct, and that's what JP is reacting badly against. He's witnessing his whole reasons to live in the current world/his life work in psychology(I'm guessing?) being ridiculed by by the young generation. which is enough to make anyone go crazy.

Unpack this ? The whole universe is not actually there? I doesn’t help to be straight to the point when theres a lot of room for interpretation; what if i’m imagining a flat earth? Which imagination would be more true?

I think I read some where that they are like the oracles of ancient grace, they can be like a hint towards the right direction/to the what you should do in your life, it depends on you the receiver. think about it, wisdom isn’t something rational that you can explain with numbers, and in our current times there it is only sane to rely on people who’ve studied theories, for example a Financial advisor to give you advice —but only in their field. Who are you gonna rely on when it comes to general life advice or making a life choice generally ? Tarot cards kind of gives you an idea to meditate on. Osho believes in tarot cards, he has a tarot card setThat I use sometimes for fun. I think it’s magical thinking, and superstition if its taken too literally, as green turquoise and purple seems to believe in them, and those stages have magical thinking which is why they relate to each other better than other stages.

I can remember magical-thinking in my childhood, but what would mirror tribalism in a child mindset?

@Leo Gura since we have an new section in the forum, I thought i’d ask if you are planning on making a video about shamanism and/or the teachings of Don Juan. I’m interested because non of my trips I have had have any relation to what the books mentioned, and I initially bought the books following what you wrote in the book description: that you have validated through your own experiences with psychedelics, that those supernatural events in the book matches your experiments. the books mentions weird creatures, colorful auras, an egg shaped form that humans take, among other things … For anyone else who’s read the books : have you had similar trips? Any idea how to interpret it ? Whats your opinion about the validity of these books?

could you explain more? do you have a trustworthy source that I can learn about this? not sure if I should look into it since your saying this knowledge is for shamans, but I have an interest in understanding things outside of my paradigm.

My first andrey trakovsky movie! Great movie Yup very true, it will make you mediative if you allow it.

interesting, I haven't had that intent before, I just sorta take the dose and see what it does. I have read in Ram Dass books he mentions as one of his most shocking acid trips on a high dose that he had manifest things that he though was as real as anything during these trips. also Stanislav Grof mentions that he've had a OBE on acid. some people claim seen wild shit on acid, I'm not sure if it's the dose their minds or intention as you say.

@Leo Gura you are right, I think I miss interpreted the description, it does say you've found that the spiritual wisdom is dead-on accurate. I took that as some of these experiences where true, but also for its very high rating in the psychedelics section, I though they would be more than novels. my intuition guided me to believe that you've added them for the wisdom in them that's not very verbal or can't be expressed verbally, in this case I agree that they have profound lessons, some of which I have had delivered to me form my own background without me knowing. still I have one more question: since you also have a section for paranormal/super-natural, I don't understand why you include these books if you're approach is very direct and non-dual, is there any benefits in reading these books other than learning new stuff and having a curious/open-mind that you believe necessitate having them on the booklist?

of course it is, you mean to say that bridges and buildings are not a sign of a more complex, more capable mind? what you are talking about is called the pre-trans fallacy, ken wilber talks about it here :

I think your conflicting ideas, “consciousness” here does not mean “virtuousness” but cognitive-ability. meaning each stage is more cognitively capable than the last. you can’t argue that purple has more cognitive ability than orange, for example, because thats just not true.

there was this one old kid who used to bother me in the neighborhood, so my two cousins who where his age carried me up and had me do liu kang-bicycle kick from mortal combat on him as a joke I was probably a brat and a caused them a headache, but they had my back and wouldn't let anyone else mess with me.

one of my earliest memories, I was given a dinosaur-toy as gift when I had mumps as a kid. when I thought about of the significance of that to me I came up with these reasons: It met my needs of being appreciated, loved and cared for. It made me feel cared for as if I'm an important part of a 'group' - I guess in this case that would be my family- that listens to me and take care of me and doesn't neglect my needs. This was probably one of my earliest encounter with suffering as a human-being, I probably didn't know how to deal with it and what was happening, I remember being concerned and anxious, I was probably 4. Receiving that gift, I felt like I wasn't alone, and that I don't need to fear being un-loved or un-cared for. Someone (my mom) knew that I needed 'something' I myself didn't know or imagined I wanted/needed, assumed the role of a care-giver and preformed on it. I really appreciated that toy, it stayed with me for a long time and I held on to it, didn't get bored with it fast like any other toy. It held a special meaning for me. I immediately remembered that memory when I looked for the earliest and most direct time that I really felt my mother and father's love, actually I'm sure my parents where taking care of me at that point, but giving me that gift was like the perfect icing on the cake.

Great video, although I didn’t understand some parts of it, but I guess I got the general Idea. You said you will be making more videos about other topics, any plans for whats next? Also you mentioned “atomism” as if it’s an ideology, last time I diged into that I only found bad resources about this, do you know where I should start reading about this?

You have to see where purple turns bad/pathological to understand purple. purple is all romanticized until it throttle any effort to in-force modern laws. I have some concrete examples: 1.superstitions, red revolts against this, doesn’t believe in the old ways, having to bow before elders, having to throw salt in the air and dance around it for what ever reason. Red revolts against magical thinking and start thinking more realistically. 2.you can’t marry a guy/girl from another -inferior- tribe, this is still the happens in some places like Saudi Arabia. 3.fude wars in southern Egypt (and else where) countless murders that last several generations. One person’s whole life could be wasted on escaping death, all for a trivial reason that could be over a dead cow that was killed by mistake. the reason this still continues to this day, is that purple tribes believe that this is only way to saddle it, and won’t give in to law makers. 4.kinship is everything, its not safe to leave your tripe. it’s essentially like leaving your religion in modern religious families; It’s so enmeshed in your identity such that leaving is like committing an unthinkable crime. 5.Red sense of self is more advanced than purple, red have a strong sense of ‘i’ and is very self-empowered. Purple hasn’t moved to that level yet. Still thinks sees tribe as it’s identity. putting yourself in any of these examples can show you why it’s not desirable to be purple, and can make you appreciate/understand and favor red better. a positive example of red in modern times that you can see in schools: kids have magical thinking in them, you know how kids tell scary stories about the kid that was killed in the back of the school ? -magical thinking- Red would be the hero kid that checks for him/her-self and shows the rest of the group thats there’s nothing to be afraid of

@thisintegrated yeah very spot on, I noticed things like this I knew a very stage orange guy on the verge of being green, used to take photographs of naked hippies. I urged him to try acid or try weed ounce. At that point in his life he’s ‘good’ to try it. Told me literally: “I lived my whole life without smoking a cigarette, and I won’t try weed either” < thinks it’s the same as tobacco. My experience is blue has little information/interstate in psychedelics: basically thinks it’s dangerous, relies on the authority of what drug ads says about it on TV, and compartmentalize as such. thinks it takes you to another world or their minds connects it with religious visions(Jesus, merry, buddha etc.) Green mentions it to challenge how woke you are. I used to think that everyone should try it, and that it can solve all their problems…. So they can be green, like me! ? My take form Spiral dynamics is that it’s more complicated than and can’t work that way as everyone one has different possibilities according to their level on the spiral. what do red purple or beige experience them as? Baige-purple was the OG hippie? lol