Tristan12

@RendHeaven Thank you, especially for the descriptions, that’s really helpful

I've heard Leo and other people talking about contemplating on psychedelics, and how doing that supercharges your contemplation. I don't really understand how to do that though, because psychedelics generally make it more difficult to think clearly, and even if you can, it sort of takes your attention off of the trip, when I figured it would be better to calm your mind, surrender, and focus on the experience? Can someone please explain to me how this is done, because I have questions I want to get answers to from psychedelics, but I don't really know how to approach it.

I've developed a deep connection to existential love from all the suffering I've been through over the years. It gets deeper and deeper over time and so I feel like I have good reason to suspect that this chapter of my life might be meant to end with a massive awakening. What I wrote about using psychedelics to try and have a massive awakening, that was just an idea. It doesn't mean I'm actually going to do that, or that I've been trying to do that with psychedelics in the past. I don't think I'm too spiritually immature at all to be taking psychedelics. How dare you say my wish to die is ridiculous. I'm in an incredible amount of suffering, I have been for years. If I desire to die, to leave this world, become one with God, then that's how I feel, and I don't appreciate you saying it's ridiculous. I don't care if you didn't mean to put me down. You don't speak to a highly suicidal person like that.

I took notes on almost every line from the Spiral Dynamics stage yellow video, it took me around 5 hours. The benefit was that allowed me to organize the information better and set up the note in a way that is easy to follow. I was then able to make another note summarizing each section in my own words, basically making a guide on how to reach stage yellow. It's up to you how you want to take notes on the ego development video, but there can be benefit to taking notes even if you're writing down every line. For the what is truth video, I think it's up to you whether you want to take notes on that or not, and if so, how in depth they are. Whatever is helpful to you. Personally I would still take notes on it, maybe write out the main points and give solid explanations to make sure you really understand what Leo is saying.

That's the process that I worked with for 4.5 years (I stopped in August). I started using it, it didn't work for me, then I spent the rest of the time trying to figure out how to make it work, making my own versions of it, and I eventually had to stop because I was going to end up killing myself if I didn't do something else. I know that working with a practitioner would probably be different, so that's an option I guess. My main problem right now is that the healing I get doesn't stick. I had a really deep and profound healing experience one time in 2020 when I was toying around with making my own version of the completion process (although I was never able to recreate it) the healing I got with it was deeper than some healing experiences I've had with psychedelics, and I felt totally different after, but a few days later, the results were gone. Then as I said before, I got a ton of healing from ayahuasca, and from a mescaline trip I had, but the healing faded away a few days after those experiences as well. I really feel like there must be a part of me that is resisting the healing. I became aware a few years ago that I have a wound of powerlessness on top of my shame/abandonment wound. What that means is that I have a lot of resistance to the shame I feel, because it makes me feel deeply powerless when I feel it. I always figured that was the reason why the healing didn't stick with my experience in 2020. With ayahuasca, I figured the medicine would have been intelligent enough to recognize and resolve any blockages like that that I might have, so it's strange to me that my results still didn't stick. . It doesn't make sense to me why the healing doesn't stick when I get big emotional releases on psychedelics. Childhood trauma is created when a child goes through an intensely difficult emotional experience, they can't handle it on their own because there is nobody there supporting them, and so they dissociate, which separates the painful emotion from their conscious mind, and suppresses it, with the intention of revisiting and releasing it later. If there was a parent there to comfort the child, the emotion could be processed and released, and there would be no lasting trauma. Because of that, it would make sense that all you would need is to cry out and process the blocked emotion, so there would be no need for healing to take months or years, you just need to be able to access the emotion buried in your subconscious. That's what I did with that experience I had in 2020. The purging lasted maybe 10-20 minutes and I felt like a totally different person after. Psychedelics allow you to get into your subconscious mind, to access and purge these difficult emotions, so if I can feel through and process these emotions on psychedelics, why would the healing not stick? People say that psychedelics show you what's possible, and then you have to work towards it sober, but if that's the case, then it's kind of weird how that happens. For example, when I'm on a psychedelic, I process and release emotional pain. I cry, I yell, all of that, and then I feel so much better, and it lasts for a few days. If psychedelics want to show me what's possible, wouldn't they just bring me to positive emotional states in the trip that show me how I could feel? What's the point of doing all of that purging if it's apparently not actually real purging? To me, it doesn't make sense that psychedelics couldn't heal you, even in a short amount of time, and it doesn't make sense that the purpose of them is to show you what's possible, considering the purging and apparent healing that happens. . I feel like the most important thing for me to do to be able to heal at this point is to figure out why my healing doesn't stick. I think there must be a part of me that is resisting and preventing it, so I think what I need is parts work or potentially IFS. I also want to get back in touch with the staff at the ayahuasca retreat I went to, to see if they have any advice. The fact that I spent 5 weeks there and spent as much money as I did, only for my mental health issues to still be as bad as they were before, that doesn't seem right, and I wonder if they would let me come back without charging me.

