soos_mite_ah

@Preety_India It comes from the ye ol days when women were seen as the property of their husbands and fathers because men had so much authority over women to where they dictated all of her personal decisions. They were seen as a maid who would pop out children and that's it. Forget her personal goals, desire for education, agency of her sexuality, financial autonomy, emotions, or anything that would make her an independent person with rights. Seeing people as property opens the door of all type of human rights violation ranging from sexism, slavery, and worker exploitation. You use people as tools for your selfishness without looking at what their agenda might be. It's easy to use, beat up, and discard an object because an object isn't sentient. It's difficult to do that to someone you see as similar to you. When you identify as something or identify with someone, hurting them becomes a moral dilemma because it also hurts you because your ego picks up on the lack of love. To expand your consciousness, you need to expand your sense of self to include all of consciousness instead of the sliver your carved out for yourself that only includes your race, your family, your gender, your sexual orientation etc. Seeing people as property makes people more ruthless because they see objects as something they can't possibly identify with.

The Limits of Science I know that there are already a couple videos up talking about the limits of science as it is practiced today. While many of the points are valid, I feel like for most people, watching those videos is like going from pre algebra to calculus real quick. I have my critiques of science and while it isn't I guess the highest critique of science, I guess it's closer to the collective understanding of science to where the critiques don't seem too outlandish. Instead of going from pre algebra to calculus, think of this as going from pre algebra to algebra. First, we have the god damn skulls The way experiments are conducted and the way results are interpreted are not separate from our social landscape and politics. The best example that articulates this is the pseudoscience that was conducted in the past to justify eugenics and racial differences. This was used to justify the notion that people of color were inherently savages, inherently stupid, and inherently inferior compared to white men. People nowadays know that this is pseudoscience based on the biases on the time and how the experiments were conducted. We know now that the way the experiments were conducted and the conclusions the scientists came to weren't doing anything more than doubling down on their current world view at the It seems very obvious now. But back then, the men who came up with such theories thought they were doing real science. Things like racism were such an integral part of life back in the 1800s and early 1900s to where even the most educated had their perspectives clouded by it. Here are a couple sources that go into what I said above in more detail: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/column-the-false-racist-theory-of-eugenics-once-ruled-science-lets-never-let-that-happen-again https://pages.vassar.edu/realarchaeology/2017/03/05/phrenology-and-scientific-racism-in-the-19th-century/ There was another series of experiments studying the health of black people compared to white people during this time period. The results that came from these studies concluded that black people were more likely to suffer from a variety of diseases and live shorter lives compared to white people. While the study itself wasn't flawed and the results were correct, the interpretation was off. Back then, this conclusion was interpreted as definitive proof that black people were genetically inferior. Now, the interpretation is that black people have worse health outcomes due to factors that contribute to systemic racism that include but aren't limited to, limited access to health care, health care providers being less likely to take the health of black people seriously, and the stress of racism and the tragedies weighing on them emotionally to where it impacts their physical health. In other words, it's not that the race that impacts their health, it's the racism. We now also have the field of epigenetics. Basically epigenetics in a nutshell talks about how the external environment impacts people's physical health which then over time puts a strain on genes and even alter them. One of the most well known studies on epigenetics involve the lasting physical health implications of those who are decedents of Holocaust survivors. The Jewish people who went through the Holocaust went through incredible amounts of mental, emotional, and physical torture to where even if they survived, the memories aren't only stored as trauma psychologically, but the body also keeps score by altering genes. Those altered genes are then passed on to the next generation making them more prone to certain diseases, especially anxiety and panic disorders. While this could be dismissed as generational trauma due to socialization, even when Jewish children are adopted by non-Jewish parents, they are still more likely to develop those diseases. There was also another study conducted that involved in the rates of birth defects in the Arab American community. There was a spike in the number of birth defects per 1000 births right after 9/11. It is likely that the events of 9/11 caused a significant amount of stress for women who were pregnant at the time which raised the likelihood of a difficult birth and birth defects for the baby. Here are more sources on epigenetics: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24029109/ https://forward.com/culture/318509/is-jewish-anxiety-no-laughing-matter/ Who's to say that the social, political, methodological, and capitalistic self interest biases today dont impact the way science is conducted? Science was biased before in history so who's to say it still isn't biased now in different ways with our current paradigms. I'm sure it would be obvious a couple hundred years from now but right now, it isn't obvious to us at all. You might as well ask a fish what is water. Next we have food, Science isn't great at studying the mechanisms of multiple variables at once. Much of science is dependent on isolating a variable and studying that or else there is risk of fudging the results and misattributing factors in causal relationships. However, the problem is that the natural world doesn't isolate variables in that way. The natural world and the way it works is much messier than a contained lab environment. It's a case of the map (the lab controlled results) not being the same as the territory (the way things work in the natural world). The thing that made me realize this is the way that nutritional science can be a difficult field. When it comes to food and they way people's genetics are different, there are many variables that need to be accounted for, And sometimes, isolating variables can mess up results. That often contridicts the way most science is conducted where variables are isolated in order to determine a causal relationship. For example, there is a notion in diet culture that fruit makes you fat because it has sugar. The study that was conducted isolated fructose from fruits and it compared fructose to the way regular sugar, sucrose, reacts. The test results came out with the conclusion that the body metabolizes both fructose and sucrose in the same way. In fact, the body can't tell the