soos_mite_ah

@JosephKnecht @pdude I defiantly agree, ultimately it comes down to maturity. But what I'm trying to say is that maturity isn't the only factor that is at play here. It also comes down to where you are at your life. Let me explain with a couple examples so it makes more sense. When I was in high school, my friends and I were surrounded by college guys (we had a program at our high school where we could get dual credit through taking college classes so that we can graduate with a two year degree along with a high school diploma). When we were 15/16 years old, a lot of my friends had crushes on the college guys who were around us (they were around 18-20 ish). These girls were like "oh damn he has an idea of what he wants to do and have an actual conversation." And don't get me wrong, these girls were also mature for their age, and definitely more mature than the guys in my grade who still would lose their shit over fart jokes. But fast forward a few years when we are all 18/19 years old, we look back at these guys like, *ok that wasn't super impressive because it is normal to have some idea as to what you want to do at that age, that's the bare minimum, its not something to romanticize and put on a pedestal* But it's like, they were putting these guys on a pedestal because they weren't sure on what they wanted to do with their lives yet compared to these guys. And to an extent that's normal when you're 15 and are still at the stage where you are learning about yourself so it's not like they were in the wrong. They were doing what they're supposed to do and that's fine. But there was still a power differential because of age gap which does have to do with your life stage often time. I found myself into a similar situation last year. I decided it *f- it I'm going to date an older guy what can possibly go wrong* I was 19 and I dated a guy who was 23. It's not a crazy age difference, I mean it was only 4 years. Maturity wise, I'd say I clicked with him better than any guy i tried to message on tinder who was my age whose idea of dating was sending a "u up" text at 3 in the morning. I would go as far to say that it was probably one of the best dating experiences I have had. He was a great guy and I will agree that age isn't inherently a red flag, but it can come with a warning label. I doubt there was any malicious intent, he was extremely respectful and didn't play any games, but it's like I couldn't relate to where he was in his life. He had a whole career, had his car paid off, was completely financially independent etc. I was a college student who just finished her freshman year and who eats pizza rolls because I procrastinated on a paper and didn't have time to go to the dining hall. I still have yet to secure a steady job and a career because I am still exploring my options as a college student. There is nothing wrong with that, each of us are just doing what's normal for our stage of life. After the 3rd date, it felt as though we ran out of things to talk about since we were in different places as far as life experiences went. I simply told him that I wasn't feeling and we both respectfully moved on. Maturity wise it was fine, the difference was at our life stages, which can lead to an imbalanced power dynamic. I didn't stick around that long to get caught up in that type of thing because I didn't want to take a chance. You don't always have to have malicious intent to get into a situation that could turn unhealthy in the long run. Yeah I would say that this is a terrible, and rather immature way of dealing with a situation like this. I would imagine teasing someone about this type of thing can easily turn awkward and cringey, so I'm so sorry about your friend. I'm sure he didn't have any "dirty intentions" but I'm just trying to explain how it feels like on the other end, not as a woman, but as a younger person getting into a situation with a person who is much older. I'm not trying to argue, i'm just presenting my perspective for anyone else who might be viewing this thread. I can't say that i've had the equivalent of that happening to me but when I do reveal to a guy I'm talking to that I'm young and he turns out to be older than i expected, the energy shifts from flirtatious to "YOU KNOW, YOU'RE A GOOD KID." I actually had one guy say that to me and yeah it was a bit weird considering we were flirting for like a couple hours before that lmao.

Also i just remembered that Leo does talk about this in this video. He talks about education specifically from the 1 hour 45 min mark to the 2 hour 10 minute mark.