Thank you

I wouldn't say that I hate myself. I don't love myself, but I generally like myself as a person, and self-hatred isn't something I've ever really struggled with. I hate being alive in this human life, because the suffering is so immense and it doesn't end. If you're saying that this human life/reality is God and so in that sense I hate myself/God, then okay, but when I say I want to become one with God, I mean I want to stop existing as a finite self, I want to leave this world/this dream of life, I want to become one with the Godhead, and not suffer anymore. I'm suffering because I have/am an ego and I exist as a finite self, and suffering is created by trying to maintain that sense of self, and I want to die so I don't have to suffer from that anymore. Up to this point I've used psychedelics with the intent of healing and purging my blocked emotional pain, which I've done, although the healing doesn't last. Me saying that I'm considering using psychedelics to try and have a massive awakening and ego-death, that was only an idea. I'm not necessarily going to do that, and I certainly haven't been trying to do that with my psychedelic use up to this point. Frankly I'm terrified of ego-death, I just had the idea that maybe it would help me and be worth going for. That's the crux of your issue right there. You want all of this happening. On YOUR terms. Which is exactly what you're getting and why you're suffering. Nothing you try will work because you're clinging fiercely and only using everything to resist further. The more you act on that intent, the more you suffer. But you can stop. I kind of understand what you're saying, and I kind of agree with it based on what I think I'm understanding, but I'd appreciate if you could explain what you mean further. I've thought about that, but it's hard to care at this point. I realize it's stupid if i'm just going to end up reincarnating back into a similar situation. I don't know 100% if that would actually happen, but even if it did, the pain gets so bad at times that I still want to end things, and not just not think about the repercussions of it. I know how stupid that is, but when the pain gets so unbearable, I don't care about anything but getting immediate relief I think the reason I resist all of my suffering so strongly is because of how long I've been going through it. It's been 7 long years. Earlier on I would try to be with my emotions, feel through them, surrender to them, and not fight so much, but over time, the pain worsens, it becomes unbearable, and the suffering takes such a toll on me that I end up in this situation where all I do is resist and fight everything that's happening, because I can't take it anymore. It breaks me and destroys me and turns me into this giant mess that is frantically trying to get out of this hell that I'm in. Thank you for your response. I think what you said was insightful and is helpful for me to think about, and hopefully you can clarify those things I asked about.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond, I appreciate your help. It's difficult for me to spend a lot of time reading through everything and formulating responses because of the condition I'm in, and how difficult it makes it to focus and work, so I need to take my time, but I'll respond eventually. For now I'll just say, about therapy, even if I could get a form of therapy that would cost me little to no money, I still go into more debt each month to cover living expenses, and I'm only a few thousand away from going bankrupt. That means I need to be in a good enough position to start working and making money within a few months at the most. The main problem I have with working is that I get into really brutal emotional states at times, and I need to take breaks to relax or sleep or something, to be able to cope. If I have no choice but to go work a job when i'm in a state like that, I would get extremely suicidal. It would be bad for me, and I doubt I'd be able to keep a job being that way. I would need a job that I could work on my own schedule, that I could work when I feel okay enough to do so. On top of that, it would have to be something I enjoy, because if I have to suffer a boring, mindless job, that I don't want to be doing, after all the suffering I've already been through and am going through, again, I'd rather be dead than do that. The work load would also have to be not overly demanding, because it's very difficult for me to be productive, focus and get a lot of work done. I get super tense and anxious easily and I need to distract myself and take breaks frequently. So it's a pretty tall order... lol

