Demeter

Most people cry for the sheer beauty or wonder of spiritual experiences, but I am referring to crying out of pain and sadness. I have tried psychs 5 times - Lsd and shrooms in different doses. Invariably the onset is one of an emotional release or experiencing pain. At times the whole trip is one of tears (my first shrooms trip) and only once (at 300mcg Lsd) did the tears gave way to an uplifting breakthrough experience. Yesterday, for example, I took 1/2g shrooms (serbica or cyanescens) and experienced such intense pain that I wanted to hack my limbs off. If tears are supposed to release pain and heal, I wonder how much crying is enough. Or could one get caught in a cycle of grief as each day brings its disappointments? It may be that the low doses get one caught in the murkiness of our existences and at higher doses we can see beyond. I don't consider myself depressed but have experienced shitty stuff as a child and as an adult. I am seen as a successful individual and am currently conducting PhD research. Would very much like to hear from anyone who experiences pain and sorrow on taking psychs.

I am an amateur astrologer and I have the asteroid Karma conjunct my Sun. This could mean several things - that I carry the burden or the reward of past deeds. In my session with the shrooms, I had an insight that the Karma I carry is one of pain - that could be the pain from this life, or all my lives or the pain I see everywhere. Karma also includes the memories of pain I may have inflicted on other people. For it to be conjunct my Sun is a life where my quest for enlightenment or knowledge or beauty is driven by the need to lessen the pain. I felt that that is my destiny - to find ways of lessening pain. I sense that is also a gift - that in my quest to lessen the pain, I will see and note the myriad expressions of nobility, dignity and hope that can emerge despite the most extreme circumstances. Noting those instances will lend me courage and optimism. These are expressions of healing of those hellish spaces and how grace is manifest. After reading Bache's analysis of the 'Ocean of Suffering" I can now make better sense of this astrological aspect. The way the karma on my sun is a gift is it presents an opportunity to lessen the collective karma or suffering. And it is through this healing that I will find the freedom and transmutation I need to deepen my consciousness.

Dr Chris Bache speaks of the 'Ocean of Suffering' which he delved into over many Lsd sessions in his explorations into consciousness. He found that his experience of this Ocean of Suffering - which comprises the collective suffering of the species closely intertwined with our own individual suffering - had a therapeutic impact and that every act of healing, either large or small has an impact on the whole. The end result of this healing is a collective transformation. In response to the question, why does this experience of suffering eventually end for the individual when the reservoir of species suffering is so vast, he says: "It may be that the that given the sheer magnitude of planetary suffering, any one person is only allowed to do so much. Perhaps some cosmic oversight simply says "That's enough!", and one is released from further obligation" This makes beautiful sense. I could not see how the continued pain I experienced when using psychs could have emerged from this life-time alone. Perhaps it was the uncovering of the suffering of previous life-times or, as Bache suggests, the dipping into the collective pain of the species. This gives me the motivation to welcome all experiences that come my way.

@WaveInTheOcean , thanks for this. Just saw your post. Not sure how one gets notified when they are responded to.

This video is mindblowing. @Leo Gura , have you seen this? It is a must-see. The professor investigated 73 high doze sessions with Lsd and saw a consistent pattern emerging which led him into ever-deepening states of consciousness.

@erik8lrl , good advice, thanks. Despite the fact that I had planned to accept and surrender to whatever came my way, I was not surrendering to the pain, at least not fully. I was tending to view the experiences of pain with impatience and despair. @WaveInTheOcean , I found a great interview with Chris Bache here. It is fascinating. We could all do with reading his book.

@WaveInTheOcean , Thank you for the link. After reading the blurb it dawned on me that perhaps I was dipping into the collective consciousness of pain - the "ocean of suffering". That would explain the intensity and the apparent unending nature of it.

@Raptorsin7 , your plan sounds good. Kudos to you for recognising that you have hidden dark places that you need to resolve. Moving out of your parent's home would be a good start too. Perhaps your therapist could discuss that with them, in case you can't have a constructive conversation with them. As far deep dark places, so many of us carry these. I, for example, experience the pain whenever I use psychedelics (I suffered abuse as a child and also as an adult). Yesterday, I had 1/2g of shrooms and as is often the case, I cried non-stop for about 3 hours. At one point, the pain became so intense I wanted to hack my limbs off or to claw the flesh off my bones. I understood why people cut, because that lesser pain is a distraction from the deeper and worse pain. Then I remembered the myriad ways that people express nobility, dignity, love and hope despite the most extreme circumstances. I remembered a blind relative who's sense of humour and work ethic are an inspiration. People emerge somehow from the hellish spaces of their circumstances. Their responses are expressions of God's healing of those spaces and how grace is manifest. Instead of giving in to hopelessness or futility, I can be inspired by these people.