@Tanster I can't say I have all the answers but moving kids up the spiral would mainly have to do with integrating the different colors. A lot of it has to do with parents raising their kids but similar tactics can be used when it comes to teaching as well I suppose. Overall, i think the theme would be the same: the focus on critical thinking. Instead of like most schools that make you memorize a bunch of facts like "the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell," it's important for kids to know how to apply the knowledge that they are being given. Instead of hoarding information it should be about giving them the tools to analyze what is happening in the world. One thing that I would credit to really shifting my consciousness is when my music teacher in the 8th grade told my class something along the lines of "hey, what you're learning in school whether it is about music, science, history, whatever you're going to forget 90% of what you learn and it isn't going to matter. What matters is that you learn how to learn and take in information. " She went on this whole thing of how music helps you develop your brain and cognitive functioning, how science and math helps you be more logical and methodological, how history classes teach you to see the past as a bunch of case studies that indicate the patterns of present day thinking etc. It changed the way I looked at different subjects. Even though I am terrible at most science subjects, because of the approach to critical thinking i took when studying, I may not remember everything or know the nuances in scientific studies but I do know enough to sense bs claims when i encounter them (flat earthers, climate change deniers, how its okay to not go without a mask amidst a pandemic because its a hoax etc.) When it came to history, some of the history classes i hated the most involved straight memorization (what year did ___ happen, who was the general in ____ war ). Some of the history classes I did enjoy the most involved more critical thinking (how did this legislation impact ______. What does the power structure here say about the narrative in question? This is a concept/ theme that carries out in this time period and set the foundation for today etc) With English classes, learning how to communicate and analyze different points of view in literature is more important than memorizing passages from historically significant authors for instance. I could go on and on about other subjects but i guess my point is knowing to apply knowledge to create a tool kit of ideas > straight memorization. Apart form spiral dynamics, regardless of which stage a kid might be it, giving them the tools to progress on their own is key. It isn't always what material is being taught rather it is how it is being taught. Also, when teaching critical thinking I think it's also important for educators to deeply understand that kids aren't stupid and helpless. Sometimes I can see how it might feel that way but it often has to do with a lack of life experiences. Most kids i feel have the potential or have hints of green and yellow in them but they don't always come out because of their current situation (i.e. an ineffective education system that does not hone in their capabilities). It's kind of like a gene that hasn't been activated yet. A lot of kids have the ability to be compassionate and empathetic such as your example with the beggar and they have the ability to be imaginative for different systems, even if they aren't educated on all of the factors yet, because they have yet to become cynical with age. And to avoid this cynicism from the education system, it's important for teachers to not talk down on them and push a cynical attitude as well. As far as systemic changes, that would depend on where you're from. I know in the U.S. there is standardize testing. It irritates all of the students and stresses out teachers because funding is dependent on it. This is especially annoying when it comes to lower income areas because then all of the teachers get fixated on making sure everyone does well for a once a year exam so that the school won't lose funding than actually teaching the course. I remember being taught how to take a multiple choice exam for an English class for most of high school and then towards the end of the year, once testing was over, it felt like we were actually learning something. It was kinda sad. I couldn't help but wonder how much we could have learned delved into if we didn't have this stupid testing where 75% of our lessons for the year revolved around learning to eliminate answers in a multiple choice exam. Also availability of proper mental health care is also important in schools because of the backgrounds kids come from (like having an actual therapist in addition to a counselor). I remember once I was having an existential crisis when i was 16 and because i couldn't get therapy, i went to the school counselor. She tried to help but i quickly realized that she is probably wasn't the best person to go to since it felt like I was talking to a pinterst board that spit out random cliche quotes like ~follow your heart~ ~live laugh love~ lmaoo. It felt ineffective and I could see why people might be reluctant to get professional help with lackluster experiences such as these. If you come from a toxic, lower consciousness household, mental health is a huge must. That could possibly help kids from getting emotionally left behind and give them the tools of conflict resolution in their friend groups for instance.

