Endangered-EGO

@Inliytened1 It's tricky, Osho put it perfectly, there is no God (noun) there is only godliness (adjective). From the awakenings I had into the nothingness, God didn't create anything, god is creation/existence. At least they are right about God not being able to be conceptualised or illustrated. Now thell them that jesus wasn't the (only) son of god and that this forum is full of prophets. I wonder if people who learn about God post-awakening would recognize their awakenings as (christian/muslim/jewish) God.

@Inliytened1 Do you think that most pre-rational religious people, wouldn't consider themselves as trans-rational or post-rational. There is no doubt, that if I go tell a catholic priest about my awakenings, he would call say that it is jesus and the holy spirit manifesting itself to me thanks to god's grace etc. Lucky me, I found Jesus without knowing it.

Interesting website, I might take a look at it later. Contemplation, without "finding" or "fixating" on answers to your question. At least that works for me.

@Leo Gura What would you advise Sam to do? I'm not sure he is willing to "play russian roulette with psychedelics" anymore, and I remember he talked about fearing to "lose his grip to reality", which might mean to fight a change in perception. I doubt that even if he had a god-awakening he wouldn't use the word "god", because that would reinforce "blue" in their beliefs, and he built his career in discrediting old-school religion.

I have the issue, that during the day I often instead of not-manipulating thoughts and ego I just add another ego-layer on top of it. Which seems to be counterproductive but might be just an other step in that journey. It goes like this: thought --> recognising thought (in head) --> spiritual thought --> switching awareness --> spiritual thought --> forgetting it --> repeating it Here is an example: "Oh shit I forgot to make a payment"-thought --> recognising the thought and fear --> "oh I shouldn't resist that thought"-thought --> focusing on sight (instead of thought-space in the head) --> "what do I do now?" One thing that helped once, was contemplating free will and differentiating between "random thoughts" and "controlled thoughts" which is obviously an illusory duality, and realised they were just thoughts. That insight gave me some kind of liberation, but the spiral seems to never end. There are all the types of identification possible. The ego -The spiritual ego- the perceiver of sensation - the switcher/controller of awareness and more - the allower of ego etc. I'm sure there are many more I am not aware of. So what's the solution to that, just observing what happens until it doesn't feel like "I" am doing that anymore? The only time there is no real identification is when I fear "death". The fear of death seems to make everything happen on it's own including movement of the body. I am going to contemplate language, and I want to try to consciously induce layers to the ego, for the sake of seeing that every layer is a layer.

@Someone here Okay, I guess we agree, we just talk about it in different ways, and talk about different things. @Rajneeshpuram It went from 0 to anus real quick hahahaha.

I know that, and I agree with that, the realisation of the awakening you mentioned was ordinary and grounded without firework for me. Unfortunately not permanent, because I am fooled into being the actor often again. I think I am just going to laugh next time I realise I feel like the actor, I don't know what else "I" could do haha.

@Leo Gura Is it a good idea to continue thinking about the metaphysics of reality, I might form new beliefs but I could also uncover underlying beliefs I don't know I have, and so being able to put them aside when doing self inquiry? I have to admit though, that most glimpses I had simply didn't have anything to do with my worldview. glimpses just change the worldviews.

Stopping thoughts seems to be a conscious controlled action for me. Which I know is as illusory because nothing is controlling anything I know, I am often fooled into the illusion of controlling and acting. Basically an identified part of me is fighting the not-identified part. Random thoughts are in opposition to controled thoughts. Of course that's illusory.

@Shunyata You just have to believe you are going to die, and let fear carry you. I don't recommend doing it, because it'll lead you to trauma and possibly psychiatry. Fear fueling you to awaken leads you to the dark night of the soul, pit of the void, DP/DR. Look into forums/fb groups of people who suffer from trauma induced DP/DR. I feel so sorry for them, I believe that is one of the worst possible emotional suffering possible (excluding physical pain)

@Someone here Why does everything have to be only about consciousness work? I agree, from the perspective of spiritual growth and ego, deconstructing reality to perceive the mystery of existence. On a relative level, consciousness work leads you nowhere within this life. I am talking more philosophy than consciousness work. I agree that everything I believe about stuff I don't perceive are just imaginary, and not direct perception. Throwing everything we believe to know away in order to have a glimpse at the nature of consciousness is a means to an end. The end being recognition of the self. However that's just one aspect of life. Post awakening, what do you do? You are experiencing this incarnation, realising that ego builds an interpretation of reality and being able to see through it is good. But that's not all there is to life. Maybe philosophy leads nowhere, but it's still important imo to understand every possible worldview and philosophy, for the sake of the world and people. Consciousness work has it's limit in this world.

@BipolarGrowth We can have a phone call about this if you want, but why don't you share your understanding of metaphysical reality so everyone can read it in this thread?

