Intraplanetary

Maybe people just never had a real bond with farm animals in the first place. I came from the city but spend most of my time until school, and during school holidays, on the farm. My grandmother gave me two goats when I was little. I bonded with them so much. They were my friends. Goats are wonderful animals I cared for them and loved them to bits. When the time came, they had to go because on the farm we care for and love animals and then we eat them. I knew they were killed for food and I faced that. I wasn't upset I just accepted life. Go check what hunters have to say about hunting? They often claim that killing a wild animal is one of the most spiritual acts. It humbles you it makes you appreciate your and animal life. Both are sacred.

True, plant-based food needs so much preparation and cooking otherwise you couldn't eat, it's crazy how unnatural this is. I eat meat slightly salted and it tastes like heaven. The more I'm into animal-based diet the more I enjoy simplicity. I eat much less chicken and pork now because ruminant red meat tastes best and the fattier the better. Simple shopping; freedom from planning, preparing and cooking food as I usually eat once or max twice a day, never hungry; almost no waste, no farting, great body composition, great sleep. living a life!

it's not cultural to eat meat. Humans survived thrived and celebrated meat for hundreds of thousands of years. A plant-based diet is evolutionary inconsistent as much as you care for animals, humans will never adopt to eating plants. We'll find systematic solutions to regenerative farming which is holistic; it supports the whole ecosystem. Have you ever thought about calories? poor people have much more chances to survive eating meat than plant-based food. It's hard to eat enough plants to be physically active. Plant diet requires an enormous amount of planning, investing in a crazy amount of supplements to ensure that body gets all it needs. Only wealthy people can do this. Plant-based diet is EXPENSIVE. I was vegan for 8 months I spent a fortune because I was planning, cooking, supplementing, etc and still end up losing my period and iron deficient. -- hell yeh I'll eat meat! I'll eat as my life depends on it! And when I have resources I ensure that the meat i buy is grass-fed and local. My physical and mental health is my top priority. this is my base my roots from where all else come. Without it all talk about pursuing spirituality is fruitless. I found I'm my best when eating meat and eggs. And those who say it's wrong...give me a break I'm busy cooking ribs!

love it infinite possibilities

Hey I'm watching his podcast with Joe and Elon. Basically, Elon said that it's inevitable for humans to merge with the machines, and upon biological death, we'll be able to get into a new unit. I wonder, how humans are going to be able to attain spiritual experiences without biological bodies? You surely can't take LSD when you're a machine. Where is this going? I had a kundalini awakening and during 5 days, I experienced the time period from ancient times to some faraway future where humans where living in space as intelligence with no biological bodies. I experienced myself as a being, as the mind, who had control over the emotions and helped others to recognise theirs. As if I could read other beings' emotions and helped them. I know it sounds crazy. But this is what happened. Anyway, let's get back to the question. By what means humans are going to be able to stay in tune with the Source/Consciousness?

I've been vegan for 8 months between 2015-2016. My blood work went down during those months and I was addicted to sugar. I ate so much exotic sweet fruit (very unnatural and unsustainable) and greens, hence most of the time bloated. There were some health improvements because I came to be a vegan from eating junk, drinking, smoking. Therefore, it helped me as I cut all the processed foods in one day and ate whole foods only but in the long run, I didn't like how I looked and felt. I also became judgmental, felt better than others because I thought I got it 'right' and felt emotionally triggered when someone would try to tell me otherwise. Labels are not good. Having a vegan/carnivore or any other label closes your mind and prevents you to see other perspectives and possibilities. For the last two months, I've been eating mostly grass-fed meat and eggs with few pieces of fruit there and here and man, let me tell you I feel elevated consciousness and mental clarity. I feel strong and healthy, full of energy. Going vegan and blaming others for eating meat won't solve these deeply complex issues about factory farming and unsustainable agriculture. And it's bonkers to claim yourself to be more spiritual than those who eat meat. What about our God Leo? He eats animal-based products. Can you accept that? Or any other people who can't eat plants. We're so different and there is no superior way.

I've just seen that thread. Oh man, vegans loved to give you the answers why is their way of eating is superior

better version

It takes complex system thinkers to solve these issues about factory farming and massive unsustainable agriculture, not a stage green people with bleeding hearts.

I agree. My diet is mostly meat, seafood and eggs but I occasionally eat seasonal fruits and vegetables for variety. I haven't felt better in my life, my skin is glowing, body composition is getting better and better, and most importantly I feel mentally elevated which allows me to interact with people more fully, I'm more engaged and energetic. Plus this is minimalist life, very little plastic and waste. And I couldn't agree more about that most people can't afford local organic meat and this is a huge systematic problem. Factory farming is cruel and animals are fed rubbish, full of omega-6 grains and soy and hormones. You're what you eat and eating too much commercial meat is not optimal. I don't advocate buying commercial meat. I advocate supporting local farms and sourcing local produce for anyone no matter their label as vegetarian or vegan. Meat is sacred for me, I'm so grateful I can afford good quality meat as it gives me optimal health both physically and psychologically. Because to execute my life work it requires for me to have a strong body and mind. I can't be sitting fasting or eating lettuce. Won't work.

What do you mean? Elaborate my friend as you haven't said anything here. Empty statement.