I found a thread that really resonated with me. I went a little over board with my comment but I did enjoy writing immensely nonetheless. A large part of education I believe has to do with the beliefs you were brought up with in regards to the world, other people and perspectives, and yourself. It isn't something that is limited to reading, writing, and memorizing a bunch of facts. I would say that a large reason as to why this probably resonated is because I was raised in a problematic way and I had to take years to heal from negative parenting and learn skills I should have been taught. I took up that work as soon as I left my house at the age of 18. It was difficult and grueling work but it was very worth it. If i ever decide to have kids, I don't want them to deal with a fraction of the trauma and difficulty I had to sort out. I want to take responsibility and break as many cycles of toxicity as I can. It may not be perfect but it is a progression. And that means raising them in a conscious way. While I do enjoy self-development and do for conscious reasons, I'd say that passion originated from necessity early on which I will probably address in another post. But for now, I'm going to link the thread and copy and paste my reply on how to consciously raise kids right here: Ok I have wondered the same thing tbh. Here is what I think. I know this is long but I really contemplated about this in the past because if I choose to have kids, I want them to have an easier time developing than I did with my parents. You don't have to necessarily movie to a Scandinavian country to raise your kid in a stage green/yellow way. I think what you do inside your house is incredibly important. If anything, I think it's a good idea for kids to witness how different people from the spiral act to sharpen their critical thinking skills. From personal experience, my home life was pretty orange/blue, my neighborhood was green, and I went on many trips to India to visit family, many of whom who are very solidly blue. So i was surrounded by numerous perspectives. My dad, whom I will credit to helping me move up the spiral, helped me hone in my critical thinking skills to evaluate how each of these perspectives compare and work with each other even though neither one of us were aware of Spiral dynamics at the time. Even though my dad was very blue and orange, he still had a little bit of green and a slight bit of yellow in him. It was just enough to spark something in me. I would say that if you are pretty well integrated to green or higher, it would be easier to guide your child towards critical thinking rather than solely relying on obedience like blue or orange might (blue is largely dogmatic while orange is oriented around a hierarchy). So parenting should be focused on building and developing critical thinking skills so one would be prepared to handle the adult world by him/herself and deal with any problems that might come up. That said, I think it's also important to incorporate the lower stages in a healthy way so that the kid can integrate all of the colors. This would be a more yellow approach because while it doesn't see a false equivalency with how high or low a color is, it sees the value of each one of them as a building block. Beige is simply integrated by innate survival mechanisms, so that is basically providing for your kid. Purple is building a bond with the kid when they are still a child so that they have a healthy attachment style to their family/tribe. I remember seeing else where on this forum where people asked if it's possible to skip stages. I think everyone does go through all the stages. Many of us went through Beige to Red at an early age in a healthy way so it feels like we skipped it if that makes sense. Red is the more ego-centric stage which starts at around age 2 ish (i gotta refer back to developmental psych so i may not know the specifics but it starts young). Egos at this stage are still very important in developing a healthy sense of self. After all, to transcend the ego, one needs to have a well integrated ego in the first place. Around this time and onward, i think its important to build a healthy sense of self with positive reinforcement and a lot of encouragement (telling your child he/she is valued, loved, beautiful, smart etc.). This is important in combating future negative beliefs. To pass this stage on to stage blue, it's important to have solid boundaries with the kid (i.e. no hitting, no screaming, no *insert destructive thing that small children tend to do). This incorporates a sense of discipline in the child in a firm way. The more efficiently stage red and blue are integrated, the faster you can delve into additional spiral stages. Blue/Red should be stages, not what you do permanently going forward so even though i am saying firm boundaries are important to have, i don't mean indoctrinate your kid into a religion or tell your teenager that they can't to xyz because "you said so" etc. If this is done right, the kid can probably get into orange and green pretty early (like 6 or 7). I think orange can be integrated by having chores, encouraging productivity in school, learning to be assertive/ standing up for you self etc and really building good habits that will aid in their success going forward. Also, here I think it's important to reduce the "because I said so" attitude as much as possible and instead when enforcing rules, explain to your kids the logic behind the rules. I think at a certain stage it is counter productive to be authoritarian to a kid because then they'll start to rebel often because the rules don't make sense to them. This especially happens with the "because i said so" attitude because firstly it is condescending (not good for establishing open communication, trust, or credibility), and second, at around stage orange, kids will question their parents not necessary in an argumentative way but to understand. As the parent it is important to back those claims up with some sound answers instead of getting your ego into a twist and accusing them of arguing and "talking back". This aids in their critical thinking skills and even if they don't follow what they said, you still planted the seed of what to expect so they can learn by making their own mistakes. Green, i think can be introduced as early as 5 or so depending on the situation. For example, if your kid comes up to you at age 5 asking you "where do babies come from" you can take a stage green approach and explain how the sperm meets the egg and the baby form in the womb (instead of going into how sex works since that may not be age appropriate and most kids aren't even thinking in that train of thought). Speaking of which, green parenting is very positive, encouraging of different cultures, etc. Some ways to integrate green is encouraging self love, having an open dialog about sex in age appropriate ways, critiquing things in the media (like watching TV with your kid and asking them about what they saw and how it relates to treating other people well), encouraging boundaries for privacy and bodily autonomy (praising your kid when they tell an adult that they aren't comfortable with hugs and they let that adult know for example), regulating emotions effectively yet not suppressing them. Encourage them to empathize with other people and see their perspectives and emotions when they get in trouble with others. Create a space where they can open up and vulnerable about their lives with you so that you can guide them through life instead of being like an authoritarian dictator. That also means being attuned with their mental health and how they are coping with the world around them. Those are some ways but im pretty sure there is so much more. Avoid stigmatizing things and creating taboos as they can create shadows in your kids. As far as yellow goes, it comes down to judging where your kid is in the spiral and adjusting how you parent to integrate the previous stages accordingly. It comes down to what is developmentally good for the child in the long run so that they can be functioning adults. Once the other stages are exhausted and integrated efficiently, stage yellow shouldn't be too hard to reach. Often times, in respective of my personal journey, I find that an effective way to move from green to yellow is to integrate anything you might be missing from the lower stages to where you can see the healthy use for each of them. Another way is to encourage thinking about how things work systemically and some of the short comings of green. To do all of this effectively, the child needs to move through each stage at their own pace so results can vary depending on individual circumstances. Finally, when the kid has a healthy ego with minimum shadows and can see how relative different perspectives are, they can transcend that and move into turquoise. Idk how that would turn out but i think it's good to drop hints about things like nonduality etc. in passing so that the seeds are planted and the kid can explore them at their own pace.