@Someone here Okay, fair enough, however the things that are not perceived are not necessarily "untrue". There is still a possibility of it being outside of our reach. The fact that you cannot know if other humans are sentient, doesn't mean they aren't.

@Nahm Yes the inbetween thought practice is really helpful, however, there is possible identification with the stopper of thoughts, the intention or the act of stopping thought and the switcher of awareness. Which is also imo a layer. Maybe I should just focus on the inbetween switch and not the switch. the after the stop and not the stop.

@Nahm I don't know what you mean by me-ism. My experience is real. even if it has the substance of a dream. Me is nothingness as a structure, and other objects/perceptions as it's contents. Lower self may be an illusory identity, but still an experience, which may not make it necessarily true but it exists.

@Kalo Matter influences the objects of consciousness, the ego, the lower self. anaesthesia for example. Now what is the unchanging consciousness underneath it, isn't clear to me. You could make the case about "jumping" in time from the instant you fall asleep until the moment you wake up. But that's too subjective for me. Especially if you are not idealist or solipsistic.

@Moksha Well because the illusory thing that was projected within me, the ego, was also projected within other-selves, but the fact that my self was illusory and the nothingness, means that other-selves are also illusory. However, there is no direct perception/evidence of the other-self being sentient, just the projection of my ego into other people, which was destroyed by the insight into no-thing-ness of the self. I'm not sure everyone is on the same page here. Intuitively I would say panpsychism (top down). From pure perception I can only say Solipsism, and from wishful thinking: idealism. It's not clear to me (yet). I wonder if it is clear to you guys. If there is any doubt.

@Tim R Okay, what are your thoughts about idealism? Is it a lucid dream or is it just a regular dream?

@Moksha Yeah well nothingness within me came with a mirror of no-thing-ness in other-selves. Well it was long ago, I'll ask the solipsism question when god shoves his grace down my throat again @Kalo I used materialism to show that matter (and time) influences contents of consciousness and to compare materialism with bottom-up panpsychism. Because Materialism can be true IF you include consciousness in as the most fundamental thing within objective reality.

@Someone here You see, what I don't agree with this direct perception thing is, that you cannot gain knowledge from this. Because from your direct experience, I don't perceive anything, I am just a meat robot that imitates a human. You talk about different creatures even though you cannot know if they are sentient by using your direct perception. How can you know that the thing you are is the same as me. have you perceived being me? So there is no consciousness within my being, from my perspective, there is no consciousness within you. You are not consciousness you are only an object within my consciousness. You see how this doesn't make sense up until a certain point. I literally just made a post about it building a worldview built on perception =only truth. What Kant said about the filtered perception of the world, doesn't influence the structure of consciousness, just it's objects.

@PureRogueQ How? do-nothing meditation? Working with shinzen young's recognition of intention seems to stop the creation of additional layers.

@Mason Riggle so being mindful of how I am adding additional layers into the ego. Won't that lead to me identifying with the recognizer of it? I guess I just need to be mindfull that the adding layers just is the same ego as the first layer which never stops. @WelcometoReality yes, but mindfullness made me add an additional layer in the first place ^^ mindful of mindfulness might be the answer.

@SOUL Haha, that's what they want you to think. They want you to think it's over. But they bought ALL of the mainstream news media in one of the biggest disinformation campaign ever made. Have you heard about silver? NOBODY on reddit bought silver. Apparently the queeze hasn't happened yet, and proof to me is all the BS they try to push into the news. However I am not a trader so idk the specifics and mathematics. But don't be so sure.

@mmKay I heard about someone who suffers from DP/DR and the dying at night was induced by sleep apnea. If it gets too bad for you, you can check it out.

I experienced the nothingness regularly a few years ago, but since then it disappeared and I haven't really been able to get the full blown experience again. I might need to mention that it was probably trauma induced (not sure it was a weird year). I don't think it is enough for me to just deconstruct reality and focus on the now. I believe that it's hidden by the "fear or dying" that's particularly strong in the region above the heart. Now I am kind of in a dilemma: I want to experience it without being able to go through the "death-part". I'm doing this sober, because even if I take mild psychedelics (like weed) and push through, I would have a panic attack and have a really bad time. I know that torturing the mind into the nothingness is probably the fastest way, but I don't think that's the right thing for me, because suffering+eternity=hell. I believe that the subconscious walls that block the nothingness is more fear than it is constructs and beliefs. Ironically I think that the thing that prevents me from accessing it (fear) is also the wormhole into the singularity. I will probably experience a little bit with the fear of dying and fear in general, but I was wondering what possible solutions you guys could have. Unfortunately the fear of death is reflected in a lot of aspects in life. I experience a lot of fear. Fear is also a lack of love. Any book recommendations on fear (of dying), fear of nothingness etc or good teachers that help to exterminate endangered egos like myself?