difference. It's well known that excess sugar messes with blood sugar levels and this causes things like weight gain. So next you know, you have a bunch of people talking about how fruit makes you fat and how fruit is basically the same as candy. But this isn't the whole story. What separates fruit from candy is that in addition to the sugar (fructose) that is in fruits, fruits also have fiber. So, even though there is no differentiation between fructose and sugar, when you add fiber into the equation, the body metabolizes it differently. The fiber in fruits counteracts the blood sugar spike that something like fructose by itself could cause. If anything, the fiber along with the additional vitamins that are in fruits help blood sugar levels and have an overall positive effect for the human body. Comparing fruits to candy is a conjecture. Here are a couple videos that go into this more in depth: Isolating variables is very much necessary in some experiments but in others they are counterproductive. Isolating variables to determine a causal relationship is a very linear way of looking at science. However, multiple variables, though they can be messy, if it's managed in the right way can give a more holistic way at looking at science. The later way of doing science studies variables as one with an interconnected system rather than taking it to the side and studying it independently. The later way is more in alignment with oneness. I found these videos on Leo's blog when he was talking about linear binary logic to nonlinear vision logic. I think it can also be a metaphor for taking one variable into account at a time vs studying many variables at once. This type of multivariable thinking I suppose is more difficult for the hard sciences to implement. As someone who had to conduct studies in the social sciences, I can tell you that systemically, multivariable thinking is easier to implement when it comes to things like sociological observation, participant observation, and conducting surveys with people. In these fields, personally I found the importance of being aware of self bias since that can impact what you see and the way you see it when it comes to observation. I think more of that needs to be taken into consideration in other fields of study as well. And now, I'm going to end with capitalism What studies are conducted are dependent on the constrains of what society deems valuable in the moment. This I realized after talking to one of my friends about if we could study or research anything, what would we be studying. My friend was talking about how she would look into human sexuality more along with studying paranormal activity. Then we started laughing because we were like "imagine what kind of case we would have to make and what kind of hoops we would have to jump over in order to get grant money for those kinds of studies." We would look insane. This was a light hearted conversation of how we have niche interests and how to articulate them to normies but after the conversation I couldn't help but wonder. How many things do we not study because society doesn't see it as valuable? How much knowledge goes undiscovered simply because it doesn't serve the self agenda of the larger system? In my opinion, the best way to do research and science is to fuck around and find out without having some type of agenda. Putting too many constraints on what you can study can stop people from making new discoveries even thought those constraints are there to protect against wasting time and getting into dead ends. But wasting time is inevitable, even if you do have constraints. Also, if we prioritize profits and funding when it comes to what we research, it is very possible that monetary gain can mess with the methodology or results of a study because that degree of self interest and self preservation can yield to propagating misinformation due to wanting to appeal to the people funding the research. I wouldn't be surprised that the reason why we don't look into Eastern or natural plant medicine is because it isn't profitable for pharmaceutical companies and because there is a western bias where we don't see the validity of anything outside of the European rationalist paradigm. There is a tendency to view Eastern and indigenous wisdom as irrational or invalid because the west as an epistemological bias where they see the traditions and the ways of knowing of other cultures as less than. The system has its biases. The ones that stick out to me the most is the patriarchy and capitalism. I have personal experience when it comes to research bias against women. A few months back I was diagnosed with PCOS which is a disorder that only effects women. It isn't rare or new but it is something that doctors aren't really familiar with treating. No one knows what causes PCOS and treating PCOS is basically a trial and error game that the patient has to do themselves. Women's health issues in general doesn't get as much research money and therefore isn't well researched. Another example of this is how women typically display different symptoms in the even of a stroke. But most people don't know and instead most people are only familiar with the symptoms that men display in a stroke. This can cause people to overlook strokes in women. Finally, women are more likely to deal with side effects for vaccines. This can especially seen with the COVID vaccine where women tend to fall ill right afterwards in higher rates compared to men. This is because most test trials test on men over women therefore vaccines often take the male biology into account more. The reason for this research bias is this sociological concept that is along the lines of whatever group is dominant in society, that's the group that is normalized and seen as the default. In society, men have more power than women. In research men's issues are prioritized while women's issues are dismissed. In test trials, men's bodies are seen as the default while women's bodies are seen as the anomaly because of things like hormones. To me that's ridiculous because how can half of the world's population be seen as an anatomical anomaly? The only answer is self bias. Self bias is inevitable when what studies are conducted are dependent on the constrains of what society deems valuable in the moment. How we define what is valuable and worthwhile is relative to the time and place. And currently we live in a time an place where materialism, men, capitalism, and whiteness are prioritized over truth, discovery, and exploration. I really liked this quote from this article that talks about why women are more likely to have side effects from the COVID vaccine: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/04/10/covid-vaccine-women-report-more-side-effects-than-men-heres-why/7139366002/

@Raptorsin7 sounds like what someone who needs self love and who needs to connect with their emotions would say

I love this idea. I know I said that in the other thread but I wanted to include that sentiment of support here as well.

I noticed something that many wise people have in common is that they mind their own business. That can manifest in different ways such as not gossiping, investing in self education, working on yourself, honing in on your craft instead of competing, avoiding drama etc. As a result, some of these people may be loners or have a loner phase but many still chill in society and try to stay mindful of the influences around them whether it be in the form of the people in their lives or the media they consume.