Also I thought this was a very cute, wholesome, higher consciousness way of dealing with kids ☺️

Ok I have wondered the same thing tbh. Here is what I think. I know this is long but I really contemplated about this in the past because if I choose to have kids, I want them to have an easier time developing than I did with my parents. You don't have to necessarily movie to a Scandanavian country to raise your kid in a stage green/yellow way. I think what you do inside your house is incredibly important. If anything, I think it's a good idea for kids to witness how different people from the spiral act to sharpen their critical thinking skills. From personal experience, my home life was pretty orange/blue, my neighborhood was green, and I went on many trips to India to visit family, many of whom who are very solidly blue. So i was surrounded by numerous perspectives. My dad, whom I will credit to helping me move up the spiral, helped me hone in my critical thinking skills to evaluate how each of these perspectives compare and work with each other even though neither one of us were aware of Spiral dynamics at the time. Even though my dad was very blue and orange, he still had a little bit of green and a slight bit of yellow in him. It was just enough to spark something in me. I would say that if you are pretty well integrated to green or higher, it would be easier to guide your child towards critical thinking rather than solely relying on obedience like blue or orange might (blue is largely dogmatic while orange is oriented around a hierarchy). So parenting should be focused on building and developing critical thinking skills so one would be prepared to handle the adult world by him/herself and deal with any problems that might come up. That said, I think it's also important to incorporate the lower stages in a healthy way so that the kid can integrate all of the colors. This would be a more yellow approach because while it doesn't see a false equivalency with how high or low a color is, it sees the value of each one of them as a building block. Beige is simply integrated by innate survival mechanisms, so that is basically providing for your kid. Purple is building a bond with the kid when they are still a child so that they have a healthy attachment style to their family/tribe. I remember seeing else where on this forum where people asked if it's possible to skip stages. I think everyone does go through all the stages. Many of us went through Beige to Red at an early age in a healthy way so it feels like we skipped it if that makes sense. Red is the more ego-centric stage which starts at around age 2 ish (i gotta refer back to developmental psych so i may not know the specifics but it starts young). Egos at this stage are still very important in developing a healthy sense of self. After all, to transcend the ego, one needs to have a well integrated ego in the first place. Around this time and onward, i think its important to build a healthy sense of self with positive reinforcement and a lot of encouragement (telling your child he/she is valued, loved, beautiful, smart etc.). This is important in combating future negative beliefs. To pass this stage on to stage blue, it's important to have solid boundaries with the kid (i.e. no hitting, no screaming, no *insert destructive thing that small children tend to do). This incorporates a sense of discipline in the child in a firm way. The more efficiently stage red and blue are integrated, the faster you can delve into additional spiral stages. Blue/Red should be stages, not what you do permanently going forward so even though i am saying firm boundaries are important to have, i don't mean indoctrinate your kid into a religion or tell your teenager that they can't to xyz because "you said so" etc. If this is done right, the kid can probably get into orange and green pretty early (like 6 or 7). I think orange can be integrated by having chores, encouraging productivity in school, learning to be assertive/ standing up for you self etc and really building good habits that will aid in their success going forward. Also, here I think it's important to reduce the "because I said so" attitude as much as possible and instead when enforcing rules, explain to your kids the logic behind the rules. I think at a certain stage it is counter productive to be authoritarian to a kid because then they'll start to rebel often because the rules don't make sense to them. This especially happens with the "because i said so" attitude because firstly it is condescending (not good for establishing open communication, trust, or credibility), and second, at around stage orange, kids will question their parents not necessary in an argumentative way but to understand. As the parent it is important to back those claims up with some sound answers instead of getting your ego into a twist and accusing them of arguing and "talking back". This aids in their critical thinking skills and even if they don't follow what they said, you still planted the seed of what to expect so they can learn by making their own mistakes. Green, i think can be introduced as early as 5 or so depending on the situation. For example, if your kid comes up to you at age 5 asking you "where do babies come from" you can take a stage green approach and explain how the sperm meets the egg and the baby form in the womb (instead of going into how sex works since that may not be age appropriate and most kids aren't even thinking in that train of thought). Speaking of which, green parenting is very positive, encouraging of different cultures, etc. Some ways to integrate green is encouraging self love, having an open dialog about sex in age appropriate ways, critiquing things in the media (like watching TV with your kid and asking them about what they saw and how it relates to treating other people well), encouraging boundaries for privacy and bodily autonomy (praising your kid when they tell an adult that they aren't comfortable with hugs and they let that adult know for example), regulating emotions effectively yet not suppressing them. Encourage them to empathize with other people and see their perspectives and emotions when they get in trouble with others. Create a space where they can open up and vulnerable about their lives with you so that you can guide them through life instead of being like an authoritarian dictator. That also means being attuned with their mental health and how they are coping with the world around them. Those are some ways but im pretty sure there is so much more. Avoid stigmatizing things and creating taboos as they can create shadows in your kids. As far as yellow goes, it comes down to judging where your kid is in the spiral and adjusting how you parent to integrate the previous stages accordingly. It comes down to what is developmentally good for the child in the long run so that they can be functioning adults. Once the other stages are exhausted and integrated efficiently, stage yellow shouldn't be too hard to reach. Often times, in respective of my personal journey, I find that an effective way to move from green to yellow is to integrate anything you might be missing from the lower stages to where you can see the healthy use for each of them. Another way is to encourage thinking about how things work systemically and some of the short comings of green. To do all of this effectively, the child needs to move through each stage at their own pace so results can vary depending on individual circumstances. Finally, when the kid has a healthy ego with minimum shadows and can see how relative different perspectives are, they can transcend that and move into turquoise. Idk how that would turn out but i think it's good to drop hints about things like nonduality etc. in passing so that the seeds are planted and the kid can explore them at their own pace.

