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Depends on how well you can manage your body and mind. Are there people who are above 80-90 years old and in a relatively good shape physically and mentally? Yes for sure, but most people are not. We need to study the exceptions to understand how they could manage to do it, and what were the reasons.

@Rokazulu we are looping right now. This discussion is not productive anymore, because i can bring up my past points to answer the questions that you came up with. You keep asking questions that already been answered before.

Agreed.

Yeah, making certain spiritual practices more mainstream .and making better infrastructure to help depressed,weak and poor people can both have a very significant role in helping these people.

Because we are selfish, and we are not developed enough yet. Also evolution and survival has a role in it too. We are attracted to people who are self-confident and who are loving themselves, because subconsciously we think we have a lot better chance to survive in the world if we connect with them. lack of love is associated with weakness, and everyone is attracted to strength When i opened my heart chakra, i was full of love, and i didn't lack anything (this is when you are literally fulfilled so you are lacking of selfish desires). When you are in that state, you naturally want to help everyone and everything to the best of your ability, without any selfishness or thoughts crossing your mind, because thats the only thing you want to do, because you don't have any other thing on your mind that you would prioritize over others. The hardness is maintaining that state, when you need to focus on your own survival too. But it is 100% possible to be in such a state.

So far nothing been provided to support the antivaxx claims. Thats not a criticism, break those things down and call it out how those things are wrong. So when someone provides stats that are facts, the only thing you can come back with is that 'that user probably don't understand it, so it is wrong' Lets see those peer reviewed studies. Thats totally reasonable when a pandemic breaks out to fear the vaccines based on 'what if they have long term bad side effects' and wait for everyone to die thanks to covid 19 compared to get the vaccine and significantly lower the deathrate and infection rate. Society couldn't just sit around and wait for something that is 100% effective and bulletproof. Those links that you just provided in the other thread were really weak. None of them were peer review-ed , most of those methods require significant money from the individuals and they are all completely ignore the nuances of the problem of just focusing directly on your immunesystem boosting (ignoring handicapped individuals, poor people who can't afford lifestyle change, people who can't workout, people who are addicts and thanks to their addicitons they have a really weak immune system) and most of them didn't have that much trials on them. So again you trust those drugs much better when they only have a few thousand tries on them compared to the vaccine which has billions of tries on it. You provided no studies that show how those methods are more effective compared to the vaccines. So far we only know from you sources that your solution would be more expensive, less reachable for most people in the world, less reliable because of the lack of data on them, would require a huge significant change from people to change their life around, spend a lof of energy and time and money from their own pocket. Also what i could observe from your studies, that there were information that contradicted you, and you clearly haven't read everything about those links that you provided. I could argue back using the links that you provided, that should make you think how you approach this subject. You made others claims in your thread like "It's very clear these are unsafe products. " (this is not true, you can google it under 5 seconds) and now you want to play the 'i am trying to be objective' claim, when you are clearly not even trying to be objective. So far the pros are significantly outweighs the cons. WHo is censoring that information? You can easily find information about the side effects on peer reviewed studies too. Its not like that is a secret. What are those things that were or are being censored? ( I am asking for information here that is factually correct, not just a big narrative without anything holding it back up)

I think i heard an argument where if there is a country where you can find a lot of jobs which doesn't require any education or skill like mcdonalds and working at other fast food places etc, if those places can't find workers for themselves they will start to increase their salaries higher and higher to attract more people. The problem is that if the increasing of the salaries still not attract enough people for their places, they will hit a point where they are incentivised to make their place much more automatic, they make it robotical because they don't have much of a choice and eventually those jobs will be lost. So people who don't have any education and skills in that country will have a much more harder time working anywhere, because everything will be automatized and the job market will be shifted. But, if you have immigrants who are willingly do those jobs, then these companies won't be incentivised to automatize their whole system, because its cheaper to just have a few workers for a low salary, than to invenst in a system for millions of dollars and wait for years to earn back the spent money.

Not because you don't have a dick, it was just a silly hypothetical. I wanted to phrase it in a way, where you have no alternatives, you either accept that difficult situation or make a change (take the pill). Just like with trans people, they don't really have much a of a chance, they either accept their difficult situation and won't transition but they will be bothered by it for the rest of their life, or they transition.