I REALLY love this idea. Sometimes the best way to handle a situation isn't to go out find a bunch of techniques and gain success in changing yourself so you aren't a devil or fool anymore, but it's to find a place of acceptance, self love, gentleness, and forgiveness within yourself. I think the later needs to be emphasized more here. I feel that this would also help balance things out by encouraging more I guess feminine forms of self help since the energy in this forum tends to skew pretty heavily masculine.

I found your video incredibly insightful and something that really resonated with me. Tbh it perfectly reflected a lot of the skepticisms I had with what I saw being discussed both the actualized.org forum and youtube channel. It felt like a breath of fresh air and an affirmation that I wasn't crazy in the things that I saw and thought were red flags.

I agree, No one said that Leo or Actualized.org came up with the teachings out of thin air. But there is responsibility on how those teachings are presented and who they are aimed towards. I have seen all of the videos that you mentioned on the bottom of you comment. My main thing is that YouTube Leo and forum Leo are different. Leo on YouTube is much more polished and detailed in his delivery but on the forum he sometimes uses platitudes flippantly which can be dangerous. There are also times where he contradicts himself when it comes to the topic of death. That can muddy the waters. I agree. Much of his teachings are helpful. But that doesn't meant that there isn't a huge possibility of taking things the wrong way and using those teachings to harm ones self and others. He talks about this in his most recent video. I agree, this place isn't a cult. But there are fanboys that take things too far and simply parrot whatever Leo says despite Leo telling them to find things out through their direct experience by looking at the material for themselves and spending time by contemplating and studying the subject in question. The behavior of the fanboys isn't Leo's fault by any means but it's important to look at how the collective ego behaves and teach things that meet the people where they're at. I didn't see Adeptus misrepresent anything. He never said that actualized.org was a cult. If anything he said the opposite. He mainly was saying that we shouldn't put Leo on a pedestal. I agree, spirituality isn't designed for people with mental illness who need basic help. But the way he teaches things can look like he is advocating for something even if that wasn't his intention. I agree, that is possible and Leo can't help or give resources for everyone to avoid this. But he can be mindful of the pitfalls his deepest teachings have and make them available only for those he deems ready or leave it out of YouTube entirely since there is no way to mange the thousands of people who come across his videos. I don't think this forum could have known what was going on with Sunny. In that way we are innocent. But it's important to look at the teachings and how they are presented because clearly that played a role in the worldview that caused the recent events. Also, blaming someone versus showing ways to take responsibility are very different things. We can take responsibility without wallowing in shame. If anything, wallowing in shame isn't going to be taking responsibility. All I'm saying is that there are things that we can do and be mindful on so that this instance doesn't happen again. I agree, Sunny is responsible for his actions. But the forum had an impact on the way that he saw the world which led to this decision. We need to acknowledge that if we want to move forward. We all have a role that we are playing in this situation. I'm not blaming or shaming Leo. But I will say that with his influence, it's up to him to take proper safeguards from here on out and learn from this situation. When I say he or anyone is responsible for something, I mean that they have the ability to respond constructively in the present moment. Taking proper action looks different in different circumstances. Leo has a lot of power and influence on this forum, therefore he has a huge ability to respond in a way that uplifts the community. In my opinion, given the thread Leo started and the video he let out, he is taking responsibility for this situation. Is it perfect, in my opinion no. But is he doing something about it and is that something to acknowledge, absolutely.