@Zigzag Idiot Yeah I definitely welcome questions and comments on here. In fact, I'd say I encourage it. I'd love to hear about people's thoughts and opinions to see what came up for them while reading this journal so we can all share our perspectives together

Correct me if I'm wrong but could completely isolating oneself for the sake of enlightenment create a large spiritual ego if done prematurely? Like I get some people may be in the position to fully deconstruct the ego, but for people who aren't at that place yet and who still have other work to do, could it be counter productive? I'm just curious and I'm piecing together/ thinking through other responses on here. Just something to think about or consider.

@bejapuskas I agree. Lately I've been trying to do somewhat of an emotional "temperature check" to see what resonates and feels authentic. I figured that it's a better alternative to doing something or being someone I'm not just to fit in (since that would turn the attention towards them when really I need to take my needs into consideration). I have a couple friends in my city, neither of whom go to my school. I've been meaning to get involved more in my community outside of college but last semester my course load was rather heavy and then the pandemic happened so I mean I gotta consider those things first. Relationships are nice but I wouldn't say they are super urgent, yet it is still something that is in the back of my mind. Also, yeah I don't think limiting oneself to spirituality is the answer either, but I guess that depends on where you are on your journey and what you need according to that as it is mentioned earlier in this thread.

Currently, the thing that is bringing me the most joy and fulfillment is this anthropology class that I am taking over the summer called "Health as a Human Right." A lot of the readings critique things like "voluntourism", where doctors travel to a developing country for 2 weeks in hopes of treating numerous people with a certain disease. At first it doesn't look like a huge issue. If anything, it looks very charitable. The arguments against this consist of the following (The main source I got these arguments is from Paul Farmer's book Pathologies of Power. It's a great read if you're looking for a yellow perspective with a critique of green) 1. Going to a country for 2 weeks doesn't fix the system that is at play rather it simply patches up the symptoms of the system. Many of the problems regarding diseases in developing countries boil down to power dynamics that are present in that society, access to healthcare, and ability to go forth with medical treatment. In this class I had to dissect this case study on HIV/AIDs in Haiti. Granted, this ethnography was from the late 80s and the 90s but it was a good case study nonetheless. Firstly it talks about the power dynamic between the patients and the doctors. There is this whole "the doctor tells you what to do and you have to follow through with it" dynamic present along with colonial narratives of being a white savior and swooping into a "primitive" country to solve all of their problems. As far as access to health care goes, the treatments for the diseases are there but aren't available to the poorest patients, who are usually the most at risk in the first place due to poor infrastructure and structural violence. Often times, medical professionals are critiqued on how the treatment needs to be more affordable but the argument is how could you put a value on a human life because it should be a human right so that people can live without suffering and with dignity. Capitalizing off of the drugs used for treatment from vulnerable populations is not ethical by any means and shouldn't be done for profit. There are many arguments against capitalism when it comes to basic human needs. Finally, even if those people do get treatment, they often still lack homes, jobs that pay for treatment, running water, and other infrastructural concerns that can make focusing on getting better much harder. Often times, people who are in this position try to get by by stopping medication as soon as they feel slightly better so that they can go back to work to provide for their families. Of course, not going through fully with treatment is detrimental in the long run and on top of that these patients are also labeled as "non-compliant" which means they didn't follow directions. While that is true it does not tell the whole story because it does not capture why people couldn't go through with treatment and is often used as a justification for the narrative that "these people don't want health and don't care." 2. It negates what the community might actually need and instead resort