Endangered-EGO

Yes, well I have an other example. I had never meditated or anything and had a full blown awakening, while eating. Eternity, nothingness, no self, no external world, this is a dream. I needed 6 months to "make sense of it" and what happened was I ended up saying. It was a change in perception that made me FEEL LIKE I was in a dream and FELT LIKE it was more true than anything else. The external world SEEMED like it didn't exist and SEEMED like a dream. Basically I integrated a real intense awakening into the materialist paradigm. Fortunately now I know that materiakism is just ONE paradigm, and not the best one for changes in perception/awakenings. Intuitive knowledge doesn't need paradigms I guess.

@Thought Art As far as most mindfullness teachers explain it: it's about the awareness of the absolute 0. Its recognising where everything comes from and where everything goes to. Shinzen Young said: It happens to everyone thousands of times a day, the difference is being conscious of it happening or not. Cessation, dissolution (bhanga) nothingness. It's all about that "0". I don't believe that what you mentioned (beliefs intentions etc.) play a role at all, because it happens through every culture with some people never having heard of spiritual practice, and it's a natural process. Apparently there's a correlation between no-self and age. That's why old people tend to enjoy having children in their presence because, post-egoic and pre-egoic stages are more about love than egoic people who are "serious" and "worried" all the time. Sorry I went on a tangent.

@Goldzilla "Baby Jesus is going to come with a million dollars cash" -Matt Kahn. You made me think of that quote

@Leo Gura neo advaida like Rupert spira and Eckhart tolle? However I believe they focus on the liberation aspect of spirituality. Which is the exact opposite from most awakening-seekers.

@Leo Gura I had a joint venture with 2 people in ecommerce. I was exploited and scammed Long story short: They ended up continuing without me after our first big success, just so they could continue growing with the value I added without my 25% part of it. Here are the things that were suspicious all along: 1. Never sharing too much information, or access to their programmed "technologies". Exagerating (10fold) the values of their assets. 2. Controling everything I did, as if I was an employee and not a partner. 3. Being pushed a little bit outside of the main strategy. 4. Always wanting to reinvest the money we got. 5. Playing with numbers so I would get as little money as possible. I always had to correct them, and they found excuses for why they miscalculated it "that way". 6. Listening to me, but me not being able to veto big decisions. 7. I brought in a new big-fish partner, and they quickly isolated me from him. Directly hiding information from me. 8. Isolating me from group calls with the new partner, and telling me they would talk about different things. 9. Not allowing me to talk to our employees. 10. Blaming me for a big loss we had, and then gaslighting me, trying to manipulate me into thinking I didn't want to be a partner anymore. 11. Making me do "data-entry" work for which I was obviously overqualified at that point. 12. Ending the partnership after having put up all the necessary automation for the Project. To keep my 25% for themselves. I got some my part of the money from the websites that were still running, but couldn't use the technology to create more, so I couldn't work with them anymore or be their competition. Eventually a few months later they failed because they had no idea what they were doing, and blamed each other for it. I had a big burnout at that point, couldn't work anymore, drank a lot and got paranoid. I needed to do a alcohol rehab because I drank excessively every day for months.

@ivankiss For post awakening work, the only book I have found was Adyashantis :"The end of your world". What do you think is the fastest way to liberation? I basically don't really care about realisation as much as I care about liberation tbh. Apparently, a one sentence practice from shinzen young (paraphrased): turning the coping mechanism of avoidance, grasping and suppressing into concentration, equanimity and clarity.

@lmfao There are antipsychotic medications that help with that. Have you been diagnosed with psychosis or schizophrenia? I'm not sure these episodes will bring you any form of spiritual awakening. I have talked to someone who has the concentration and understanding of a buddhist monk, but needs to take antipsychotics to function, and because the hallucinations and psychosis lead absolutely nowhere. Nothing wrong with it.

@The0Self Let's assume you're right. What about the snake crawling up the spine, causing physical symptoms, intense heat and jerks. Does it occur during the 2nd jhana or not? Why not? And what's the difference between your Kundalini in 2nd Jhana and what I refer to as Kundalini awakening with the snake. How does that fit?