@seeking_brilliance , this notion of pain and suffering being necessary as way of God manifesting his potential is nonsense. I received this insight from a psy trip: there is pain because of free will. The original pain is the fear that we will be abandoned and left alone in a void. I understood that the pain of this fear is so extreme that people choose lesser pains as a distraction. God's grace and love is manifest in the myriad ways that people express dignity, nobility, love and hope despite the extreme pain of their circumstance. This is God healing those hellish spaces, This is how his beauty is most manifest.

@Waken , an inspiring read. Could to tell us more about your background, i.e., history of meditation (if you do any) and psychedelics. What you experienced is rare with Ayahuasca, so was wondering how you came to it.

@roki00 , very interesting post. Could you please explain more about your mantra chanting. How did that come about? How did you happen to choose the Shiva mantra and how do you use it? Do you pray to Shiva at the same time? Also, how have you used Kaali and which benefits did that bring about?

@Carl-Richard , what are the valid concerns other than addiction? Some psychedelics are not addictive so one could limit oneself to those. Both meditation and psychedelics hold the danger of worsening one's state of mind, although no comparisons have been made. Meditation, although a slower route, has the advantage of conferring additional benefits. Enlightening experiences through meditation are usually accompanied by developing other abilities, such as psychic or empathic. The raising of the kundalini through the chakras has the potential of developing abilities related to each chakra.

@James123 , if I may chip in here. Please explain about the lemon and chocolate. I have been sent 2 g of Psilocybe Serbica - a powerful and ancient species found by a friend from a forest in Germany. Could you please advise which way would be best to enhance their effect?

@Dario1995 the reason I mentioned that book is that it showed me how I had got it all wrong. Worth a read, if you can. Listen to him anyway.

@Dario1995 , those stories of spontaneous enlightenment and bliss experiences are more depressing than inspiring. Wonder how many people strive and aspire for the same and feel despair when nothting comes their way. I was given channelled advice that the high anxiety and tension caused by the striving acts as a barrier and so it is self-defeating. I spent many days and weeks in the belief that if I cried hard enough or desired hard enough I would become enlightened. Of course, it didn't happen. Have you read "Enlightenment Ain't What it's Cracked Up to be: A Journey of Discovery, Snow and Jazz in the Soul" by Robert Foreman? It is the most sensible book written on the topic. You'll find interviews by Robert Foreman on YouTube.

@AlwaysBeNice , Not sure I agree that chanting, or Mantra Yoga as it's known, is for everyone. I was initiated into a chanting practice involving a core sound or Bija Mantra such as 'Om", but found it did not lead me anywhere. It was a robotic most of the time and I failed to see any benefits. Admittedly, with the Hare Krishna groups, the chanting is accompanied by music and movement which makes it enjoyable - it is easier then to feel and open the heart.

@Dario1995 , could I please ask if you are leading a 'normal' life at the same time? Have you been through college and now have a job you enjoy? The intensity of your search, which I imagine is taking up all your spare time, itself can cause the feeling of hopelessness. More often than not, there is nothing loving and peaceful about spiritual endeavours. I, for example, at your age was experiencing the same or a Dark Night Of The Soul (have you read about the DNOTS experience?) and tried to cope by finding distractions. i.e., work I could enjoy, hobbies, friends, etc. The medication which lifts you provides an opportunity to find these distractions, preferably without guilt. One really can't strive and crave 24/7. You need to give yourself a break and rest in the knowledge that your aspirations set you apart from the majority of humanity. And most certainly, there will be a breakthrough.

@Jodistrict , thank you for this. Your comparison between 5Meo and Aya is very insightful, particularly how Aya goes for the heart while 5Meo is cerebral. So both are necessary and have their own place.

@tatsumaru , love your questions! You are the one pointing out that the emperor has no clothes on.

@Shakazulu , so you had been in psychedelics for a while before you tried 5Meo? Can you give some more info about how often, since when, etc?

Which thread it that please, @Dumuzzi ?

@Shakazulu , it's brave of you to write about what you experienced as a child. Very sorry to hear of it. Have you thought about therapy? What is RSD, please? Could you also describe your 5Meo trip which is rare for someone to begin with. Lsd is known for connecting parts of the brain which may not be communicating to each, so it can be tool for unearthing suppressed memeories. Wish you the very best in your journey.

@Member @Dumuzzi , let's not forget that the Klu Klux Klan also use conical hats. These are representative of anger, hate and exclusion.

@Bazooka Jesus , a really lovely account of your experience. Thanks. Please continue to post your insights. I tend to trust psych insights - these usually offer a counter and intelligent view.

@Dumuzzi , do you think raising your kundalini affected your thinking abilities? Most importantly, did it improve your memory? Or you were able to engage with and analyse complex ideas more effectively? I ask because I am about to embark on PhD studies and could do with a brain upgrade. I also wonder if sensible use of psychedelics might be helpful in this regard. Please tell us if you have any knowledge of this.