soos_mite_ah

Upon further reflection, I think I feel drained because I'm working through a lot of resistance when I'm around them. It's the resistance towards my own annoyance and my desire to snap. I don't think about them draining me. My head is like "why are you acting and feeling like this? You need to be respectful. They are literally not doing anything." But my feelings are like "I don't like these people, I feel drained, and I feel irritable anyway." I don't think that my thoughts are influencing my feelings rather my thoughts are trying to dictate my feelings and are confused as to why my feelings are acting the way they are.

I decided to post the videos in this format so that I can cross them out and write out how I've integrated it. This is just to keep this clean cut.

Getting the Fundamentals Down (Noah Elkrief) I finally got around to watching all of Noah Elkrief's videos. His earlier videos especially was really repetitive in how he used the same examples and the same over arching lessons. I watched all of them anyway as a way to integrate the few messages that were there and burn it into my subconscious mind to the point where it feels like common sense. I also journaled and contemplated about the messages for myself as well. In addition to that, I went ahead and included the videos that I really need to integrate for my solid foundation below:

Reconciling Preferences and Needs with the Absolute and Relative The reason why I got attached to detaching was because I wanted to peel back the layers of who I thought I was to get in touch with my most authentic self. I'm not my tastes, preferences, hobbies, or even personality traits. Those are things I have but they aren't me. And even if any of those things changed, I'd still be me. But I held the absolute on some type of pedestal compared to the relative truths to where I wanted to sacrifice my own personal truth. That wasn't healthy and caused me to lose myself, and not in the blissful and enlightened way. As a result for the last couple months I've been taking a break from more existential topics. I wanted to connect back to my sense of self in a healthy way. I've also been brushing up on more foundational forms of self help that helps in creating a healthy ego through self expression, self exploration, advocating for your boundaries, understanding your wants and needs etc. It makes me feel like I have my head screwed on a little tighter and has been beneficial for me. The most refreshing and enjoyable part of this was when I made myself a Pinterest board and went shopping. Making the Pinterest board helped me come back to connecting to what I liked and gravitated towards without me writing it off as "oh this isn't absolute truth, stop distracting yourself, all of this is a materialistic illusion the ego puts on to deceive itself to thinking it's real." And going shopping made me feel more in alignment with my sense of self expression and made me feel more confident and in alignment and less repressed. I don't think that I'm attached to who I am right now and how I choose to express myself. This is a part of me exploring myself and as a result I'm open to change. And because that attachment isn't there, I don't think this is a product of reinforcing ego rather it's simply honoring the form my consciousness is taking at the moment. I think our preferences, tastes, hobbies, personality traits, etc. gets egoic when we believe that it is something stagnant in ourselves. One example may be saying you're not the type of person who goes to the gym as a way of avoiding exercise. In this case, you're attached to the idea of not going to the gym to where it's part of your identity and making yourself exercise is going against your self concept. Another example maybe identifying as a goth so much to where when your style naturally evolves out of it, you start having some type of identity crisis (it's not a phase mom). In both cases, you want to stay the way you are because changing is like the death of you. There is no openness to explore. Sure there is nothing wrong with being goth or being the type of person who doesn't go to the gym for the moment and honoring that, but there is a problem when you think that those things are inherent to who you are and aren't influenced by outside influences like your environment or past life experiences. Preferences, tastes, hobbies, personality traits, etc. gets egoic when we believe that something we're doing has some absolute truth that other people have to agree with or aspire to. Back to the example with not wanting to exercise. It's ok to honor that preference, but it becomes an attachment when you start judging other people who go to the gym or think your way to live is the right way to live. It might be right for you but it might not be for others for a variety of reasons. Dressing in a gothic way may be a way of expressing yourself and that's fine but it becomes an attachment when you think that everyone is some type of conformist sheep with no originality because people don't dress the way you do. I think another good way to look at preferences in the context of knowing absolute truth is to look at sexual orientations. From