I don't know, I've been very resistant to the idea of taking medication for a long time. I'd almost rather be dead than start taking that. Even if I did start taking it, I would feel like such a failure considering that my life purpose is in psychology, it's about creating healing techniques, and I plan on coaching people and teaching on YouTube, yet I will have been incapable of healing myself after years of trying, and I will have ended up having to resort to medication. Lol. It could potentially keep me alive, but at that point I would really struggle to want to be, because it would feel like such a slap in the face to have to resort to medication when I've been determined for years to figure out how to heal myself at the root. I already barely want to live even without that.

@trenton I've seen both of your responses, I appreciate you taking the time to write everything. It's all stuff for me to think about. I'm going to write out some more in this thread about my situation and about what I feel like I need to resolve things, and hopefully that will answer the questions you had in your second response. My life purpose is about creating deep emotional healing processes/techniques. I did Leo's life purpose course, but along with that my purpose was quite easy for me to find because I stumbled upon it from my life situation. As I started working on trying to heal myself, I realized I had a love for psychology and emotional healing. What really helped me was getting very clear on the exact niche and area that I'm interested in, and not discounting a potential career path just because of how it looks on the surface. For example, I have no interest in being a regular therapist or psychologist. I want to work independently and create my own techniques, rather than following something I learned from school, and I don't want to spend the rest of my life working one-on-one with clients. I don't mind spending some time working with clients, but what I really love is learning about psychology and making healing processes. What I am really passionate about is very deep, root level healing, and also learning about emotions and how they work and function. Depth is one of my highest values, so I love approaching psychology in that way, and I'm not interested in basic, surface level healing methods. My point is that my life purpose is something very specific and niche that perfectly fits my personality and strengths, and if I discounted psychology and therapy just because I didn't like the idea of it on the surface, I wouldn't of found this specific niche that perfectly fits me. Beyond that, I think gaining a lot of self-awareness is very important, such as learning your strengths and weaknesses, your values, things that you're passionate about and enjoy doing, learning as much about yourself as you can. I have pages and pages on these topics in my notes that I have been adding to for years, and it helps me to pinpoint exactly the kind of work I want to be doing in my life.

I don't know if that would really help me. I've been doing work with trauma healing, introspection, feeling through emotions, all those kinds of things for the last 5 years and I'm still in the same situation. I journal regularly which I enjoy but it doesn't really do anything to heal me. I could try the Sedona method as a regular practice, but considering my situation and weighing my options, it doesn't seem likely to help

I'm $30k in debt, a few thousand away from being bankrupt, and I have to go into more debt each month to cover living expenses since I can't work. My mum is in a lot of debt and just payed $7k for part of my ayahuasca retreat. So neither of us really have the money for that. On top of that, I'm sure that would take a huge amount of time for me to start seeing results, which just prolongs the amount of time I spend not working and not making an income, so I'd run out of money for that reason as well. Also, that's months or years of continued daily suffering for me when I'm already so exhausted and am barely hanging on. So I feel like that solution just doesn't really work for me.