Dealing with My Spiritual Ego: The Dangers of the Spiritual Ego and Why People Should Be Careful Some. of. yall. bout. to. be. real. mad. at. me. but. it. must. be. said. While I do get a lot of value out of spirituality and Actualized.org, there are things that I'm very hesitant and even skeptical about. This might look like me turning on this community or not aligning with the main values of this place but I honestly don't care. The two main things that I'm really hesitant about involve the dating advice here, especially for guys who can't get laid, and the enlightenment related things there. I'm not going to talk about the first one because I already wrote about that but I am going to focus on the second one. I suppose that I'm far from having any concerns about enlightenment and transcendence. I think I'm at a place where integration and building a solid foundation to build my life on in order to ground me is much more important. I think getting on the path to enlightenment prematurely can be incredibly dangerous without proper integration. Maybe I'll get to a point where I'll care more about existential and absolute truths years down the road or maybe I won't I don't know. But I know that if I ever get on that path, I want to be able to have some type of framework and some solid foundation because diving in head first without preparation is irresponsible for me and the people around me. There are some methods of getting there that I don't particularly agree with (if you do agree with it idc, no judgement I don't know what's best for everyone) and those include things like psychedelics, fasting, and isolating yourself from your loved ones and abandoning your hobbies and interests because all of your attention should be towards enlightenment. I feel that those things are rather extreme and are things that are definitely not for the vast majority of people. Also, I'm hesitant with drugs in general. I don't care if other people uses them granted they are doing so safely, responsibly, and legally but it's not for me especially when that advice is coming from a talking head on the internet. Upon recent events, this video by Adeptus Psychonautica came out. Some people are triggered because they think it makes actualized.org look bad but I think it's incredibly beneficial for people from the outside critiquing actualized.org because being super insular usually doesn't end well for a variety of reasons whether it be because of self bias all the way to cult like tendencies. I guess I'm not particularly attached to actualized.org and spirituality in general so when people critique these things, I don't feel particularly triggered because to me it's simply a source. I think it can be easy for people to get attached to some sources and some teachers because of the benefits that one gets from their content because it does have to do with those people's survival emotionally and psychologically. Especially if you get help in a vulnerable place and even if you get out of that vulnerable place, there is an attachment that forms, almost like a baby blanket after you grow up imo. I've had something like this come up for me once personally and even though I've never got to the point of needing to defend that source I got value from, it does sting because part of you identifies with the source and teachings therefore when someone critiques that source or teaching, it's like they're critiquing you. I went ahead and watched Adeptus's livestream and I feel like most of it was valid despite what other people may think on here. At no point did I feel that there was slander or that Actualized.org was being dragged through the mud. There are also points where Adeptus talks about the positives of the way Leo is handling different issues such as the phone call he had with Connor Murphey and one of the posts he made on the thread discussing recent events( Around 1:08:00-1:17:00). They talked about how Leo or any of the mods are trying to do anything malicious or create a cult but sometimes it seems like there is one forming around Leo anyway (basically collective ego). Overall, @AdeptusPsychonautica, I loved this video and I think It's important to contemplate on the darker aspects of spirituality and self improvement rather than idealizing it. Here are somethings that I found were really valuable that I want to include in my journal.: Around the 15 minute mark: Mackenzie talks about how these teachings aren't things that were made up by the community rather they are things that were taught by ancient teachers and how back then there were teachers who had communities but since it was in person, the teacher can gage were the students are at and how much they can handle. However, this aspect gets lost when its all on YouTube and on a forum when anyone regardless of how stable they are can access it. There aren't checks and balances. I think this is a very valid critique. It's not so much a direct attack on actualized.org but it's talking about how systemically there are problems and shortcomings. At the 20-24 minute mark, I can see why some people in this community can get triggered. They are critiquing how a lot of the followers think that they are a finished product and they are so enlightened and they egg each other on in order to keep up with the master and meanwhile the master is here talking about "i've gone deeper, I've become more awakened, I encountered a new level of awakening, you can't understand where I've been." And this challenges people to do more and more and more to where it can become compulsive especially because Leo talks in these absolute terms. Adeptus talks about how this might be Leo's personal truth and how he isn't saying Leo is lying or anything like that but it's the way he goes about it. This is honestly part of the reason why I avoid parts of this forum. I personally found that this type of thing doesn't help me and how this type of thing can become very compulsive, especially when it comes to Leo's fanboys. Around the 31 minute mark: If truth realization is not your Moby Dick to where you want to sacrifice everything, go for human adulthood meaning the integration of your spiritual, emotional, relational, physical self to be your most mature self. If you don't want to sacrifice everything, point your hunger toward integration and self actualization. Then in the 37 minute mark, Mackenzie talks about her experiences with nonduality how she felt all the love and light in the moment but then she came back down to just being human again and still having all of her problems that she had before the experience and how that can be discouraging and therefore cause people to go on these endless seeking journeys. I feel like this is where I'm at with my views on spirituality and self realization. I do care more about integration and building a fulfilling life than simply transcending everything and joining the void. Because based on some of the interactions I've had on this forum, teachers that I have learned about in history, and interacting with Leo himself is that even if they get an enlightenment experience, there is still plenty of human shit and blind spots you'll still have. And I think to go towards actualization is to deal with that in a slow consistent way rather than dealing with nonduality and transcendence. Around the 40 minute mark: Mackenzie talks about cleaning up her nihilism she encountered from spirituality and how she started building meaning in the form of close relationships, books, etc. to slowly start rebuilding her ego to care about existing. And then she realized that that was the process that she wanted all along and because she grew up in the shadow of new age culture where ego death, nonduality, mysticism, love and light are more a part of the conversation than anything, she thought that was the way to fix herself. But for her it was more along the lines of deep psychological work, embodiment, and healing that she realized she wanted more of a complete human experience instead of transcending the human experience because that was the thing sold to her as a way to deal with being here. In order to deal with being here, you don't have to leave. You just have to be present and accept the present moment instead of constantly feeling like you have to do more and more to reach a higher and higher state of consciousness in order to be at peace with the present moment. In spiritual communities its like there is always some place else to get to. It goes back to the 27 minute mark where Mackenzie talks about how there are two levels. There is truth realization and done. Once you reach done, that's it there is no more self discovery of lets go see what else I can find. Once you're enlightened, the seeker disappears so if you're seeking more experiences, you're still seeking which can get compulsive. I love this section. While I never became nihilistic, I've had a point where I got really attached to detaching. I journaled about this before and how it relates to my relationship to actualized.org. Basically it wasn't cute. I had a friend who was like "I don't think you even know who you are anymore" because I got caught in this cycle of even detaching from the healthier forms of my ego like my personality, my hobbies and interests etc. It wasn't this enlightenment thing that people often talk about here. And from then on I took a step back from spirituality and self help in order to be more gentle with myself so I can build myself back up again. This was the post I was talking about and here is the part that I think is most applicable to this post: Around the 47 minute mark: I also like how they discuss how people turn spiral dynamics is another dick measuring contest lol. Also Adeptus talks about how it's not about the model itself rather it's about how people use it to judge others and turn it into a dogma. Then Mackenzie talks about how it's important ot just see it as a model rather than THE TRUTH that explains and solves everything because that can be the indication that this is probably a defensive ego mechanism. Reminds me of something I wrote elsewhere in this journal: Around the 1 hour 3 minute mark: Mackenzie talks about how some teachings are vague or are gatekept because the highest teachings can be dangerous. Vague teachings will only make sense when people ponder it for a while and then when the reach a certain place in their journey it will make sense. And that bread crumbing your way to truth is part of a gradual process of direct experience where you figure it out on your own, therefore if something goes wrong, you can still back track. However with psychedelics, you're kind of thrown into the truth and then you may or may not be able or ready to deal with it which can be dangerous if someone doesn't have proper integration. Granted I've never experimented with psychedelics and I don't plan to any time soon, but I do 100% agree with the need for proper integration and the importance of pacing yourself in the journey to find truth. It reminds me of Leo's video on ego backlash where if there is a sudden change, even if it's for the better it can lead to a huge backlash because individually and collectively we want to aim towards homeostasis rather than growth because homeostasis feels safe while growth is a leap into the unknown. And these backlashes, even though they may look like a step back after taking a step forward, are important so that you don't do too much too soon and throw everything off and cause chaos while aiming for growth. The bigger the growth, the bigger the backlash. To me that's important to take into consideration because to me that means taking on too much too soon can yield to a huge backlash which can be pretty detrimental. And to me, it means that it's important to take your time on the journey and pace yourself so that you don't have a backlash that is so devastating that it takes away all of your progress. It simply isn't sustainable. That's something I also learned this year as I've been trying to take a more gentle, slow approach to discipline rather than a rigorous strict way to discipline. It goes back to that feeling of always wanting to get somewhere rather than appreciating where you are now. The spiritual ego wants to be enlightened as soon as possible and if it means taking a shit ton of LSD or 5meo, it will take that route over a slower and more sustainable way like through meditation, self-inquiry, and working on yourself in general. I don't think there is anything wrong with those substances and that there is a time and place for them but when you have a spiritual ego that wants to get more and more enlightenment experiences that last longer and longer and go deeper and deeper, I can see how that can turn very dysfunctional to where someone might contemplate on ending their life so that they are in that state of bliss forever. 1:21:00: "What are things about yourself that you are trying to avoid by transcending that? That's where to start. What are you trying to transcend, why are you so fucking eager to transcend it." I just really like this part. I think a lot of people need to contemplate this tbh and I think this is a good quote to end this post at.