what I understand, it's unlikely that a person would change their sexual orientation or what they personally consider attractive before and after enlightenment when they realize that their orientation isn't some type of absolute truth. You're still going to have your preferences and still want to honor them. But it's highly unlikely that you'll be homophobic or look down on people who have different preferences compared to you because you know that your preference isn't something that everyone has to align with and you have compassion for people who have different preferences than you whether that be on the level of sexual orientation or simple physical tastes (fat women aren't objectively better/worse than skinny women for example, it's ok for people to polygamous or monogamous etc. people are allowed to like what they like). And you won't judge yourself if you do find your sexual orientation changing or evolving if you wish to explore your sexuality more. Another example may be physical taste. I may like chocolate but that's relative because it has to do with my personal taste buds, the culture and food I was raised around, what I'm biologically craving etc. But not everyone likes chocolate and they have their own reasons for that as well and that's ok. I can still like chocolate, it's not a preference that I need to transcend just because it isn't the absolute truth. I'm not attached to liking chocolate. Something might happen tomorrow that might make chocolate taste like trash and it probably won't hurt my sense of self. It might be a weird experience, but it's not going to launch me into an identity crisis lol. Finally, when it comes to the topic of needs, I think that's something that a lot of people try to transcend because it's seen as a selfish survival mechanism. Sure some needs are unhealthy, like an unhealthy need for excessive attention, and could be examined (but then again what is considered excessive attention and unhealthy are subjective terms relative to what we believe as healthy), but other needs are incredibly important. For me, I have an emotional need to not have sex until I get into a committed relationship. I don't want to engage in casual sex or have sex with someone who I don't have romantic feels for or haven't dated for at least a few of months. But I know that not everyone has this need. For some people it is healthy to have casual sex. I don't expect people to have the same needs as me for whatever reason nor do I look down on them or judge them. This need I have isn't some universal truth that applies to everyone and that's fine. And who knows, maybe later on in life I won't have this need and that will change given my life circumstances. That's ok too. I'm not attached to this need that I have but nevertheless I think it's healthy to honor it instead of forcing myself to do something that I don't want to do and go against my authenticity. The same could be said with nutritional needs. I know for me personally, intermittent fasting and keto does not work but that doesn't meant that it isn't going to work for other people because hey they might have different genetics, life styles, environment, and health conditions to think of therefore the decision is relative to that. Not everyone has to or should do keto and intermittent fasting. For me personally, going on a low carb diet and cutting out most grains made my body feel terrible and intermittent fasting got neurotic for me. It isn't my diet and I should honor that instead of forcing anything but it might be the perfect solution for someone else. And who knows, maybe things will change and I'll come around to keto and intermittent fasting in the future and that's ok too. I don't think I have that many attachments to my needs, preferences, likes, dislikes, personality traits, etc. But that doesn't mean that I can't honor them or that honoring them means that I'm egotistical. I can honor my relative truth so long as I recognize that it's relative and doesn't apply to everyone because of different perspectives and situations. If anything, honoring your own relative truth is like honoring a piece of absolute truth.

I catch myself judging myself for having weird hobbies that often involve self development and spirituality. I know these things aren't inherently weird but there is a part of me that feels weird because of the way spirituality is seen by nonspiritual people. I'm much more open on this forum and this place gives me a safe space/outlet to talk about things that I'm actually into and actually am working on. I wish I could be as authentic irl but in social interactions, I notice that I'm kind of afraid to say something that will make me look crazy. So as a result, I feel that I give off a rather closed off energy because I'm hesitant to talk about things that actually interest me. I guess I need to find a different social circle that shares my interests. But I don't know where to look irl and the fact that I'm stuck in the house doesn't help either. So until I figure out what I can do to change my circumstances, I'm thinking about trying to change my mindset and work through the shame I have around the stuff that I'm into. Thoughts?