Are you blaming me for buying my food when in fact you yourself live in the same era and getting your food without wasted energy? Unless you live on air what would be interested to hear about. Where are your nuts, seeds and the rest coming from? What about exploitative labour, children working day and night to produce your plant based foods? Ever thought about that? Expand your mind and consider more perspectives. Here, I can shed some light for you. Now, you see very few perspectives. the human who east meat and the animals, in particular cows, beef and chicken. What about all other animal kingdoms, especially those small animals that are killed by agriculture and all people who labour in horrible conditions and even risk their lives. For example, avocado farming is also linked to deforestation, drug cartels and drought. For children, the agricultural sector is one of the most dangerous sectors in terms of work-related fatalities, dangerous accidents and occupational disease. I see you have this very simple view when in fact it's so much more complex. Shaming and blaming won't help.

you're not ready for a conversation. You're flying here giving some wacky comparisons about eating faces. Cool your jets.

ok ok... I let you slide this time

But do you see your bias that you already made conclusions that interventional study based on meat diet would be unhealthy? You can't make conclusions based on your opinion. Saying that meat is unhealthy is an opinion that you took for granted. Again, there are no actual studies proving that.

You go this wrong. It's not done because it's extremely expensive and who on earth would want to do this? Who is interested in people's health??? These studies are not funded because no one would be able to profit. There are hundreds of people who know and believe that meat is healthy and would be more than happy to conduct and participate in these studies but it costs crazy lots of money. You saying it's unethical to do interventional studies, it's bonkers :D Don't worry, no one is locking and keeping people in the basement . I give you one interventional study showing that eating meat is healthy. It was done on two people for 1 year! And what about Eskimos? they ate exclusively meat-only diet for hundreds of years and thrived. There are many other tribes. Tell me one tribe in the history of the world that lived on plant-diet? The study is here https://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf

No, it's not. Find and share at least one INTERVENTIONAL study exclusively on meat proving that meat is unhealthy. I guarantee you that what you will find is only epidemiological studies based on surveys that are correlational. Anyway, I'm open to the possibility you'll find one.

From my experience, eating nose-to-tail I've felt the most elevated consciousness and clarity. I sleep well, motivated to meditate have so much energy to exercise and do what's important. It's crucial that is makes me healthy and energetic. That's fundamental because without physical and mental health I can't do anything. I can't help myself, be efficient let alone go there and contribute to society. Yes, we don't need to hunt as we're privileged in this day and age that someone else can raise and hunt animals for us so we can do something else with our time. Your health and wellbeing is the key. We just got to make sure we do it ethically and holistically. Which is a complex issue. I can only start by taking small local actions.

@datamonster by the way, you shared more than one source. Not fair play!

@datamonster thanks for sharing. I absolutely agree with the ethical issues concerning the animals. But I don't agree at all with those who say it's not right and unhealthy to eat animal-based products. Our ancestors thrived eating animals for hundreds of thousands of years. I don't think we're more intelligent just yet to know better. Exploding human population and greed led us to cruel farming but it doesn't mean that we have to forget where we're coming from from the evolutionary perspective. Most of the meat I source is from local farms where animals are treated fairly and kindly. They do what animals supposed to do - graze all day long outside, sleep and repeat. Your perspective encouraged me to embody my values of health further by trying to source ALL my animal-based products from local farms and completely avoid commercial supermarkets. Thanks!

@datamonster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIUxXA9Zm3k&list=LL&index=24 From 27:40 to 29:50. These words speak to my soul. I feel that this is the optimal embodiment of values of health and how we relate to the animal kingdom in this day and age; from my perspective . It's about celebrating the sacred life of the animal kingdom that sustains our lives and provides optimal health to thrive and pursue a good life. What about you? Share yours.

@datamonster it's a highly complex system. There are so many stakeholders involved in factory farming and agriculture and it's highly monopolised. It's very deep stuff. It'll take years and years to work out how to feed billions of people by holistic and ethical means. And for now, I do my best and I respect others for doing their best. My housemate is vegan and I have nothing but respect for her trying to lead a healthy lifestyle to what she thinks is the best. We agree on some things and don't on others and that's okay. All I care about is to have an intelligent kind conversation.

This is not true. Ruminant animals graze of the grass and live on hay during winter. they need nothing else, literally. Sustainable farms also raise free-range pigs and chickens. I agree that there is a war between vegans and carnivore advocates. I don't claim to be myself a carnivore. I don't need labels. it closes the mind and prevents considering alternatives. From my experience, I feel the best eating meat. I feel spiritually and mentally elevated. I respect the life cycle I love animals I'm so thankful. I see hunting or raising animals as sacred acts. I remember when I was vegan, I believed that this is the best way of eating and I felt superior because I thought I'm caring for animals and nature. However, now eating meat and sourcing products locally, I'm more humble, more open-minded. I even feel more connected to the animal kingdom from a spiritual perspective than when I was a vegan. Because know I feel grateful for sustaining my life and giving me optimal health as before it was more about ego.

There are no interventional studies done to prove that red meat is unhealthy. All these claims about red meat are based on the epidemiological studies that are based on surveys. Majority of the population eat meat with bread, chips and soda on the side so it's not true to say that red meat is unhealthy. It's only correlation. As far as my research goes, regenerative farming is the most sustainable means of producing meat. It supports the entire ecosystem, ensures high-quality soil and ethics. There are already some farms who practice this, however, it'll take many years for us to awaken to this way of producing meat large scale and ensuring environmental sustainability. Personally, I can still contribute. I go to farmers markets as often as possible and eat mostly seasonal local organic produce. in this way, I support local farming and the environment.

Hey I quit coffee a month ago after consuming for my whole life since I was like 16 years old. I feel okay though it still feels weird to drink tea in the morning. I thought this book I share below may help you to educate yourself and make a decision easier. I haven't read it myself but if you do please share your opinion/insights. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Caffeine-Blues-Hidden-Dangers-Americas-ebook/dp/B00FOSAP5I/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1602955357&sr=8-1