But this is vague. I was asking about the vaccines, how they are wrong on the vaccines right now? THe point is, that some holes would be shown because they are incentivised to do so. How that makes the vaccine bad? Money making on some drug doesn't make it automatically bad. With every good leading drug you can earn millions or billions of dollars. I was talking about a 'healthy immune system' protocol. How would that even look like. And again a healthy immune system is super vague in an of itself. How people are gonna change their whole lifestyle everywhere across the globe? Do you know how much money would it take , how much planning,and even then most people couldn't do it. You are completely ignoring the people who have really bad conditions , who can't exercise, who have a number of different diseases already, who are fat and can't just lose weight in a few days, those who have addictions , those who are really poor and can't afford a better diet or lifestyle etcetc. Would you force people to have a better lifestlye? If not, then how your messages would have helped here, because you are not saying anything new with the 'just focus on being healthy' most people who care about their health they already have a healthy lifestlye, others who do not give a damn, they don't and your message won't change that. If your answer is yes, then how is your forcing other people is different positively in any way compared to the vaccine mandates? You would be forceing people to spend a lot of money, energy and time which is a much more invenstment on their part, if we compare it with the vaccine, where you just need to go to a place, you get your shot and go home. The problem with the choice, is that even if the vaccine would be 100% effective for everyone, and it wouldn't have any side-effects people would not try it, because it comes from the mainstream. One of the biggest points was to give the vaccine to as many people as possible, because it slowed down the infection rate. If we maintain a pro-choice policy in a soicety where you can find a lot of people who just anti-vaxx and only care about themselves and not giving any shit about others, then it becomes a problem. One of the things spirituality should teach you, is to not be highly fixated only on yourself, but to take a very low risk of having some side effects to protect others around you and yourself. Again its about probabilities not black-white (that it either 100% works or not). I don't understand , how you see no evidence, when i can just google it under one minutes. This is why most of us thinks and assumes, that you are little bit anti-vaxx because this information can be found pretty easily. If you really tried to be objective about this subject, then this information shouldn't be suprising for you or hard to find. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

Point out where they are exactly wrong. You try to put every scientist under one agenda, because it fits your narrative, and it makes the sensemaking of this issue a whole lot of easier, because you don't need to get nuanced about it. Do you know that there was a big competitions around vaccines, about who can make the best vaccine in the most fast way. Because of the different vaccines there were different interest that were in the playingfield. Every vaccine maker had the incentive to try to find holes in the other vaccine makers company, methodology etc. Why? Because there is a rivalous dynamic between them, about who can make the most money. They would be the first to try to point out the holes in each other's games.

There is a lower chance to get the virus if you are vaccinated. Lower chance matters a lot, when we are talking about hospitals getting flooded with people ,so other people with issues that is not covid related, can't get sufficient health care. Again getting back to your original point of "if something is not 100% effective than it need to be thrown out" i think thats not a very good way to evaluate things, since i haven't seen any vaccine or drug that was 100% effective for everyone and in every instance. It hasn't been proven that it doesn't work. Thats a claim that need to be backed up by data and statistics. Also if it has absolutely no benefit whatsoever, then why most countries are still buying vaccines? I got tripple vaxxed, havent had any of the simptons that you mentioned above. You will get the covid, but i guess it matters to you how severly it will run through you, right? Appeal to authority makes a lot of sense, when we are talking about issues, that most of us have no idea how to make sense of. How many peer reviewed papers have you read, and how many could you make total sense of without prior medical studies/knowledge? There is no way, that you won't make some %-of appealing to authorities when we are talking about medical issues. A healthy immune system sounds great on paper, but when we are talking about humanity, you will find people with thousands of issues, and you can't just make a protocol that will work for billions of people regarding to the healthy immune system approach. Also just by having a healthy immune system that does not mean, that you won't go to the hospital when you catch the virus. There were a number of strong people who had a good healthy immune system, and they were working out a lot and even went for competitions but unfortunately some of them had to go to the hospital. So you can reduce you chance of getting into a hospital if you get a healthy immune system, but its nowhere near bulletproof. Also how realistic it is for society, especially when we are talking about the breakout of the virus, to just quickly change their whole life around, quickly eat healthier ,quickly start working out and so on and so forth. People been getting the 'just get healthier' advice in their life all the time, but most don't want to change or can't change. If you only relying on the immune system part you will count out a lot of people in society. So the vaccines are a free quick solution where you can get protection to people who don't want to , or for those who can't get a healthier immune system.