Fair enough. I've had a lot of benefits from learning about spirituality and similar topics. I guess for me it's the fear of being seen as irrational or someone who just has their heads in the clouds. I think it's the stage orange social pressure to want to be seen as rational and logical. And my thing is that I do have critiques about new age spirituality. While I don't consider myself a new ager, I can see a lot of my views being interpreted as such. Which isn't a bad thing, new age spirituality has a lot of points. My critique is that a lot of new agers can lack decent stage orange integration and that's what causes them to look crazy and cringey. Without proper proper stage orange integration to stage green ideas, you get anti vaxxers who believe essential oils will protect you, companies like Goop, and people who think frutarianism or bretharianism are healthy and sustainable lifestyles just to name a few. I guess I just don't want to be associated with that group if that makes sense. I think that's one of the reasons why I got attracted to Leo's videos since 2018. They discussed spirituality but had a more integrative and systemic way of looking at it as opposed to "let's gather in a circle, talk about oneness, and start manifesting with crystals." Actualized.org to me seems a more holistic and integrative source that does a more solid analysis about existential topics.

I'm afraid of looking like a walking Awaken With JP parody lmao

I mean it's just things related to self development, spirituality, journaling, meditation etc. None of them are weird on this site but I know that if I talk about spirituality and meditation to the average person irl they'd probably think I'm insane. I normally try to mask these interests with my interest for the social sciences like psychology or sociology, or something like analyzing media and politics. Don't get me wrong, I'm also interested in that as well but there is a part of me that feels like I can't fully be authentic. I feel like this spongebob meme when I'm watering down my interests to not be labeled as crazy:

I mean that's true that men on here are more likely to be honest but I have also met plenty of normal guys and have been friends with guys who were honest about this type of thing and they aren't caught up in some type of ideology.

Tbh, I never got that vibe from Teal. I think it's necessary for a woman to not seek a man for containment physically. The way I saw it that that Teal tends to critique the whole "I have to do everything myself in order to be considered empowered" narrative. Because being super independent to the point where you can't ask people for help, you feel like you are alone fending for yourself, and you push people away isn't healthy. For women, there is a narrative that is pushed in society where she is expected to be a superwoman of sorts and who is able to do it all with no help from anyone, but that simply isn't realistic because it causes women to be exhausted and spread herself too thin (basically the stage orange narrative of what it means to be a strong woman and how it sometimes demonizes femininity by painting it as weak and can cause both men and women to be emotionally unavailable). Instead, it can be incredibly beneficial for a partner to step in and take care of some of that responsibility so that women can relax a little. And there is no shame in that so long as it doesn't devolve into codependency. I agree with this. I think Teal was addressing masculine containment here because socially there has always been the expectation for women to be kind and nurturing in a relationship whereas for men there is this expectation to be stoic and standoffish because they aren't socialized to be connection oriented the way women are. Also there is a lot of men who get babied by their moms and expect their future girlfriends to be a care giver of sorts once those men move out. It's kind of like saying, "hey men still have responsibility here, the woman shouldn't do ALL of the work whether that be emotionally or otherwise."