I'd say her work is geared towards a integrative approach where people are trying to integrate parts of themselves through things like shadow work rather than a transcendent approach where you're trying to transcend parts of you. Personally, I got a lot of benefit from this. Integrating the ego and making it whole makes it safer for transcendence because transcending things prematurely can lead to things like creating shadows of repression, which wouldn't be helpful in the path and can lead to a lot of dysfunction.

I'm with @Etherial Cat. I really value your contribution to this forum. I also feel a lack of empathy and proper grounding in parts of the forum. It's part of the reason why I don't go to some parts of the forum tbh. Nowadays, I mainly try to stay in my own lane in my own journals. I glossed over the threads about recent events but after reading some comments, I didn't feel comfortable with really going into it. I just said my piece and went my way. The whole thing was heart breaking and overwhelming. Not to bring spiral dynamic into this but sometimes I feel that people are so focused on stage yellow and turquoise that they don't properly integrate green and that some people who claim to be yellow don't have the best foundation of integration because they are so concerned with getting towards the highest stages as soon as possible.

I second this. I think clearing up issues with absolute truth and relative truth is an important step in making this type of work safer for people who are just getting into it. I have seen people use the absolute perspective in situations where it isn't appropriate nor constructive. I do remember there being threads and posts of people talking about how rape isn't evil. In a philosophical discussion one can make the argument that evil is a label we project on to things to ensure we keep ourselves safe, but when you use that same statement in the context of dating advice or something of that sort, it can be incredibly damaging and gaslighting for people who have dealt with things such as rape or any other form of sexual harassment. Additionally, differentiating between absolute and relative truth and knowing where to apply it is important given the context of the situation. Blanketing over an issue with platitudes of absolute truth can result in things like false equivalency which can also lead to things like zen devilry. I'll use survival as an example. In the absolute sense everything is survival but in the relative sense there are different ways to go about it ranging from healthy and conscious to dysfunctional and unconscious. While the absolute truth that everything is survival isn't false or misleading, it can mesh together healthy forms of survival and unhealthy forms of survival resulting in the false equivalency problem. Some people can look at that without knowing how to differentiate when to implement relative and absolute truths and be feel justified in dysfunctional practices. Same with things like nonduality. While I have limited experience and knowledge regarding this subject and I'm still on the journey of figuring things out on my own, I do believe that for concepts in nonduality, again, there is a time and place for it and it's important to be able to discern that especially when advice is given. This is a good place to go through a vetting process of sorts and try to determine where people are at based on the discussion they are having and meet those people where they're at. Like for instance if someone is in a toxic situation and they can't get out due to logistical issues, it's more important to empathize and validate that experience along with giving that person coping skills in the meantime instead of telling that person that this is a dream and is all in their head since that can do more harm than good. While I do see most users understanding this, sometimes I do encounter people getting so spiritual to where they forget how to behave like normal human beings. I think addressing the time and place to effectively use what we know on an absolute and relative level can work through much of these problems. That will clarify a lot of things that people misconstrue imo. Part of learning is being able to make distinctions and having accurate discernment.

@Ora I had to search up what candida is and yeah I doubt I have that lol. Don't have any of the symptoms except the sugar cravings

I don't have a habit of eating a lot of really sweet things. I never had the habit of eating dessert. But I always crave something sweet after a meal. It isn't overwhelming and I normally don't give into these cravings (mainly because I don't have anything super sweet in the house) but it is something that is rather annoying. So why does this happen and what can I do about it?

