Happy Lizard

@DocWatts something I've been wondering about for a while. Is reaching a sort of freedom in one's life necessary for this, or is it a society matter ? for example Green college students in a southern state. they obviously can't go all the way green in their environment that have issues with different race marriage and trying to block abortion. I'm sure most of them would like to move out to a place where Green values are more acceptable, but they might lack the means to do so. I guess what I'm asking is: is that a part of the challenge ? or is it just a society thing where you can be lucky to be born in Europe, and be susceptible to a Green worldview.

@Husseinisdoingfine I'm in same boat with you friend, as I believe I fall under green or at least have green values. I do think though that what we are doing here is sorta what yellow is, going meta on life, society, the mind, the ego etc. examining what's true and what's not true for us, keeping an ultra open-mind etc. any Yellow correct me if I'm wrong: but I think going meta on shit is really what the stage is all about. I would say though that I couldn't tell a Yellow person for the life of me unless someone points them out. I'm just guessing they probably have a wardrobe full of black shirts.

great point. I can see why the emphasis on calling it ethnocentricity.

@Leo Gura my intention is really not to demean them. I've known and interacted with people of stage red and blue and they are, as your saying hard-working and respectful. I'm just saying I know danger when I see it. maybe there are no fatalities yet, but I see extremist in these groups and I'm really hoping no bloodshed will happen over the next two weeks.

@Leo Gura thanks for the correction and elaboration, I don't have a great grasp over the difference between these ideologies and I tend to lump them all together. I do agree of your definition as I don't think all of them are natzis, however, I'm just proposing this: looking at the link that @Jodistrict provided, aren't some of these group portraying a world view and a value system of blood thirsty natzis? I'm saying this in complete concern over what they might do, or what can happen in the coming days, and not soley to demean them. it's fucking concerning to me to see this many people waring and carrying flags and symbols so alarmingly resembling that of natzi Germany. I don't think it's common sense not to call them by their name. not to say we should be scared of them, but just to be clear what they really stand for.

@Jodistrict This is insane! it's like natzis reincarnated in America to storm the capital and try to destroy the democracy that destroyed them back in Germany! I agree that whoever says that this riot is not based upon race as well as many other things is either in denial or delusional.

@Leo Gura true, and even at that point as a stage purple you’d have to give up so much of your dear values and belonging to a tribe in order to be self empowered, and it’s a scary as fuck way of life too. maybe thats one good way to appreciate Red in my view, it’s hard to do so otherwise, if our best examples that we are always referring to are MAGA or Hitler.

In feudal Japan one could pick a sword and start his Red career. I’m curious of how for example, a tribal man/woman could do in modern time to move to red ? There are a lot of tribal women and men in places like the middle east and the amazon, I’m thinking that the healthiest way to move them into red is either to recruit them into military or employee them as bodyguards.

@nitramadas comment: was this how you suggested we use the system for commenting on a discussion? (I’m commenting on your system for posting in here) I love this! I’ve often thought about how such advanced material is covered at actulized.org while being at such grim level of lack of systematic way of arranging things in a clear way such as the one at reddit, which I think is nice, and it has much meta stuff about each subreddit, what is the propose and rules of it are. it feels as if each subreddit is a world in itself. This would be great if it continues. I’ve been running around hunting for every T2 member I can find here just to get a sense of what T2 is, and my mind is blown each time.

Are there any good examples of stage yellow artwork ? I’d like to see what a stage yellow movie would look like, or any form of art for that matter.

I don’t know if you’ve heard of Tim Ferris, but he published a very powerful podcast about childhood trauma. He published his resources on his blog: https://tim.blog/2020/09/14/how-to-heal-trauma/#books

@Husseinisdoingfine I wonder if that has to do with his work in establishing peace conversations between the Palestinian and Israelis. I think he’s being self-biased for his own cause, since Trump’s administration backed up the peace treaty between the UAE and Israel.

@Leo Gura I think I have largely broke from the idea of religion and god, I’m conscious that it’s fiction, but I just can’t see how that also can be applied to science. I saw all your videos and I opened up to how bias science is and how it sees itself as the highest authority. I’ve also read Derrida’s book from your book list, and it clicks for me how based on his philosophy, whoever looks from the science world view is completely missing other point of views because of their ignorance, all of that makes sense. It’s just hard for me to see exactly where this imagination is precisely “at work” ! Are you saying that science doesn’t happen? And it’s all just a coincidence that it works the way it works? I hope you can see where I’m having a hard time figuring this out. I’m really open to deconstruct it on my own I’m just not sure what you mean by “imagination” and “you are imagining that it works”.

It wasn’t really obvious to me that this man was hiding so much bullshit behind his lectures until I dropped the need to listen to them. It was nice trying to work on the principles that he put, and it does get you somewhere when you are in a state of depression and don’t know how to act about it. His psychological lectures Id say are even better than Leo’s in some sense just because he employees some acting skills to help dive his point non the less it’s all bullshit the main idea I got was that I was the one who was considered about me and wanted to uplift me. it was NOT the -although convincing- act of a “loving father” that JP was trying to sell. I know a zen teacher who gives x10 better advice I that helps you in dealing with depression and all her teachings are about self-love.

stage Red on War: "whoever dares to step on my land will be destroyed and killed! who has the balls to challenge me?! I was born a victor and I will punish and kill whoever dares to question my power! whoever chooses to join me must be ready to sacrifice themselves and their familes, we'll stand over the corpses of our dead enemies! we'll turn our battlefield into a sea of blood" Stage orange on War: "the act of war is our least preferred act and our last means, however, we will not be sitting idle if the procpect of war was unavoidable. our military is strong and powered with the latest technology in transportive vehicle and weaponery, our military has been trained for this. The consequence of this war has a huge bearings on the world and society. this war will decide which power will rule and whom's mind will lead."