to playing "white savior." Often times people who do travel to developing countries for a 2 week volunteering trip, the odds are that people don't know anything about the culture, what is infrastructurally wrong etc. It also harms local professionals in that area by taking their jobs. Instead a solution to this is ensuring that people who want to go on a trip like this have previously stayed at the country at question for a certain period of time in a position of observation so that they can see the systems that are involved and act accordingly. Another thing to consider is that first world countries that hope to offer resources ask developing countries exactly what resources and expertise they need instead of swooping in and doing everything for them. Because swooping in often sends the message that the locals can't solve things and develop their infrastructure themselves. 3. It uses the suffering of others as a resume piece instead of treating the people like actual human beings Often times, when people do participate in "voluntourism" they do so in order to fill their resume to send the message to their employers or college applications to say "hey look, I'm a good person I do all of this work in developing countries." Now, I'm not saying that people do not deserve credit for things they did to hone their expertise but rather there needs to be extra consideration taken when it comes to dealing with the suffering of many people. This argument reminded me a lot about Teal Swan's video on altruism and how that can be self serving. Another great source that popped up into my YouTube recommended that touches on these points Other things that I found interesting in this course includes how social issues such as racism, education, the prison system, violence etc. relate to public health and how human rights issues are contagious and can be treated like a disease. It talks about how it is important to systemically prevent issues like how public health is geared towards prevention while medicine is geared towards in the moment treatment. This course also talks about the epistemology of disease and how people attribute causes to different diseases. It ranges from how some people thinks it may be a curse (stage purple), to god punishing them (stage blue), to a microscopic organism (stage orange), to inequality (stage green), and to systemic issues (stage yellow). This class showed the short comings of green, even though there were good intentions, and pointed out the failings of orange. The only thing I wish is that my professor discussed spiral dynamics since it is such a deep model and can explain a lot of things we are discussing in the context of this class. This class ultimately felt like a wealth of insight as I pieced many perspectives together from my previous knowledge that I gained in my psychology, sociology, political science, and even business classes in college. And I ate that up. Sure it's a lot of work crammed into one month of summer classes but I am enjoying and basking in every moment of it.

@JosephKnecht In regards to dating older guys, I can't say I 100% agree but I respect this perspective nonetheless. As far as the ego and enlightenment, thank you for clearing that up. I was a little confused so its no big deal. I guess it depends where you are in your development/ stage and what you will see as a need/ aid to your growth. Different things work for different people depending on your internal or external environment.

@wwhy There is nothing wrong with just talking to a young woman. But looking to date/ flirt with someone significantly younger can be a red flag. These guys probably understood that there is a power dynamic involved and things can be a little weird. But yeah, it can come off as a certain way because there are tons of men who can't compete with women their age because they are too immature. So instead these men try to prey on younger women who will idolize them because they are in a different stage in life and because younger women won't call them out on their bs like an older woman who knows what is normal for their age might. At 20, you might not be a "young clueless girl" but you aren't developmentally a woman either (I'm talking about the prefrontal cortex). There is still a large lack of life experience and a lot of growing to do. There is nothing wrong with that, you are just where you are doing what you're supposed to do, but older guys sometimes can try to prey on the sense of naivety. It's obviously not all older guys but there is enough people like that to where there is a connotation. With the apology, they wanted to communicate that its not like that by leaving me alone to pursue someone closer to their age.