It's complicated, because there is so much of it from so many sources that I can't easily label it as one specific condition. I've suffered from deep shame and deep abandonment wounds all my life. The past 7 years I've suffered from PTSD and bad anxiety. The PTSD has morphed and shifted over time, getting worse and worse, and at this point I'm in an extremely severe state. I spend probably 3-5 hours a day stuck in anxious thought loops, and it's been like that every day for the past 7 years. I am extremely sensitive, even the slightest bit of disapproval, sense that I did something wrong or made someone not like me, it REALLY hurts and I can't stop thinking about it. I get overwhelmed easily leaving the house and going to new places. It's extremely difficult to get any work done. I don't have a job or anything so I have all day every day to work on things, an I can only get 1-2 hours of work done a day (if even that) because of constant thinking, and having such a strong need to distract myself. Every little thing in my life causes me pain. I remember in one of my ayahuasca ceremonies, I had this vision of me looking at my to do list, in such deep anxiety and suffering, only because I was stuck in an anxious thought loop over the way my to-do list was formatted - like the order that the tasks were in, etc. There is just so much tension and suffering over even the smallest things, and it's been like this day after day for 7 years The worst thing of all is that over the past year I've dealt with really bad heartbreak from a girl (we never got into a romantic relationship but I still got really attached to her). What makes it so bad is experiencing that heartbreak through the lens of all of these emotional issues I have. I got so addicted and attached to her because I needed her as an escape from my emotional pain so badly, and of course that drove her away and made her want nothing to do with me, and that heartbreak has been hell. That has been the absolute most difficult thing I've ever dealt with. I cannot get over her. It drives me insane every single day. I fucking hate that I have to be alive in a world where I have to be without her. On top of that it drives me crazy that I'm 24 and a virgin. I'm a horny guy and I wish I could have sex so badly, and it makes me feel so inferior and emasculate that I can't attract a girl. Again, experiencing that through the lens of my horrible emotional state makes it 1000% times worse/more painful. Knowing that there's guys out there that get to fuck this girl I want more than anything, but I can't, and I have to stay in my situation and suffer. On top of that I'm $30k in debt, almost bankrupt, can't work because of my condition, I'm stuck living with my mum who I do not like at all. . . Throughout these 7 years, despite how ridiculously difficult it's been, I've always felt like it was there to grow me, and so there was always a part of me that was still somewhat on board with life, despite how bad things got. But over the past year, it's gotten so bad that it doesn't feel like just a challenge anymore, it feels like pure torment and cruelty. It feels like some sick, twisted hell that is torturing me and I can't get out of it. It's gone too far. I've become so exhausted, burnt out, and sick and tired of my situation, that I absolutely despise life at this point and I have no desire to live. I do not like being alive, I don't want to be alive, I don't consent to being alive, I'm alive against my own will. I want to be dead. I don't want to participate in life, I don't want to 'play the game' of life. It's all gone too far and been too much, I'm just done with it, and I have been for a long time, but I keep living. I've felt this exact way all year. I remember saying these same things to myself during a time in May when I got really burnt out and suicidal. I barely managed to convince myself to keep going, trusting that things would eventually work out. I kept going for a few months, then got really burnt out again in August, and for the first time I attempted suicide multiple times. I came to the unfortunate realization that it's a lot harder to kill myself than I thought, especially when I'm not 100% certain I want to do it. So I eventually decided to keep going with life. Then I did ayahuasca over the past few months, things got so much better, then I lost all my results when I got home and now I'm back in the same situation. So throughout this year I REALLY have been making an effort to make things better, despite how much I don't want to keep living. The fact that nothing has changed up to this point and I still want to be dead as much as I did at the start of the year, it just makes it even more convincing to end things. I hate being alive so much and have such little desire to participate in life, that it makes me want to say: if anyone reading this wants me to keep living, then YOU do something about it. I know you'll say "take responsibility for your life and your situation, other people aren't gonna hold your hand". But that assumes that I even want to keep living or try so hard to improve my situation. I'll do what I can to improve my situation if it's not too difficult and doesn't take too long, so I'm not totally helpless, but if it's going to take years of grueling work, then forget it. It's my right as an individual to not participate in life if I don't want to. That often feels like the only sense of control I have over my situation. I don't care if it's cowardly or not right to do something like that. I just don't care anymore.

I used to do all those things (working out, eating healthy). I'm a very ambitious person and in my teenage years I was so into doing all these kinds of things and doing everything I could to grow myself and be the best version of myself. I only stopped when my emotional issues got too bad. I started working out again a couple months ago, but before that I took a break for a few years because it became another thing that overwhelmed me and stressed me out. I also used to eat really clean, but I let myself start to eat junk food just to have something to enjoy while I go through all the pain I'm in. My point is that I used to do all those things, and the only reason I don't do all of them now is because of the emotional pain I suffer from, so building all of these habits again isn't going to help me cope with my emotional issues.

No, just emotional pain. PTSD, anxiety, shame, a whole assortment of issues, and the combination of everything together has gotten worse and worse over the years to the point where every single thing I encounter in life causes me so much suffering and it's just unbearable.