Green on climate change: "There are living beings in our oceans that are being severely harmed and their habitat are being destroyed by all the fracking and plastic that were are all tossing because of our consumeristic culture, we all are collectively responsible for this ! Did you see that video of that poor turtle having a straw pulled out of its nose ? how terrible! all the while our politicians are busy funding big corporations that pollute the environment ! do you honestly think Trump gives a damn about our planet ? all our efforts to get some kind of deal to end these terrible practices are being blocked by big corporations and politicians serving there own needs ! I live near the cost, I worry that soon I'll wake up to see my house carried of the shore. no one is paying attention ! thanks Trump !" Blue on sexual education: "you want to teach young adults how to have sex ? I believe that sex should be saved to the bedroom, behind looked doors, away from any body's eyes and ears! what has our society come to? and you wonder why we're having so many girls getting pregnant at such young age, still not ready to become housewives not to mention becoming moms ! it's all the work of the devil ! this is how you break families! what's next ? teaching that drugs are good and noting's wrong with them ? dear Jesus... "

I have an authentic reaction against watching media, Since I’ve watched Leo’s video on why Watching TV is very bad for attention and stying present. I do agree with that. In fact I’ve let go of any desire to watch TV shows and movies like I used to. And I’m slowly limiting how much I watch youtube and I find that I can go days without watching much youtube. watching TV youtube videos or movies seems to me like eating very sugary or salty food. I’m recognizing that It takes my attention away from what’s happening around me in present moment. I have shortened the time I let myself consume media and its making me more grounded, however every now and then theres this one or two things I really want to watch and I struggle with letting it go. It’s almost like porn back when i used to be tempted to watch porn ( I don’t anymore). other times it’s like I see things that I can watch for education but I still recognize that it’s TV. And thoughts form about how this is meaningless and I’m not enjoying or limiting myself from learning about what I like. Have anyone had some experiences like these, and how do you deal with it?

Question to Leo please answer this: If we are to accept that science is very narrowly defined, which i totally agree with. My main concern and many others I believe, is how do we get to including other branches of knowledge under science or perhaps expand the definition of science to be more suitable to “the pursuit of knowledge”? Specifically, for many of those on the cusp of expecting your point of view (me included) and holding on to the notion of how do we distinguish “shit from shinola”; is there any good examples of this working? I see an organization like MAPS a great example for how scientists are working with shamans and plant medicine to produce a great outcome. However; who’s to say that this will work with voodoo or crystals ? I’m just playing a Hitchens razor, and I see how my mind is closed to possibilities here, but please understand that this is why most of us are criticizing you so much.

Something I came up with after contemplating on this week’s video on science: when do we as a society decide to drop the level of importance that we give to science, for example in schools, and start emphasizing something other than science like perhaps cooking? (Or it can be meditation or witchcraft or something else) I realized that since I’ve entered school as a kid, from then on math, science and later biology and physics where super important and emphasized, to the point that sometimes my parents and teachers would call them “the important subjects” or “the main subjects” in other words what I SHOULD be learning at school. I’m now seeing it from a different point of view, what if schools where more fluid and relaxed about teaching these subjects? What if it was based on what society needs at the current stage? (More artist? more musicians? more shamans? Philosophers?) focusing on what is needed rather than what worked last century. but who would make the call? And how would these Ideas even get introduced to be considered by schools, politicians or parents? it’s deep fucking rabbit hole once you start thinking about it.

Has science turned to a mechanism to keep us from our authentic selves ? And how do we use science in a way that’s less harmful ? Is it possible to live on earth without having to rely on science ? Is science, counter to our beliefs of its good merits, actually is harmful for humans’ coexistence with life on this planet and nature? I herd this in one of Terrence McKenna talks and it blow me away: Physics rely manly on a set of laws to provide a proof for what it calms. while mathematics is very intuitive, and it’s capable of providing a proof without having you believe in a law that says 1+1=2 is set in stone, meaning that anyone could drive it for themselves. Thought this way pretty fascinating and worth mentioning in this series.

@Leo Gura I guess I made a guess that since he or Clare were the founders of spiral dynamics, then that must've come form them being aware of the spiral, hence they'd be placed at yellow, but I guess I was wrong. I wonder what having a direct realization of the spiral be like.

I thought one could not possibly see beyond their stage on the spiral. How is it that the founder of spiral dynamics not be at least orange centered, since the model he designed is essentially scientific?

why does science seem consistent ? I know it's not with the case of Light speed calculations showing that light has changed speed at some point in time. but why does it seem to me like it works at a high degree of accuracy and consistency over time ? we can make highly complex machines and highly robust objects like the international space station using calculations and concepts that works in practice. I understand that there is limits to how "good" it works but isn't that irrelevant since it's better than wishing a car would manifest out of nowhere ? you say that languages spread almost like a living conscious thing, I find that intriguing, but does science do that as well ? could there be a modern civilization without discovering science ? is discovering and using science a required/necessary step in conscious evolution or is it just an irrelevant method ? what's an alternatives to science ?