@JosephKnecht I don't mind advances in regards to friendships. Sometimes, when I start to feel that my loneliness is getting a little out of hand, before i start spiraling, I usually pop up in one of my professor's office hours and start nerding out about what we are discussing in class and then go off topic to talk about other things. Often times I leave those conversations feeling more fulfilled and for some reasons I find myself clicking with them better than a lot of other people in my classes. So I agree, common interest are a huge component and advances in regards to friendships from people who are older aren't something to shy away from. Romantically, that's another story. I feel that getting into a romantic/ intimate relationship with someone much older than you at a young age isn't always the best idea because of the power dynamic involved developmentally which can lead to unhealthy or even abusive situations in some cases. People tend to grow a lot emotionally and circumstantially during their formative years from 15-25 before their frontal lobe is developed. Which is why the difference in life experiences is so stark to where if someone caught a 16 year old and a 24 year old dating, it would raise a ton of red flags and questions while a 26 year old dating a 34 year old would be less questionable. From what I understand age gets less relevant as time goes on because people on average tend to level out more after 25 ish. It's not a maturity, where you are in the spiral thing, rather it is more of a where are you at your life kind of thing. I may be be more mature than the average person my age, but I'm still in the same place in terms of life experiences/ circumstance (i.e. going to college, still figuring out my career etc.) Even if I met a 17 year old stage yellow/ turquoise guy (for example's sake) who I really resonated with, I would still be hesitant to date him because he would still be a high school junior while I'm a sophomore in college. Those 3 years make a large difference when you're young while they may be completely irrelevant when you're older. Also in regards to the ego, I can see how it's relevant because it's like if you are looking to relate to people, it still means you identify with something. But, isn't curating healthy and higher consciousness relationships also incredibly beneficial? I wouldn't say that I'm super desperate about making friends or getting into a relationship and I would say that I'm pretty comfortable with being by myself, but a few high quality relationships would be pretty nice. It's more of a preference than a need if that makes sense. It's just a question I have since I would say that I'm pretty new to really deconstructing the ego.

@Username I think because of the college I chose along with the subjects I chose to take, i suppose there are people who do get filtered out. I did find people with some shared interests, but for some reason we don't always click on a more personal level. Then again, lately I caught myself not being super social and focusing more on developing myself, my education, and just being over socializing so that may have a large role in it. I also encountered a lot of people who are in the same classes as me who aren't really into what they are studying. I try to bring up class and the subjects we're talking about (since that's currently what is bringing me the most joy and is what I'm super interested in at the moment) and they look at me like *can you not talk about school* I can take a hint so I'm not going to go full nerd on these people since I can see a lack of response lmao. But yeah i guess what I'm trying to say is that even with the same classes, i don't always share common interests with people Also I would say that I chose the college im going to for the program rather than the social environment so that's another factor to consider. I would say that the student body is blue and VERY orange (there is some green people but they are in the minority and most people see them as the weirdos on campus because the school as a whole is pretty conservative) with a huge emphasis on Greek life. Nothing wrong with that, they are where they are. Just getting wasted at a frat house isn't really my idea of a good time. Not everyone is like that and a lot of them know how to have fun without getting out of hand but i will admit, while i can enjoy myself, i still feel lacking in connection because none of it really resonates with me. Hence why i have a lot of acquaintances but not many friends.

@Espaim Nice to know I'm not alone ?? And I don't regret it one bit.

@Username no. I think the last time I checked I either got intj or intp

@Madhur Yeah I agree. I don't regret going on this path at all and I think it's for the better in the long run. Like any path, there is a trade off. It sucks sometimes and it feels lonely but in my opinion it's a small price to pay in relative terms.

@Carl-Richard I agree. Then again I'm not too worried about being more of a lone wolf for a while so I'm not looking to desperately find a tribe. I'm sure I'll eventually find people who resonate with me in real life. It's not like I'm thinking of crawling under a rock for the remainder of my days

@MDMD Thank you so much I'll see what I can do. I guess sometimes I underestimate the amount of people still in survival since I digest a lot of content from places like this. I especially noticed this in the last year or so. It wasnt that I lost interest in the world and got depressed, but that even though I could enjoy myself and talk about things, none of it would really resonate. On top of that, sometimes I want to share what I'm going through spiritually, but I know a lot of people will look at me like I'm a space cadet because it won't resonate with them either. Just imagine trying to talk to a random person about feeling like there is no actual self ????