On Recent Events on the Forum (Trigger Warning: Suicide) So apparently someone on this forum committed suicide for spiritual reasons so they can experience a conscious death. This was really heartbreaking to read and part of me had no idea what to say because I'm not good at handling things regarding death. My heart does go out to the person's friends and family. But I did have somethings to say particularly on the dangers of spiritual work and how spiritual teachings can me misinterpreted in dangerous ways to harm oneself and others. I have encountered something similar in my journey when I tried to jump into transcendence prematurely. I felt the need to explain my critiques in the thread where people were talking about this because the dangers of spiritual work and how people talk about it I feel aren't addressed enough. There are a lot of potentially dangerous things on here from what I've observed tbh. I wasn't trying to blame or shame anyone. It's easy to just say that the person who committed suicide that it was their responsibility to interpret things in a constructive way. While that is true, I think as the community and as actualized.org is trying to go mainstream (based on the clips channel as well as making podcast rounds), it's important to look at what we can do in our end and have these difficult conversations on how far to take spirituality and where are the lines we need to draw when talking to other people about it, not out of shame or wanting to water down teachings but for the safety, wellbeing, and growth of the people and society around us. There is a reason why some teachers hold back advanced teachings. I know that all teachings can't be idiot proof but I think there are somethings we can still do to reduce situations like these. I can't say I know what those things are but having that conversation discussing these things is important. The thought of leaving people behind, especially little kids just hits really hard for me. I'm tearing up while writing this tbh. I've had issues with suicidal thoughts over the years so I understand to a certain extent. I've also a lot of people who were close to me and while I didn't lose anyone personally to suicide, a lot of those deaths were sudden, a couple of them were violent. Again, my heart goes out to the person's friends and family. I'm probably going to write about the issues I see on this forum. I was originally thinking about getting that out of my system in this journal for the last couple weeks but now I'm also thinking about posting that as a thread. I don't even know tbh.

No these things shouldn't be banned but having some more disclaimers and clarifications regarding how teachings can be misconstrued is very important. It's especially important in this circumstance because of how open/accessible YouTube and this forum is. While I do agree that no one is to blame here, you can't just excuse everyone from responsibility. Not analyzing teachings and the way they are presented as an important factor to consider causes people to take a hyper individualistic route that can easily cause things like this to repeat. Hyper individualism doesn't work to deal with problems like this. I can't say that I know much about what happened or what other factors were at play but I do know from my direct experience that you need to be very careful with what you say and how you say it so it doesn't harm others unintentionally when it comes to higher teachings. Sure Leo isn't to blame and shouldn't be shamed but saying he doesn't have some part of responsibility of how his words can impact the actions of others is incorrect. I agree, there are a lot of fanboys and people who are lost and looking for answers because they are in a painful place in their lives on here. Things like self development and spirituality can attract a lot of people like that and it's important to be mindful of that fact and act accordingly. I second this. Most people need integration rather than transcendence. Transcendence maybe the goal for some but the process of integration is vital so that we can sustain ourselves and turn our needs into shadows and have that blow up in our face in nasty ways.

I agree with much of this. There is a need for more responsibility and more disclaimers when it comes to more advanced teachings because they can VERY EASILY be misconstrued into very harmful ways. Most people aren't ready for advanced teachings and that isn't something that makes that person bad or less conscious. It just means you need to focus on the foundation first because without it, things can get very dark. I have had my own experiences with taking in too much advanced material too soon and having negative repercussions in my mental health. I had to step back and make the decision to not take in advanced material until much later and that has benefited me greatly. Also, sometimes spiritual teachings such as everything is a dream or just meditate on it to transcend the issue entirely can be gaslighting when you are going through difficult emotions. Because often times people in those situations need support instead of being told something along the lines of *your issues are all a result of your ego contemplate on that.* Whether or not that is true isn't as important as if this is going to help the person or hurt the person because that can have a huge impact on whether or not they even get to a higher level of consciousness. I also think that while it can be really good that this forum in general wants to reach the highest truths, I think we need to also see the merits of more basic personal development and not dismiss that as illusions. I made a thread on this forum a couple months back and I think it depicts the importance of being more responsible with the teachings on here (especially in the 2nd page):

This is really tragic. I'm so sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to Soonhei's friends and family

I think environment does play a huge role. I have experienced this as well in my college where most people are blue/orange and yeah if you show a hint of green a lot of people will side eye you or not want to get to know you. I have also experienced this with my family and I have this defense mechanism where I'm super hesitant to open up and discuss things with them. Nevertheless, I still found myself attracting the few orange/green people and green people who have the potential to go yellow that were in my environment. I guess due to my openness with that type of thinking, how I feel at ease with people from those stage therefore making it easier to be around them, and my subconscious beliefs making me naturally gravitate towards those kinds of people. Even though most people at my school probably wouldn't want to be around me if they knew my views, to me it's almost like the process of elimination tbh. I agree with this. I noticed that when people change around their environment and branch out more that they are more likely to develop themselves and move up stages. From my experiences a lot of young people tend to fall in this category since they haven't settled down and gone into stagnation. Granted, I already grew up in a fairly liberal environment where people tended to be orange/green and a lot of people in my area who went off to college came back as very green. Similarly in my family, I have cousins who started out at blue/orange but when they moved away from home and got exposed to the world and different ideas, they came back orange/green or simply green. I think this also depends on area and how often people move around and get exposed to new ideas. But I do agree that a lot of self growth happens horizontally within a stage. I know people here see moving up stages as the goal but I also think that horizonal growth is something that should be recognized more tbh. There can be a lot of growth from unhealthy orange to healthy orange or unhealthy green to healthy green which can go a long way when it comes to the state of you base line consciousness even if you are technically in the same stage. This might be my bias talking but I feel like even if you have the smallest smidge in you, you're more likely to be flexible and open with growth.