I feel that the dating section brings out the worst in a lot of people. And a lot of the more conscious people try to avoid this section because of that and instead rather focus on their development. Personally, I try to avoid this section and mind my own business in my journal. But I still get tempted. It's something I'm working on because a lot of what's being said in this section isn't affecting me in a healthy way. I agree with you and @Preety_India on this. I get that sometimes Leo tries to say things like "it's all survival" as a way to direct both parties to a more meta perspective, but imo, there is a time and place for that because then some people take that and further entrench themselves in their ideology. I've seen another thread that went in this direction and I get that all of his teachings can't be idiot proof and it's up to us to not misconstrue the teachings but at the same time he needs to meet people where they're at and direct them towards the next step, not skip a bunch of steps. It's like teaching a second grader calculus and expecting that kid to not get even more confused. Totally agree. A lot of this theorizing also leads to a form of victim mentality like "oh I guess I'm too much of a nice guy" or "I guess my jaw isn't square enough and I'm too short." Those are actual insecurities don't get me wrong but dealing with them by manipulating people instead of addressing their issues with self love leads to disaster. Granted I haven't had much of a social life from like 2018 to now (so like 3.5 years) for various reasons from me working on myself to getting trapped in the house with my parents because of a pandemic, but my view didn't get nearly as distorted. I don't know how much more of your life you would have to spend under a rock to end up with this kind of thinking. Yeah that makes sense. Sometimes I want to avoid this section entirely but at the same time I do have a motivation to correct misconceptions as well because of the implications they can have. Women are visual and we care about looks as much as men do but the thing is that we don't write off a man's entire value based on looks and dehumanize them in that way. Also with Bieber, a lot of people recently (like in the past couple years) have been becoming less attracted to him because he devolved in the way he carries himself (probably the drugs tbh). I remember one time I got on twitter and people were dragging him and saying that he was cute before and now he looks like the creepy guy you see in a trailer park. 2017 vs 2020 That makes sense. I caught myself falling into the same trap. Guess it manifests differently in different people and can come out in more blatant ways. I relate to this. I personally have a type that a lot of women/ society would consider ugly and I catch myself wanting to justify it even though my friends don't really care. It's a bad feeling when you show your friends a picture of a guy you like and they just reply with "well..... as long as you're happy I guess" and then you're tempted to be like "ok that's just a bad picture of him, I promise he looks better in person." lmao. I think when you're young, man or woman, you're fed with a certain ideal of attractiveness because you have limited exposure but as you get older and see what kind of guys are out there, you own personal palette starts forming. That's not to say attraction isn't still affected by society's ideals but it's like you develop your individual tastes as well. That's why imo a lot of incelly guys tend to focus on whether a girl is a ten by like modeling standards instead of trying to figure out what they like, having a broad diverse view of beauty, and gain appreciation for something outside of society's ideal. It's due to their own lack of exposure.

Sometimes I feel shame around waiting or that I'm asking for too much to take it slow physically, as if it makes me naive and childish to wait. I have reasons why I want to wait that are completely secular and that have to do with my physical and emotional needs. I know that I should honor those needs and that my boundaries are supposed to keep me safe inside rather than impress people on the outside. But sometimes I have my insecurities creep up and I can't help but think that there is something wrong with me for not wanting to engage in casual sex (I don't think it's healthy for me personally but I don't judge people who do have sex casually) or that I drive people away because of this need. Also, as I get older, there is a part of me that feels like I'm weird because I decided to wait. This seems rather silly and I know that probably I know better but I also just want to express myself so that I can just get this off my chest.

The vast majority of his videos have nothing to do with relationships. There is a few videos that I can see are influenced by the pick up lens but that's like maybe 4 videos among the 400+ videos he made. On top of that, those videos are mostly anywhere from 4-7 years old.

You'd think that a forum that is based on consciousness and self development would attract more high quality guys who are interested in those things. Yet there are things on this forum that I have read that aren't things that I encounter guys irl preach. In some ways, it's like the average guy has more sense than the average guy on this forum. I sometimes wonder why there are so many insecure men on this forum? But at the same time you don't see as many insecure women. It's a genuine question I have from my observations.

It's a shame that women tend to be judged more on something as static as beauty. It literally doesn't have to be that way. That isn't inherent to how people are wired, it's how society is run and how people are socialized. Low value people buy into that socialization and call it biology to make it seem absolute. But truth is that a woman's looks doesn't determine her dating successes. Sure an attractive woman may get more approaches but what is a larger factor as to how successful that whole thing would be is how she carries herself regardless of looks. There are beautiful women who get treated like trash by low value men and average-below average looking girls who get success in dating. Because on some level, man or woman, we treat others how to treat us based on how we assert ourselves and advocate for ourselves especially in the long run. That's why developing into a high value woman and working on your character is important. Women aren't exempt from having to work on themselves nor is their value static unless the only reason a woman is valuable to you is based on how she looks.

It depends on what your body composition/ body fat percentage is. There are people who are considered overweight by the bmi standards but are muscular so it isnt an actual problem. There are also people who are considered skinny fat where they may look slim and might have an average bmi but they have high body fat because they dont eat healthy. Being skinny fat is worse for your health compared to being overweight because you're muscular.