@The0Self I had that same energy shooting up the entire Body as if it was an explosion of bliss (rapture) shooting up the chimney (my Body) when going from Access concentration into the first Jhana. I also used to call that "Kundalini Awakening", but it's a different "kind" of energy. You can call that energy, like every other energy, Kundalini. However the first Jhana bliss explosion in the Body, is a very distinct experience from an actual Kundalini awakening. It feels different, moves differently, lasts longer and has actual physical symptoms, like kryias (involuntary movements) and intense changes in perception that lasts for weeks, that can even lead to psychosis. Concerning the 2nd Jhana, I thought that the rapture from the first jhana changed to "emotional bliss". I don't practice Jhanas anymore because I lack prana and concentration atm.

@The0Self What is? Kundalini, kundalini activation or Kundakini awakening. It's one of the most confusing aspects of Spirituality. Kundalini awakening is the big big thing, to put it simply. Life energy is Kundalini, but Kundalini awakening is more than just energy flowing through the body. It's a very specific kind if orgasmic intense orgasmic tingling slowly crawling up the spine. If you don't have it you aren't through it. I've had energy in my entire Body, mild energy foing up the spine and the Kundalini snake going up. Believe me, there is a huge difference, and you'll know when it happens. You'll fear what's going to happen when the snake goes up. Fair enough it's only a difference in intensity between prana and Kundalini going up the spine, but it's orders of magnitude different. One's a sensation and the other one is an orgasm thatasts for weeks, that grounds you in the now, keeps you from sleeping and make you think you're going crazy. I've fortunately had very mild symptoms, but you should talk to people that ended up in psychiatry after Kundalini. It's imo the most intense form of practice before psychedelics (those can also awaken your Kundalini btw). The issue with K. Awakening is, everybody (me included) use(d) to talk about every Body sensation as a form lf Kundalini, but Kundalini AWAKENING is more than just energy moving in the Body. It's a nuclear reactor (Metaphorically). Fortunately I've had someone who told me that I was wrong, when I thought I already experienced it. Now I know and now I'm telling you all of that.

@Thought Art This makes me doubt that it actually was kundalini awakening. Energy is not necessarily Kundalini awakening. When I do Wim Hoff breathing I also have a strong tingling in my entire body. Which might be refered to as energy/prana/Kundalini, but a kundalini awakening is different. You need the snake to crawl up your spine, or else you don't realise the intensity of what's possible. That awakening terrifies you, because you end up without control of anything, sometimes DP/DR, and in bad cases very bad psychosis and schizophrenia. Involuntary movements, perceived loss of memory, feeling high are a few examples of mild symptoms.