@Raphael Omfg I'm flattered thank you I'm so glad that you get something out of this journal I also really like your journal as well and I check up on it pretty regularly

Dealing with My Spiritual Ego : Moving Towards Balance and Integration Taking a couple steps back from really working on myself really helped me get some perspective as to where I'm at in this journey and where I need to go. Here are somethings that I realized were hang ups in me. Taking "Responsibility" for Everything: I think a lot of self-help people even if they aren't heavily in stage orange emphasize on how "you need to take charge," "you need to take action," "you need to take 100% responsibility at everything that is thrown at you." While I don't disagree with those statements, I think audience matters a lot. Sure, there are a lot of people who need that kick in the gut so that they get up off the couch and work on themselves and sure there are a lot of people who need that reminder of "hey stop playing victim and blaming others, see what you're doing to continue this circumstance." But I think for me personally I fall in the opposite spectrum where I tend to internalize things easily and feel this need to take a large amount of action even when something isn't my fault. I think I internalize a lot of things in order to feel a sense of personal power like *yeah I am in control of this situation, this is my doing, I can change it* which isn't a bad thing but sometimes it can be an overcompensation in the face where I don't have control. I know that different pieces of advice are good for different people. It comes down to knowing how to get to a balanced, integrated point from where you are now . I'll use the example of awkwardness. Sometimes I get myself into awkward interactions with people and sometimes it is their fault but instead of recognizing that, I have a tendency to point it back to myself since I have this thing drilled into me that says "don't blame others, take responsibility" and then I beat myself up for and blame myself for the awkward situation. I know that beating myself up and blaming myself isn't actual responsibility. Responsibility is your ability to respond. It's supposed to empower you while blame disempowers you and puts you in a victim mindset of sorts even if it is the case that you are blaming yourself. Shaming yourself is rarely the best way to respond. Sometimes recognizing that something isn't your fault or has any bearing on you is the best way to respond because you aren't internalizing the situation. But for me, I'm nervous about pointing the finger outwards to the people and the situation around me because I'm afraid of the self deception that may come with that judgement. Which brings me to the next point.... The Vast Majority of People are Unconscious: I sometimes get this vibe from Actualized.org videos of this notion that the vast majority people are deluded, dysfunctional, egoic, and just awful people because their consciousness isn't high enough and that includes you too because, hey, you can't point out there without pointing the finger back at yourself. I think there is some truth in this that we are deluded and egoic when you zoom out into the absolute perspective. But for me personally, it made me question and second guess everything I was thinking. While that itself isn't a bad thing, I did greatly benefit from this, but one set back for me was that I underestimated my own growth and I felt this need to hyper focus on some issues I had and make a mountain out of a mole hill. I did a whole post on why it's important to recognize your growth and I feel that it relates well to this section: This video relates to this as well: When it comes to this notion that the vast majority of people are unconscious, not only did it impact my relationship to myself causing me to be harsh and nitpicky with my flaws, but it also colored the way I interacted with others. I did talk about how I was uncomfortable with talking about spirituality and self development with people I knew because I was afraid that they wouldn't "get it." As a result of that along with the notion of how the vast majority of people are unconscious, I built up this scarcity mindset when it comes to who I thought I could really connect with. I think the dating and relationship section of this forum also made things worse because of the types of discussions that take place there. For a consciousness forum, I have found more conscious conversations about dating and relationships in real life. I know a lot of people, particularly men, here don't have the healthiest view on themselves and they assume that everyone is neurotic as they are. They assume that most attractive women are unconscious, they only care about looks because that's where their value lies, and that if you aren't rich, famous, successful, or have a square jaw that you're not going to get anyone's attention. And that's because their insecurities lie in their looks, their money, and their status so they hyper focus on that and also assume that everyone is judging them on the same criteria they judge themselves on. I think I greatly benefitted from getting out of that section of the forum and muting around 30 people. I already have some issues with this notion that good men are scarce and this section just picked at that wound because I felt like I was surrounded by insecure men and it was worse than what I would encounter irl. I know that I talked about dating quite a bit, but I think there is something that is to be said about friendship as well. There is this notion that the vast majority of people aren't looking to develop themselves. I think that ultimately comes down to who you end up surrounding yourself with. Personally, the vast majority of my friendships involved people who were trying to grow and develop as people in some way or another. At times we might have been in different places and stages of our growth and most of the time we didn't put this under the label of "self development" rather we were going through the motions and figuring things out about the world and ourselves but that doesn't mean that my friends weren't oriented around growth since growth can mean so many different things. I think that this notion that the vast majority of people are unconscious caused me to be judgmental with some people in my life and even if I never expressed those judgements, it mainly manifested as me keeping my distance. When in reality, I'm consistently surrounded myself with people who had integrity and cared about growth. Many people like that are out there. In my opinion as long as people are open to working through their problems and they maintain a healthy dynamic, I don't see why I should avoid a friendship or relationship with them. We're always going to be a work in progress and that's ok. Being Above Relationships: Every now and then I come across a thread that reads something along the lines of "are all relationships rooted in survival and selfishness? Is it all ego?" I don't think there is anything wrong per se about ego, survival, and selfishness since it exists in a spectrum but the way that these questions are phrased, there is a connotation of relationships being negative and that you need to transcend your needs. To a certain extent I agree. Sometimes your "needs" can manifest in an unhealthy way like manipulating someone or trying to escape your problems. We should all work towards being self sufficient and being whole in ourselves so we don't fall into things like codependency. But at the same time, I feel like there isn't enough talk about the benefits conscious relationships and how it can help people grow on here. I kind of get the vibe here that the vibe is to be this lone wolf monk that doesn't need/want anyone in their life. There isn't anything wrong with that but I don't think that's healthy for most people in the long run. Sure, it can be healthy for some to have a hermit phase. I know I had one and it came from an authentic and healthy place. But there was a small part of me that felt prideful that I could handle this type of thing when other people couldn't, like I was stronger and more developed because I could be by myself for a long period of time. I also have some dismissive-avoidant tendencies in my attachment style so I think that is also a factor to consider. And upon reflection, I think there was a lot of healing that I went through simply by admitting that I wanted the closeness of other people around me and that I value relationships, not because I had a hole to fill or because I felt lonely, but because I genuinely want to connect to others and build on that connection for the sake of it. Everything in Society is Chimpery and Ego: I do agree that there is a lot of things in society that aren't the healthiest and can serve as a distraction to many people but that doesn't automatically mean that those things are inherently unconscious. I've been letting myself "indulge" a little bit and I don't think it was a bad thing or that it was a back slide. Tbh, it was refreshing. I think it all comes down how you approach a thing rather than what that thing is. I'll use TV as an example. A lot of people zone out in front of the TV and look like they are half dead because they aren't consciously taking in what they are watching. I feel like my parents are like this tbh. But then there are people who get immersed in the show, starts analyzing the plot and the characters, and are overall more conscious about the nuances of the writing and how it impacts viewers and audiences. I know people like this and I've gotten into interesting, conscious conversations about those things. Fashion also gets lumped into egoic societal shit. To a certain extent I get it because people sometimes get consumed by consumerism and materialism and try to change appearances instead of actually working on themselves and dealing with their insecurities. But at the same time, for a lot of people it can be a source of creativity and self expression which is a much more conscious way of going about it. When it comes to doing things that the average person does in society, I don't necessarily think that people who engage in these thing consciously are in scare supply based on the people I have met. Yes for a lot of people, disconnecting from society to get clear on who they are and what they want is important, but that is not a solution that everyone needs to implement imo. I think a lot of people in spiritual circles can get attached to detachment (myself included) and that can cause those people to be harsh on themselves or be judgmental towards others. There is nothing wrong with ego, just make sure you're going about it in a healthy and integrated way. Sometimes you just have to let yourself enjoy the shenanigans of life around you as a way of appreciating life. Sometimes you just have to let yourself be, watch some old Vine videos, scroll through TikTok, and look into the Free Britney Spears movement lol. It's a part of being and accepting imo. I say that because that there is some spiritual people who just write off society as this unconscious blob (intentionally or unintentionally) that they are above. There isn't anything wrong with not resonating with somethings but that doesn't mean you judge others. Self Development is the Main Thing to Focus on: Again, I don't necessarily disagree with this but I think you can take self development too far. It would also be weird to say on a self development forum that self development shouldn't always be the priority. For me, I got to a point where self improvement wasn't always manifesting in the healthiest of ways. While self development is often about dealing with our less healthy, egotistical ways, sometimes you get to a place where there is a paradox and the time you spend developing yourself can be counter productive. At some point you start seeing that time spent developing yourself is still time spent obsessing over yourself and at that point you simply need to take a step back. That's not to say that you shouldn't focus on self development or that you don't ever look at ways to better yourself in any way, I'm just talking about when you turn into a self improvement junkie, you neglect your other hobbies and interests, and you get obsessed with self development and you end up judging people who aren't as obsessed as you're by writing them off as lazy, unconscious, etc.