@Brahman I completely forgot about the swamp episode thank you so much for mentioning. There is just so much in this show and I'm pretty sure that I'm still missing something lol

@Cykaaaa When I first watched it I also questioned the inconsistency in Katara and Sokka's characters. But then I was like, it almost rounds them out more and makes them more multidimensional. Still an amazing show nonetheless

As far as my personal journey goes, three years ago I would consider myself very green with bits of orange in me. I was very into feminism, anti-capitalism, equality, understanding a variety of cultures for a global, inclusive perspective. Back then I was also very emotionally closed off and afraid of vulnerability and saw it as a weakness on my part even though I wouldn't have judged other people in the same way. Since then, I was placed in a very blue/ orange environment. Initially, because I was very green, it was my knee-jerk reaction to start moralizing to these blue/orange people and start shoving my thoughts on society and politics on them. I was very triggered and I thought it was absolutely necessary to put up a fight because or else I would be complicit. I saw them as demons or people who lacked any type of empathy towards the disadvantaged in society. After a couple years of being in this environment, I noticed that I don't feel the need to lecture about my views anymore to people who do not agree with me. Because I was around very blue/orange people, I eventually started understanding where their points are coming from and how these views were created in the first place even though I do not agree with them. They ceased to appear as demons and I could see how they played into a larger social system and how they were simply playing their part. I was already having these thoughts and observations and upon discovering spiral dynamics, a lot of things, starting from the people I was around to the subjects I was studying, began to make sense. While my political and social stances have not changed, I would say that my attitude has. I can see how their perspective fits into the greater narrative and progression in society. I am at a point where I don't think perspectives are right or wrong but they just are, similar to how our feelings aren't right or wrong but an indication of our internal state. Instead of perspectives falling into a binary of right vs. wrong, they fall under a spectrum of complete vs. incomplete. And when we have an incomplete perspective, to make it more holistic, we can either look at the holes and humbly admit that we simply don't know, or find information and narratives to fill those holes, not because we need to be more right than the other perspectives, but so that we can take those other perspectives and create a more accurate picture. As far as being emotionally closed off goes, I have worked through those issues in therapy and through self development to the point where I am open with my feelings and I even am open to my negative emotions such as fear, anger, and sadness as they inform what is going on in ego and self and can be a source of insight. However, while I have made progress, I would say that I have a bad habit of thinking about my feelings rather than feeling my feelings. This is still a work in progress. I think I fall somewhere between green and yellow though I wouldn't be surprised if part of me is still in orange. However, I'm not sure since the ego can over estimate itself on the spiral which is why I wanted to ask this question. How do you know when you have moved from green to yellow? If you have made that transition, what made you realize you shifted and what was your experience?

@Leo Gura Thank you so much. Also, from what I get from stage yellow is that this stage does not fall into the trap of false equivalency. As a result, I'm guessing yellow can see the short comings as well as the necessities of each stage and how it falls into a natural hierarchy. Given this, would yellow's judgement be more of a discernment? Would the difference between judgement and discernment be whether or not there is an emotional reaction to the subject in question?

@Leo Gura I don't agree with the capitalistic value for excessive materialism as that can be very toxic and limited since it does not include the perspectives of most people who do not benefit from increasing profits because of how wealth is distributed. Nevertheless, I can see how those motivations did help in creating the orange economy we have today and create prosperity after industrialization which I respect since it is a foundation for further societal development. In regards to religious people, while I do not believe in religion and the dogmas that it can carry, I can see the ways religion can manifest as a healthy and necessary force in people's lives. The way i think of it, if the belief of a supernatural deity can give you guidance, hope for the future, peace of mind, and help you sleep at night, who am i to judge? I will admit that a part of me does tend to judge religious people when they abandon critical thinking to the point where they hurt people (ie sexism, terrorism etc), however I can see why they feel or think that way which does temper my initial judgments. I guess I still do have my judgments but I have softened those judgments considerably over the years with empathy and understanding.

Yes, this used to happen relatively frequently to me. The way i have tried to combat this is by accepting that not everyone is going to be in the same level of development as you and that they need to develop in their own pace. All of that is perfectly fine and it is all going along in the right timing. I also began thinking of how important it is to judge people based on where THEY are at rather than judging them based on where YOU are at and the standards you hold yourself to. The first is more objective to their situation and the later is more filtered through your ego. It okay to discern that you are more conscious in certain ways as long as it comes from a place of discernment and humility rather than from a place of a boastful "this means I am better than you" attitude. Also the things we judge in others are often things we judge in ourselves. So another thing that helped me was noticing accepting the ways that I display unhealthy mindsets. I am still working through them just like everyone else, but I try not to be emotionally too hard on myself as that can be counter productive to progress.