I'm trying to make the case for why you should never, ever take psychedelics. I speak from my own experience, I have just recently discovered that I have "schizotypal personality disorder". If you would like to know truth, you have an inclination to want to know stuff 'correctly' and experience so called "truth" or to get out of the matrix etc., continue reading: 1. Why do you want that? -Because you suspect that there is more to reality than what you were told. -Because you already had glimpses that make you want to go further. 2. Why shouldn't you do it? -Because of suffering: It's pretty simple, you either open the gate to heaven or to hell. If you do it with regular practice, you can always back out and change direction. If you take psychedelics, you open the gate to either heaven or hell. 3. If you want more because life is shit, it might be hell that's awaiting you. 4. Psychedelics can make you schizophrenic or psychotic. -"Oh but that's just under the materialist paradigm, sane people who take psychedelics, without risk of developing psychosis can take it, it's only people that are at risk that shouldn't take it". NO. NO. NO. That's not true. It's schizophrenia-russian-roulette. Before you develop schizophrenia, you don't know if you can develop schizophrenia. If you're at risk, you don't know it. And if you have schizophrenia or psychosis, the thing that defines it is NOT REALISING THAT YOU HAVE IT. If you have it, you don't know you have it. 5. Oh but that's just the materialist paradigm, identifying and grouping symptoms and saying you're crazy, because you're neurodivergent. That's true, psychology and DSM-5 are just grouping symptoms that are common for certain types of extreme. Materialists and Psychologists/Psychiatrists don't know "Truth". However I have spent 3 years studying psychology, have had the exam on personality disorders and was blind to my symptoms corresponding exactly to "schizotypal personality disorder". I don't disprove the claim that psychology is wrong and spirituality is right. However what I can guarantee, is that SUFFERING occurs with those disorders. If you get close or into the schizophrenia spectrum, you're gonna suffer. You're gonna suffer really bad. Because you're going to believe every shit you're mind can imagine. 6. Realisation into the nature of consciousness isn't liberation. If you're not already liberated from the ego. If you don't already know that you're consciousness and only consciousness, than you're not ready for nothingness. 7. "Once I go through the dark night of the soul I'll know truth and then it's going to be over. I'll be enlightened." BULLSHIT. That's not true. I have been nothingness by accident, I didn't even take psychedelics, I just had a panic attack on too much weed. I have been through nothingness, eternity, dream-reality and countless other awakenings for 6 months straight. Every day ego death. It was painful, but apparently it wasn't the worst part. Afterwards I had years of bad bad social anxiety, general anxiety, paranoia, depression, anhedonia. And I'm not exaggerating when I say I couldn't understand why I suffered 1000times more than other people on a regular basis. 8. Suffering is just imaginary/illusion of the ego. It's not important. It isn't. I don't want to give bad ideas to people that are convinced that suffering isn't "real". It might be illusory from the absolute, but not imaginary. 9. Liberation isn't enlightenment: That's it. Get liberated. Liberation is easier to achieve sober, because it's gradually stopping suffering. If you get more than you can take, God's going to metaphorically rape you until you give up everything because you can no longer take it. That's not the way. That's not what you want. 10. "So what, I want enlightenment more than anything else. It doesn't matter if it goes through hell and suffering and psychosis." Okay good. so if suffering doesn't matter, it shouldn't take more than 2 weeks of strong determination sitting. You eat once a day, you sit in perfect lotus 3 times a day for 7 hours at once without moving. (Move your muscles in between so you don't get thrombosis). I have heard of people doing that for decades. Having no bed, just sitting all the time. So it's possible. The only good thing is: you can always stop doing it if suffering gets too bad. Get voluntarily raped by God until you can no longer take God's dick (metaphorically). Don't go down a pointless rabbit hole of suffering. I speak from personal experience when I say that no awakening is worth the suffering. Liberation is real, however glimpses of the nature of reality/consciousness don't guarantee a reduction of suffering! "I don't know anyone who got enlightened from psychedelics, but I know some people that got psychosis from it" -Shunyamurti. "No amount of objects of consciousness can lead you to know who you are" - Rupert Spira. "Meeh, I prefered the sober awakening because I was much more grounded" -Adyashanti. "I'm going to prove to you that I am an alien: ' hong kong, hong kong, hong kong, beijing beijing beijing, weep weep weep, korea, nosik nosik nosik, ouijikimininini, canada, canada, canadacake. eyfrey toray DVD toray. Deee Deeee Deeee' " - Connor Murphy

@Shmurda Here's the non-esoterical answer: "Kundalini awakening" is very intense orgasmic sensation slowly crawling up the spine like a snake. Usually it goes up 10cm and then waits a bit, and then it gradually goes up or stays, or goes up and down again etc. People in esoteric circles call everything Kundalini, but if everything is, then nothing is. If you want to awake it, then wait for a piercing sensation onthe base of your spine to show up during meditation. If you put your concentration on it once it shows up (if it shows up). The snake might rise up. At least that's how it went for me.

@Godishere I think the same way, ramana maharshi probably never tried to heal himself. Sasaki roshi knew that he was going to die at 107yo. And stopped teaching 2 years before his death. What's more to it than being aligned with god's will. I guess God can heal, but god doesn't want to. However I'm open minded, maybe my mind will change.

@Leo Gura I'm not saying I don't believe you or that it's delusional. But people, me included, are going to need more than that. You just need to be able to do it. Then you don't need to explain it.

@Leo Gura How can you be sure about it? Have you witnessed siddhis, or have you been told by people you know that they have witnessed them? I always hear about people claiming siddhis are possible and some claim they have them or witnessed them, but eventuelly they are just deluded, so I'm curious. Being confronted with it, they blame it on "I didn't feel your energy because it was so weak at that particular moment".

And psychedelics put you in DP/DR or right away into the nothingness without residual separation? Isn't there spiritual practice needed to realise nonduality before going into dissociative states? I'm not sure about you, but when I had DP/DR, I didn't have separation, because thoughts were as empty as the rest of reality. The suffering was ego death, fighting the change of perception that's occurring. DP/DR also wasn't that much suffering, the suffering came months/years after not experiencing any dissociations anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zIKQCwDXsA

@OBEler I'm not sure it's always going to stay that good. @Nahm In psychedelics? I would take them after a deeper state of liberation. @Inliytened1 Good point, of course, but I'm not going to risk more suffering. I know how to meditate, as long as there is progress I won't take psychedelics. maybe micro doses, who knows.