@outlandish Yeah that happened to me too. I noticed that when I get more fat and protein in my diet, I don't crave junk food period. But I have been getting a good amount of fat and protein in my diet recently so it's probably something else lol.

By exhaust I mean get it out of your system and explore it entirely to where you naturally out grow whatever it is you're exhausting because you see the limitations or because you've reached the point of satisfaction to where you don't feel the need to chase for more. No, you don't need to exhaust every lower value, just the ones that you find yourself resonating with or drawn to. For instance, lets say that there is a part of you that desires success and material wealth. While it's good to know that success and material wealth isn't the main point in life, completely supressing it could lead to creating shadows. Instead, you can have your success chasing phase and enjoy nice things but not having those be the center of your life. Or another example maybe, lets say you're in a stressful situation and you want to turn to organized religion and devote some of your time delving into that to derive a sense of hope. You can still do that while recognizing the limitations of religion and still using your critical thinking. When you get that out of your system, you can be more receptive to a higher value because you don't have your impulses clouding your judgement anymore. Also while you don't need to exhaust every lower value, I'd say that it doesn't hurt to explore a stage to it's entirety to get everything out of it. I've been in stage green for a while and for the longest time I was skeptical of new age spirituality, tarot, and astrology. While I can't say that I really resonate with those things completely, it did help me open up to my emotions more and try to utilize critical thinking in the form of intuition instead of solely relying on rationality.