@Etherial Cat Thank you. I think I needed someone to knock some sense into me lol. I think it will serve me better to be patient in the long run.

Are things like shame, guilt, fear, insecurity, doing various types of shadow work, dealing with limiting beliefs etc. things that you slowly chip away at over time as they bubble up or do you need dig through your psyche to deal with them all at once? Do you ever finish dealing with these things? Sometimes self development feels like peeling off layers of an endless onion.

Yes but society isn't a monolith. A lot of your views on society are influenced by who you're around and what kind of information you take in. That amount of personal control means that your view on society gets filtered through your own biases depending on what you choose to take in (which is also influenced by your development). There is a part of society that does put a large weight on more superficial things like looks, money, and status for both genders but that doesn't mean that you need to confine your views of how the each gender has it or how they function to that particular sect. It depends who you are around. If you surround yourself with people who don't value a person's soul, that's on you. But there isn't a shortage of women or men who are like that. You just need to know where to look. And that can be difficult for both genders, I've been there. But as a high value man or woman, you have to understand that a lot of people just aren't on your level and as a result you aren't going to attract everyone. That doesn't mean that you stoop down to their chimpery and accept that as truth. And if a woman falls for assholes easily, that's usually not the type of woman you want to be around (if you're a high value man that is, but if you're a low value man you might see that as way to manipulate those woman and see those low value men who pull cheap tricks as something to aspire to) because there will be a lot of insecurities that you will have to deal with so it's not up to you to appeal to women like that by stooping down. Build your confidence, have standards, have a life, that's all important not even in dating but for the quality of your life. But in doing so, you don't have to also engage in chasing status, money, looks etc. in the process and that goes for both genders. I mean you can if you want to if that's where you're at but again, society and the people in society aren't some monolith. Lets be real, there are PLEANTY of people on this forum that wouldn't consider things like inner beauty as high value on this forum. It all depends on where you look in society and what kind of people you're around. The perspective you're presenting is very relative to that. And I would examine your view that inner beauty and being high value doesn't get you rewards in society. It certainly does but that is dependent on what your view of rewards is.

I want to. But then again, I wonder if it's wise to run full steam ahead towards that goal, take my time with that goal, or do something in the middle where I work on myself a lot in certain bursts and then move into periods where let myself take a more relaxed approach. Letting go of my limiting beliefs, grief, insecurities etc. is the goal, but the question is how to get there. That makes sense. Thank you. So basically, take things slow to avoid backlashes and trauma to make the process more smooth. Have a slow, consistent form of momentum to create the self improvement discipline.