@Breakingthewall I'm aware of that, research is currently being done with ketamine. Let's see how this is going to work out. That's exactly how it happens man... Do you know what defines you have psychosis/schizophrenia? You don't know you have it. That's the trap of a psychotic delusion. The "something else" can be very subtle too. DP/DR is Nothingness. Go ask a psychiatrist. When I say "spiritual enlightenment is a predisposition" I mean: "If you go to a psychiatrist and tell him about your awakenings, your no-self etc. He's gonna write down 'predisposition for schizophrenia'". The problem is: How do you differentiate spiritual beliefs and magical beliefs? magical beliefs are a symptom on the schizophrenia spectrum. If you want to do an experiment, just go to a psychiatrist and tell him, that reality is a big hallucination, that time doesn't exist, that the universe gives you signs, and synchronicities brought you there. That you believe in miracles, and that consciousness creates reality as in a solipsistic dream universe. "Oh but the materialist psychiatrist doesn't understand reality" - you're going to say. Just as predisposed people are not going to think that there is something slightly off, they are going to think that it's a spiritual transformation, or spiritual wisdom/intuition. I'm just making the case for why it's a bad idea, you already heard the good things. @Farnaby at least denial is better than a full blown psychotic delusion like connor murphy.

@OBEler Psychiatry is clear that people who have psychosis shouldn't take psychedelics. I guess she still has psychosis today. However I'm glad she's doing fine. @Thought Art Fortunately, I don't suffer as much as I used to. But I didn't have a lot of fun, post-awakening. @impulse9 That's what I mean, psychedelics don't seem to liberate, in the sense that they would reduce suffering.

@lmfao Then don't uncover it with force (psychedelics). I am aware of that. But you cannot always know that you have already existing predispositions for psychosis. If you have a sober awakening, or a "change in perception" or DP/DR, or no sense of self. Guess what: That's a big big predisposition for psychosis. Spiritual enlightenment is a predisposition for psychosis. Something wrong with your brain is a predisposition. Being open minded enough to believe in spiritual enlightenment, may count as magical beliefs. You either need to suffer a lot, or be at least a little crazy to get into spiritual enlightenment. I would love to know how many people here are on the schizophrenia spectrum. The point is: There's no way to know if you have a predisposition, it's most of the time only recognised in retrospect.

@Leo Gura It's different in a sense, that you can always stop hardcore spiritual practice any second. I know that some people react pretty well to psychedelics, but you're just going to know if it works after going through it. If you're unlucky the damage has been done. What's the point of taking psychedelics if you risk to suffer MORE afterwards? Well some zen temples used to start with making the young students feel miserable, so that they never forget how bad and ugly life can get. There's really dark shit going on in spiritual circles. Connor isn't really even the worst case scenario, there are people who took only one psychedelic and developed very ugly forms of psychotic delusions/schizophrenia, believing they are in hell and the devil tries to trick them. A good thing for the psychedelic scene would be to find a way to reverse the side effects when things go south, because that's what meditation teachers do, when students can't handle awakenings. The collateral damage is way higher in the psychedelics scene. You wouldn't want to create more broken people than enlightened people. Kundalini Yoga is probably the spiritual practice that breaks most people. A woman once asked in a forum how to look into the sun without hurting her eyes. The stronger the practice, the bigger the risks, the more casualties will occur.

@Danioover9000 It's like schizophrenia without believing the xrazy thoughts entirely and without hallucinations. Just google schizotypal DSM-T symptoms. You'll need 5/9. @RendHeaven You have no idea. Don't you believe personal experience? Oh thank you, I forgot I just need 'maturity'. I'm just gonna wait until I have some. The stove is strong determination sitting. Taking psychedelics is not knowing what the liquid is, while throwing a lighter in a pool of potential gasoline. Go ask on dp/dr forums how nice life is since they have experienced nothingness.

I have yet to see a person spontaneously experiencing nothingness saying: "oh well it's not that bad"

@Ilan Well, being able to survive huge amounts of psychedelics is not a gift in terms of enlightenment. A gift would be not do need a single dose. Being born as Jesus for instance. My point is not only that it's dangerous. It's also pointless for liberation. I would be okay if psychedelics were meant for people who already transcended suffering. Nobody is ready for nothingness. You die, everybody dies. God laughs at you:"Oh you thought this was real? It's a dream!". If I should find a word for it I would call it:" metaphysical existential eternal pain".