For the reasons why you want to have a male body right now. Imagine being trapped in a woman's body right now, having the same abitions and goals that you have . You know that you could not achieve you goals or you would have a significantly less chance to achieve your goals by staying in a woman's body. For instance, could you change your preference about what kind of woman you like just by using psychedelics? Maybe using psychedelics would change some of your prefereces ,but you couldn't use it in a calculated way. It may change some of your random preferences, but you wouldn't be able to know those beforehand, and you wouldn't know how it would change them. So basically you can't change your preferencies in any calculated way. You are a blackbox yourself, there are different kind of inputs that you can consciously choose, but you won't know, what the outputs will be. I partly agree with this. But when you have a desire that is really intense and doesn't go away, and constantly with you, then saying that that particular desire is childish would not change the fact, that you have a really highly intense desire towards something that won't ever go away. Yeah i wouldn't ,but this is different. You are not identitifed with that expensive car, but it seems that it is the best solution so far for these trans people to change their body to be inline with their gender. Imagine this, to sense how intense it could be for them: You are a man, who is hetereosexual . You have a very high libido and you constantly want to fuck every attractive woman. Every time you get home you have a harem of really attractive girls . You see them all naked, they look like exactly what you prefer in a woman. But there is a catch, you can't fuck them and you can't fuck anyone else, you can't jerk off to them or anyone else and (they won't give you handjobs or blowjobs). You have two choices, you can choose to get a pill, and with that pill you could change your sexual preference , so you wouldn't be bothered by the naked woman in your house anymore or you could live your life in a miserable way, where you can't do anything, because you are constantly in a lustful state. To say, that the desire to take the pill is childish, or just to let go of it i think wouldn't be accurate imo. Would you take the pill or not?

Can you think of any drug/vaccine that worked 100% for everyone and had no bad effect on anyone? That standard that a vaccine that was given for billions of people should not have a single bad case is really absurd. You could give a potato for billions of people and you would see how many people would have bad reactions to it. Call it out how it is inaccurate, and provide a better solution that works for billions of people better than the vaccine. Providing a better solution is the real challenge, because you can't just rely on your own anecdotal experience but you need to provide one that works for most people, has lower harm causality than the vaccine, and has better effectiveness. This vaccine had been tested over billions of patients, and we are talking about it like its a totally new thing and we are talking about it like we have no data on it. I think the most criticism you can do is to say that there should have been more focus on what one can do to improve their immunesystem by improving diet, working out etc. However, to jump and think that you can replace the vaccine with that, requires a lot of data and statistics and not just anecdotal exp. Having reasonable regulations have more benefits than negatives. The biggest problem is drawing the lines, and clarifying in an exact way those regulations. But the hardness of clarification does not mean, that we shouldn't have any regulations though. For instance think about having a regulation that one can only share factually correct information, or if you are not sure about it, you have to clarify it beforehand that you are not sure if it is correct or not. Just this one rule could uplift a forum / platform in a huge way. The sensemaking would be much better and easier, and noone would need to spend hours to puzzle out, if the information has some validity or how much validity that particular narrative / information has.

In Norway, 98 percent of the electricity production come from renewable energy sources. Hydropower is the source of most of the production (which is one of the best, if not the best renewable energy source). Its insane, especially considering that they have a lot of oil,so they didn't have to transform their energy production so much, but they did. I think we should analyize Norway more how could they achieve 98% renewable energy production.

Yes, i agree with you, i feel the same. I think, that these techniques are almost never for universal use, and it depends on a lot of factors when should one use them, and in what way.

Do you think that pomodoro and deep work contradict each other? Because there are some cases, when i do someting and i dive really deep into the work, and if i would have to interrupt my workflow after 30-40 minutes, i think it would be harmful for my productivity. I would even say, that deep work works best, when you like the activity/work what you are doing, so you can be in a sort of flow state, I think pomodoro technique would be beneficial, when you do some work that you don't really enjoy doing.

So lets say you have a woman's body, but your desire is to have a man's body. Would you transition then? Because that would be the argument to make for trans people. We actually realised in this conversation that you can't really have impact on your preferences, so if you have a strong desire for some things over another, then you will want to take actions towards it. To be more specific you can preference to have a woman's body when in reality you have a man's body. So if you can't change your preference, then a reasonable thing would be to transition, to be more aligned with your preferences.

I don't know if there is a why for this, but for most people experience about this that there is a very consistent experience of ones finite gender identity. So it just is, my reason would imply that i can have impact on it. But where is this preference is coming from? Could you change this preference? I assume your answer will be yes, then the question would be to go one layer deeper, why wouldn't you change it? The reason why i ask so many questions around this, is beacuse it seems that you put more value on one gender compared to the other. So i assume if we go down to the "axiomatic level", there will be things that just are without any reason supporting them whatsoever. Thats not a problem though, that would be a recognition that on the deeper layers you have some variables, that you can't really control, they just are and those variables decides what you will preference over other things, and it can create you a subjective experience of yourself (so there would be a really long causality chain, that goes back to your desires and connected to your subjective finite ego experience). So you imply that basically its about your desire what you want to be in a certain moment, and right now you want to be a man , because you prefer being a man. Can you have direct impact on your desires?

Ohh thats some really good stuff, thanks for sharing it.

