Endangered-EGO

@Serotoninluv I also used Spirituality as an escape, but I needed to realise that escaping from reality is not the way spirituality works, I need to face reality in order to do spirituality. Now how do I find love? I found that praying for other people is making me feel some love? I don't know, but I am excited. Kundalini actually gave me a little taste of love for about one second when it rose up the first time. Just very briefly though. I need to be more mindful for when love shows up.

@Serotoninluv Yes I know that I need to slowly work on my fear, but I have no idea how. I had to work on minor fears like social anxiety, during the ego backlash, and what worked best was a step by step ladder like. One would be the things that didn't make me very anxious and 10 would be the most intense fear I can imagine. In this case 10 would be Psychotic Infinity + torture lasting forever and 1 would be the prana I feel in my Body. Can you tell me how I should approach that? I would just say, smoking a few puffs every day. EDIT: I just talked to someone who is enlightened about this: Dark night of the soul is the lower self fighting the higher self and fear is a lack of love. Simple answer which makes sense to me. Moreover I probably don't need drugs, because I believe Kundalini is waiting for me to be ready for rushing up again. My Intuition told me that love is the way.

@Serotoninluv Yes that's exactly what I intended to do. Microdosing weed every day and slowly getting used to the fear of the Dark night. Its not just a fear that goes away, the best I can describe it is, that even though the "trip" only lasts for hours, it feels like lifetimes when infinity shows up. I accepted Kundalini to slowly but painfully rise up my spine and fortunately, no infinity and no timelessness appeared. Its also not like climbing up a Mountain where to go down again. Its more like jumping out of a helicopter and instantly realising you don't have a parachute, there is no going back into the helicopter, you just fall faster and you expect the ground but never see it. Damn I just went deep metaphorically. The main problem is that the effect is not proportional to the quantity of the dose, but once the formless shows up with fear, there is no going back down. And if it triggers Kundalini, which is very possible, I will be in more Dark night stuff than I signed up for.

Even though that's just a materialistic observation of the brain chemistry, perception change sober if you take lots of psychedelics. Is that a good thing? What if you cant differentiate between the different dimensions of hallucinations? Why consider brain changing psychedelics, and not artificial strokes that changes perception of reality? People who experience strokes have a radical change in consciousness. Would you do that? What risks are you willing to take to achieve enlightenment? Why not commit suicide if you want to have no more attachments and want experience God? Because there is no way back into the hallucination? (the one you want to have no more attachments to). Why not go the Hindu way and torture yourself so infinity shows up constantly? I have experienced the dark night of the soul because Infinity showed up before smoking a blunt. Total detachment from reality, but not beautiful. True but dying (ego) every day is not something most people are looking for. Fortunately it went away after 6 months. I talked to 2 enlightened people about that. One has said it is changing the brain and different from actual awakening because it is just a memory (whatever that is supposed to mean), and the other (who used about every drug from the market 20 years ago) said its not making the progress go faster, but you risk being trapped in it. Dark night of the soul and uncontrolled visual hallucinations. I don't want to start a debate with this, I just want to know what risks you guys are willing to take. Is actual dying a faster way than Psychedelics to know the truth? If so why are most people not doing it? Because there is no way back I would assume. Being trapped in it is not the goal, or is it?

@Inliytened1 Don't worry, I am only stopping the path once there is nothing left to question, and nothing left to experience. Fortunately Leo s Video on the factettes of enlightenment showed me that I could experience infinite love. Apparently this is actually beautiful and not as terrifying as the nothingness. But only out of curiosity: Can I now be arrogant around religious people and tell them that I saw that I am God? (Just kidding) I wouldn't call it Void, I prefer calling it the nothingness. Its not like empty space... Your green pseudo suggests that you probably know what I mean. What makes me question the fact that the nothingness is not God is because people who experience God, apparently don't say "Oh the nothingness" or "oh buddha nature" but God. Nothingness is what I would call it. Infinity is also not distinguishable. There is no other word for it. Believe me, my Ego is fighting with fear as its main weapon. Back then when I experienced the nothingness it had no other choice, like the one second that was needed, Infinity ripped apart my ego by trapping me in infinite timelessness until it gave up.

@Serotoninluv Unfortunately we cannot flip the script if it has lasting consequences. We HAVE to have assumptions. Like for instance, that the Truth can be attained through consciousness/mysticism, and not through religion/materialism etc. And we can make the assumption that we don't hurt ourselves or other people physically doing the process. Some people draw the line before psychedelics, other draw the line after psychedelics, but without a line people will do evil stuff. Imagine people believing they have to be open minded to every possibility and their intuition didn't tell them to do psychedelics but to kill people and by eliminating other peoples consciousness they would increase their own (Or any other weird shit insane people do out of delusion). Radical open mindedness needs to be limited by actual actions, and needs assumptions too. I draw the line with not hurting conscious beings like animals or people. Taking psychedelics is risking to hurt yourself or other people. That's why we also need to put faith in Mystics like Sadghuru, the Dalai Lama etc. I have to clarify, that it s not the only reason why I am not taking psychedelics but because it is more than I could handle.