@Karmadhi So what you're saying is that to be high value as a man you need to work on your character while to be high value as a woman you need to work on your looks? Basically you're saying that men are valued for their souls while women are valued for their status as an object. Isn't your misogyny blinding smh. From my experience, as a woman you do need to work on your character to be high value. That means having standards, having ambitions, passions, hobbies, a personality, clear sense of purpose, a inclination towards developing as a person etc. Basically the same things men need to work on as well in order to be high value. The types of men you attract when you lead with these things tend to be VERY different than the types of men you attract with looks alone. I think in dating, you tend to attract people on your level and what you lead with. So if you are a man who bases his worth on status and money and therefore leads with that energy, he will attract women who are attracted to that energy and value those things. If you lead with superficiality, you will attract superficiality. If you are a man who leads with an authentic sense of ambition that isn't rooted in chimpery, you will attract women who are similar to that. From what I noticed with high value women is that even if they are just as beautiful as a low value woman (I'm talking about character here), the high value woman tends to have less options but has better options (quality over quantity) because a lot of men aren't willing to develop themselves to the level to reach her standards. There is an air of intimidation that comes with a high value woman without her even trying mainly because men aint shit. From personal experience, I've had guys ask me something simple as what I'm studying and when I answer they get all wide eyed and uncomfortable. I don't have a problem with dating a guy who isn't as high achieving as I am but when it comes to the point where his confidence falters and he is uncomfortable with what I'm doing, that tells me he is emotionally a weak man and I'm not interested in the type of guy who would be intimidated by me. That insecurity can breed a lot of dysfunction and resentment in a relationship and I simply don't have the time or energy for that. Low value women on the other hand tend to be very easy to manipulate because of many reasons: Having a lot of weak points in her psyche because she never worked on herself: That makes it easy for men to find her pressure points and press on them. If she's insecure about her looks for example, it could be as easy as you telling a woman she's beautiful and hyping her up a little to get her to do whatever you want (this can also be applied to men who are insecure about something for example their age or financial status, plenty of toxic women use those insecurities to get what they want out of men) Having very superficial standards: It's easy to buy a low value woman with gifts so you can get her to do whatever you want while a high value woman can only be bought with character. (Can also apply to men. There are guys who you can simply stroke their ego a little bit when it comes to what they do for work and they'll do anything you want) Having no standards: You can treat a low value woman like trash and still have her begging to be with you because her self esteem is that low (pick me energy). A high value woman will see the red flag, know her worth, and leave. (applies to men as well because pick me girls and nice guys are basically the same thing and reek the same insecure energy) Not having a solid foundation: A lack of ambitions, passions, and a clear sense of purpose can cause women to be ungrounded so she will be more willing to waste her time with another low value man who doesn't bring much to the table This ability to be easily manipulated by men attracts other low value men to her like flies to honey. A high value man wouldn't want a woman who hasn't worked on herself, who has superficial or no standards, and who doesn't have a purpose or ambitions because a high value man wants a woman for more than what she looks like. A high value man wants a solid addition to his life. A low value man wants arm candy. And the fact that you @Karmadhi have this perception that in order to be high value a woman needs to look good and that's it tells me that you aren't very high value. And if you think that being nice and caring doesn't make someone high value because you didn't get results by being nice and caring, you're probably not as nice or caring as you think you are or you have a very narrow sense of being nice and caring that usually involves bending over backwards for someone. Often times "nice guys" or "nice girls" don't have standards or a back bone which is why they get walked over, treated like trash, and don't have the confidence to attract people they are interested in. Not having standards or boundaries =/= being nice and caring.

So what I'm getting at is that it depends on what phase you are at you life whether you are in a place where you have A LOT of deep cleaning up to do in your psyche or you're at a place where you need to do maintenance to pick up after yourself and your life experiences. I guess deep cleaning is more of a phase so you don't end up digging up endless things or unnecessarily picking at wounds. Then you need to take on a higher perspective once you're done with dealing with things at a certain level of consciousness while also balancing other areas of life in order to explore the experience. Yeah I struggle with this too. I'm not the best at giving myself a break tbh.

@OceanRiver I'm trying to figure out whether or not what I'm trying to do is socially conditioned and I'm just deceiving myself into thinking those are my needs or if is actually authentic to me.

But I already know this. I'm not even attracted to bad boys or players because I saw through their games pretty early on. If anything, I'm repulsed by them. I'm all for having a "hoe phase" and exploring my sexuality, but I want to do that with someone that I care about and trust. It doesn't have to be a long term relationship, personally I want more of a committed fling/ short term committed relationship since I don't feel ready for a long term relationship but I still want to explore. The thing is that I want to explore with the right person. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok this is just me venting at this point but sometimes I wonder if all of my needs and desires, including wanting to be in a committed relationship before having sex, is some type of dumb survival game that I need to transcend and get over in order to mature and actualize. I know having my boundaries are important but I have this voice in my head that says "stop being selfish and closed off and go and do things out side of your comfort zone. It's all survival and all survival is selfish, evil, and false, get over yourself." I'm really hesitant to listen to this voice because it doesn't sound reasonable and could yield to negative consequences because it's pushing me to do things that I don't want to and I'm not ready for. I think I've been on here for too long and that I'm misconstruing teachings and internalizing them in an unhealthy way because I'm not ready for some teachings as far as my self development goes .