Yeah, you would feel miserable, but why? Why does low T is bad, you wouldn't care if gender isnt important for you. Thats the argument trans people use why they want to transition. They want sex change because they feel miserable with the sex type they have. So they basically want to align their sex with their gender. I gave gender a definition which is this: How one experience and sees him/herself as. So, if you in your everday life see/experience your finite ego as a man, then you would expect to be treated like that. I want to emphasise the difference between feminine and masculine traits and gender. I described femininity and masculinity as an act(how you talk, what things you do or not do, how you hold yourself etcetc) and i could add certain biological traits to it as well(like having facial hair- masculine trait, having a pussy -feminine trait etc), but gender is different because it is about how you view,experience yourself as. Again i could act more feminine or change my body to look more feminine, but i wouldn't be able to change my inner experience of my finite ego to experience myself as a woman. So the question would be how you could do a permanent gender change with your will or forcefully, that affects your everyday life, not just like a temporary peak moment like awakening? ( I know awakening has a lot of aspects to it that stay with you, but i am talking about normal everyday level of consciousness)

I think that most trans people were close to being adults, or they were already adults when they started their transitioning. You can transcend it, but in your everday life, you won't be living from the God-state. So you will basically always have a finite ego, and a finite gender indentity too, that you use to operate in the world, the awakening argument would make sense if you could maintain a very high level of consciousness. So at the end of the day, the gender problem won't be escaped. Having a gender change wouldn't mean what you wrote. You could just see yourself as a super amibitious, motivated, masculine woman (It shouldn't bother you, because you said it does not matter, right?). But i think if you are honest with yourself, you would say that you are not capable of changing your gender. Or you could say that you are capable but you don't want to change it, but then we go back to the point, that gender is indeed important for everyone, if it wouldn't be , then you wouldn't be attached to your masculine identity. Having a gender seem to be really important. I think you would be offended or bothered if you would be treated as a little girl by everyone (and your temporary awakening would not matter in this case, because you are operating with a normal level of consciousness).

Then why is that most feminine man won't transition? If its really that straight forward. Again i agree with most of your assesment, because there are definitely some cases, where the cause comes from society, the question is all cause comes from society and roles, or gender identity has some biological traits to it. Because in your arguments you assume, that it doesn't have any (and i assume that it could have, unless you can make an argument that can explain why this is happening without a large number outliers). It might have or it might not have tangible biological traits to it, but the study on this topic is just getting started. Would you be able to willingly change your own gender identity? or i could ask would be be able to change your gender identity, if you would be forced to do it? Or do you think that developing and changing one's gender identity only possible at a young age?

Lets differentiate between gender and sex. Sex would mean the biological aspects to your body, and gender would mean your subjective experience of yourself. The difference is this in my opinion: femininity is the act how you behave in the world, but gender is about how you subjectively see your own self. So for instance, i could act in a number of feminine ways, but i wouldn't be able to willingly change my gender (to see myself as a woman). The real question to get closer to the roots is this: How does one create a gender identity, what is the process to it? To answer your question from an outsider perspective. I wouldn't be able to differentiate between the two people you describe, because from an outside perspective there would be no tangible difference between a highly feminine man, and a transwoman. Again im referring back to my original point, if gender identity has some biological traceable characteristics to it, then we will be able to differentiate between the two people that you mentioned above. This point is important when we are talking about children transitioning. Because again iam agreeing with you on that, if we only have somone's subjective experience to decide if a kid should transition or not, thats not reliable at all, and there could be so much negative cost to it in the future for him/her. But if gender really has some tracable biological charateristics to it, then it suddenly becomes a releavant subject, because if a kid goes through puberty, then this transitioning thing becomes a really hard problem. Thats true. But most feminine man wouldn't want to do transitioning.

How many valuable things you couldn't share, because you were afraid of moderation? Can you point out any high quality forum or platform, where there is no moderation?

Yeah sorry, i was completely focused on the solution, so i assumed you were talking about that, but you were talking about spiritual work, and how this issue blocking the spiritual development. From the absolute pov, yeah none of this actually matter, not even a little bit. But, when we are talking about everyday finite experience of the ego it matters a lot, especially on your mental health. I think most people would be bothered if they wouldn't be treated as the gender or identity that they are indentified as (i would add people here who have had some awakenings before, but they are not in a high consciousness state constantly). The only one i could see who wouldn't be bothered by it, is someone who can maintain a very high level of consciousness and a blissed state. So my point is that, as long as we can't maintain a high level of consciousness, we will need to deal with these problems in a different way imo. That does not mean ,that we shouldn't advocate for spiritual work though. Yes, and its a super sensitive topic for these people for sure, and its super hard to talk about it, because anyone can get so triggered so quickly, even if your intention wasn't to trigger anyone.