@Nahm Silence tells me to stop philosophizing about this stuff and shut up, there is nothing to do but silence. However if I listen to the silence there is no need to take action, try out any new meditation or even psychedelics, so maybe use the mind to find the silence?

@Inliytened1 Okay, that answer convinces me. I heard Leo talk about God being so infinite that he can only experience himself by limiting himself into the forms. I already had ego death experiences. So that's it? God is what comes after ego death? The nothingness? Everything seems unreal and there only exists what is perceived in the moment? Nothing outside of perception exists. I called that the nothingness, because I realised there is nothing there (No "ME" in my brain as what I thought previously). No perceiver in people. Really terrifying. Just pure consciousness/perception and nothing else. I was okay with calling that the nothingness, but if people call that GOD, then it is kind of... weirdly disappointing. I heard about people post awakening being disappointed. I find it also hard to believe that the other formless thing I experiences was infinite consciousness, because that just overshadows everything during meditation, but there is no point in starting a religion from that realisation lol.

@AlphaAbundance I had a few awakenings, Is that what you are referring to as "enlightenment experience"? You are curious, so Nothingness, dying, Infinity, life is a dream were my awakenings. There are a few stages of enlightenment and liberation. Take sadhguru for example, he claims that he doesn't know how to meditate anymore, if he closes his eyes the world disappears. That's probably absolute enlightenment. I have talked to people who are able to only have thoughts if necessary, and able to perceive the formless within a second. Another guy just told me that he was everything, not explaining how or if he switches. Those 2 people I described STILL meditate, that's kind of enlightenment, Sadhguru is absolute enlightenment if what he is describing is true.

@AlphaAbundance I heard that too. So we are basically in a vicious circle controlled by karma. That thought gives me existential pain lol.

You can only achieve enlightenment if you want either liberation or the absolute truth. The rest only brings more attachment. Because The path comes with ups and downs. Now try everything that is necessary. Some people say psychedelics are the best way, others say psychedelics only make you remember the truth, and can do more harm than good if not done correctly.

@Dumuzzi Kundalini doesn't just stop apparently? Do you still feel the shakti energy in your Body? Do you feel like you are in Heaven, or did you feel in heaven after the snake crawled up the entire spine? I have talked to people a Person who enlightened from Kundalini. Started 20 years ago It seems to me that Leo doesn't understand that Chakras/Energy in the Body are not "just energy" but actually physical.

@Nak Khid Its interesting to view different perspectives.

How would you guys recommend people to get out of the dark night of the soul? There are so many. I was in it too, died nearly every day for 6 months and then the nothingness went away. It is for the same reason I can not take drugs, this would probably give me a panic attack and get me right into the DN. Meditating on infinity is no problem though, I am okay with the small detachement. How do you overcome the fear of the nothingness/dying? Or is it normal to feel a little afraid and weird when it is happening? Is it also normal to experience Depersonalisation in between the "dying". Like experiencing the nothingness just a little bit? I am not in it right now, but there are a lot of people who are, and I will maybe fall back into it. I guess that with love this process would be beautiful and not strange and painful?

@PenguinPablo Its basically everything that Leo explained about enlightenment and the formless. It depends on luck, apparently some people are more frequently aware about the formless. That's why you need to label every sensation/object, like emotion, sight, feeling, thought etc, so once the formless comes up you realize it is something that is different, has no form. Then you need the right meditation/concentration skill to be able to focus on it. However if you have a panic attack, that gives you the concentration of a monk, because it is fuelled by fear. I was feeling the formless and decided to smoke a blunt to "come down", no psychedelic just weed. Then I had a panic attack for 2 hours, weird pulsations in my Body too. For the next 6 months I died every day. None of that would have been possible if I hadn't felt the formless before lighting this blunt. No even if I smoke a little bit of weed, I feel the nothingness. I however don't believe it is possible for everybody, weed wont give you ego death without sensing the formless prior to that. I would also not recommend inducing a panic attack on the formless. I was 16 back then and never heard anything about spirituality or enlightenment.

Good Luck with that, dying for 6 months every day didn't enlighten me, it just gave me a huge ego backlash that lasted for years. I also didn't accept the shit and love that came up inbetween. You don't really have a choice, you cannot fight the dying process, and if you try, it doesn't change anything to it happening. Hope you will be okay