@Thought Art Why do things like ayahuasca retreats and psychedelic assisted therapies exist then? What's the point if they don't heal you? I've spent the last 5 years studying trauma healing techniques and trying to heal myself without psychedelics, and none of it worked. If psychedelics are meant to give me glimpses of what's possible so I can work towards it sober, then I'm just back in the same situation as before. If I have to play the long game even now at this point, when I'm absolutely at my wits end, I'd rather just be dead.

No I haven't

@Leo Gura I hate my life because of the severe emotional issues I have, and how much pain I am constantly in. When I got back from my ayahuasca retreat, I was feeling great and got starting on building new habits, starting to build my career, etc but then a few days later my emotional issues started to come back and I had to stop everything I was doing because I felt so awful again I have lots of things I’m passionate about, I know my life purpose, I know exactly what I’d want to do with my life if I was well and healthy. But I am in such an extreme amount of pain, day after day, and its been this way for years. It only gets worse, and even with all the work I’ve done with psychedelics, I still can’t recover. The pain has taken so much out of me that I just have no desire to continue living. I’ve felt this way all year and it just gets worse. I’m not on the edge of ending things right now, I just need a solution because its driving me crazy

@RendHeaven All of that is helpful, thanks

@MaDoubt Potentially, but the fact that I've spent so much time with ayahuasca (known for being one of the best healing psychedelics out there) and I'm still not any better, it makes me hesitant to spend more time and money on other retreats. But I'll keep iboga in mind, thanks

@RendHeaven I don't think going deep into spirituality or ego-death would be a good idea for me right now. I did 5-MeO-DMT today, and I always do a very light dose (I have a vape pen and I only do half of one pull). I'm okay with that amount, but there is still resistance at times, and sometimes when I get anxious, I get to the point where no matter how much I tell myself to surrender or let go, it won't happen, because my ego is very afraid and it's resisting at too deep of a level for my words or suggestions to make any difference. I'm fine with these low doses because the substance doesn't push me too hard, so it doesn't turn into a bad trip, it's just a bit uncomfortable at times, but I think being forced into an ego death would traumatize me. The main questions I have about contemplation on psychedelics is how do you think clearly when you are on a substance, and is it even a good idea to intentionally be thinking, because isn't it better to surrender and let go? It's not even that my contemplation attempts are fruitless, it's that it doesn't feel natural or right to be contemplating (I feel like my thoughts pull me away from the trip), so I just stop doing it, and I'm wondering if there is a certain way to contemplate on psychedelics? I do think it is probably the substance, I think I should try it on something like mescaline or mushrooms, but still, it feels weird to intentionally be thinking on a trip when I've always heard that you're supposed to calm your thoughts and surrender to the experience

@What Am I Thanks for the info

@What Am I yeah. I have a ton of emotional pain stored within me, I've been suffering with extreme mental health issues for years, and I'm finally starting to use psychedelics to try and heal them. Because of that, my ego is very fragile, fearful and attached, and so I'm trying to be very cautious with psychedelics as to not terrify and traumatize myself even more, because I know that could easily happen with my condition. I got back from an ayahuasca retreat almost a month ago, and I did the natural version of 5-meo-dmt there, which I enjoyed. Because of that I was comfortable trying the synthetic version, but the synthetic version feels stronger, and I feel like I could easily be pushed towards ego death and get traumatized if I take too much, so I stick with very small doses, and I'm going to do the same with malt. I tried mescaline recently and I absolutely loved it, it feels perfect for me, but now the problem i'm facing is that all the healing i've been getting doesn't last. I did 5 weeks of ayahausca (16 ceremonies + 6 Bufo), left totally transformed, then a few days later I was back to my normal self. The mescaline trip I did about a week ago also helped me a ton, but two days later I was back to how I was before. I think there is a part of me that is resisting the integration, that doesn't want to heal for some reason. I think doing parts work would be a good idea, so i'm going to work on doing that, but I was hoping I could also get some insight into what is causing this from psychedelics. I will be getting mushrooms and DMT next week so I've been thinking of working with small doses of those, but I am a little nervous to do so considering that they are not as gentle. But I'd appreciate people's advice here both on how to contemplate on psychedelics, and also with what psychedelics they suggest for me given my situation.

@OBEler thanks!