So again. There are 3 things for me. The formless (like the nothingness, infinity and more), being the ego, and just being the observation and being laid back in trance/flow and just letting things happen. For example right now, I am just observing myself typing this. I hear my voice, I feel my fingers tiping it, but I am not doing this. It s like being in a deep meditative state where things just are. Then there is the formless. Infinity overshadows ever other perception, but the nothingness feels like dying, and realising there is nothing there. But I am able to become an observer without perceiving the nothingness in that specific Moment. If I am aware of the nothingness, then sure, but this state can also happen without the intense feeling of dying right? When I am in a room with a lot of people, I feel their energy and I suffer If I don't go into the trance state of being the observer. No need for the formless. So I was told this was nonduality? Or do I actually need to experience the formless 24/7 first? I know an enlightened woman, she told me that I am able to switch between duality and nonduality. She can switch from duality to nonduality and the formless within a second, and not have thoughts at all when she wants to. That for me is enlightenment. However She told me the formless isn't needed to go into nonduality. She said if she wants to feel the formless she goes into nonduality first and then into the formless. She is basically referring to a state of "Flow/trance" and it really helps me when I am around people. She called that state of pure observation nonduality. Now that's semantics... it helps me. What do you call the state enlightened people remain in when they are the observer but want to function? They cant stay in the infinity if they want to have thoughts or have a conversation with people... I am apparently able to enter that state of being the observer, how is that called? I feel it when I see enlightened people, I just sense that they are being the observer, which kind of fills the room with purity... However I feel the people acting a little anxious-weird when I am the observer. (I don't want to make them feel weird though) Its like they look in a mirror while talking to me.

What is the difference between nonduality and the formless? The formless includes nonduality, but apparently nonduality is also possible without experiencing the formless in the present moment. I have had psychotic states of the nothingness and was also able to meditate on infinity and keep up the nothingness throughout the day. It s clear to me that the formless comes with nonduality, but right now for example I believe I can just become an observer (nonduality?) without experiencing the formless. Is that correct?

I went all the way back (into the formless) and just a little inbetween. I didn't have specific past life story experiences, but a few things I saw, a woman after her wedding at home. I was the father and really happy. Must have been between 1950-1970 because of the way I was dressed. I SAW it, I was in perspective. No visualisation. An enlightened woman told me during astral travel that death closed my heart chakra and hurt my "light-body". I didn't tell her my chakra was closed before, and she didn't know it, I just thought there was nothing wrong with having no emotions at all. She took away my fear by healing my astral Body. I have also visualised the destruction of earth, creation of the moon by 2 formless cosmic creatures. I was the feminine force who then enlightened the first woman on earth. A few days later the Kundalini snake crawled up my spine. Since then I call those 2 forces Shakti and Shiva. I went in UNBIASED. A few days ago I tried to go all the way back. I was the nothingness, being split into shakti and Shiva. Then going away from each other and exploding in infinite opposite energies. Energy then forming big concentrations from both opposites. Colliding with each other and creating matter. The matter formed systems which interreacted/collided with each other. Then formed bigger systems until the "matter" was one big concentration and exploding again into opposite energies. Afterwards those energies concentrated again into Shakti and Shiva who reunited into the nothingness. I VISUALIZED it. There is no such thing as "seeing" the formless like a past life regression. However I felt the shakti energy and the formless afterwards in communication with those forces. The woman who healed my astral Body told me she had folders full of the Big bang. She is enlightened. I however am NOT enlightened. Just had a few awakenings. There is something called soul travel, which makes it easier to come in contact with past lifes. It goes up all the way into the formless, if you already experienced the nothingness. Being in trance you go there automatically.

Unfortunately nobody seems to give a damn. I guess I'll have to find another guru who can tell me exactly what to think and do (joke)

4 Monks are driving together in a car. Who is driving? -Nobody My Guru lives in a house with no doors, just a sign: "For enlightenment look inside". Can I just look through the windows or do I still need to find the hidden front door?

@Javfly33 Could be the start of Kundalini. Try to focus on your lower back, you'll notice if the snake comes up However remember to ask the energy to regulate itself, and don't try to pull it up all the way, don't stop it either. Just let go. It's not incredible pain, but it goes a loot smoother without fear. Make sure to have no drugs or stimulants in your system.

@Javfly33 Kundalini is literal. It starts differently for people. For example pulsations vibrations etc. But the Kundalini is like a electric snake literally crawling up your Spine. No visualisation, you can feel the snake. It kind of feels like your penis close to an orgasm, but IN YOUR SPINE. A pretty good feeling. And when it moves, or when it "shoots up energy" it burns. My face felt like fire. Shiva and shakti represent the divine energy. Terrifying yet beautiful.

@Chumbimba Psychedelics is nothing for unexperienced Mystics. You know what happens if you regularly take a lot of high doses of psychedelics without preparation? All the shit that would have come up during years/decades of meditation comes up all at once. You WILL fear the formless and end up in the dark night of the soul. If you are genetically more likely to experience psychotic states, you will probably experience the first formless things pretty fast if you meditate a lot.

@Leo Gura I would love to see him have a full blown Kundalini awakening. It would heal his auto-immune illness and turn one of the most known "rational Christian philosopher" (for the lack of a better term) into a Mystic. The biggest Problem with Christians (those here in Europe, your Christians in the US are more similar to the ones we had in the middle ages) is, they believe that the Devil tries to bring them of the path by doubting the religion. Ironically, by blindly following the bible or some deluded priests they fall into the Devils trap... I believe they first need to understand that their religion is not just a conceptualization of the truth that Jesus saw, but also a philosophical interpretation by those who wrote and taught it. A lot of catholic priests here in Europe are borderline mystics. They simply need the tools. Once it reaches the Vatican, Christianity WILL develop. Priests have mystical experiences (mostly Love), they just need a little push into the right direction.