cn03

I'm by no means an expert, I haven't even tried real psychedelics myself, but I believe it depends. Some might be ready as teenagers, some never in their entire lives. Most advice I've read strongly suggests that you want to start with a lower dosage of an "ordinary" psychedelic (NOT 5-MeO, Salvia etc.) and take it in a secure, familiar setting.

@Artsu That's a practical way to convey it, I like it.

@dflores321 I know where you're coming from, that's why I made this post in the first place. Please look into my earlier replies, I am not going to explain myself again.

Philosophy is trying to answer questions that cannot be answered.

I'll give you an example. Benjamin Smythe in this interview: That's what I believe Coral is about (quote by me). He might even be beyond it.

I found an extremely interesting video on this today, I strongly recommend watching it if you have time: My personal summarization: Coral emerges when Turquoise begins to truly see that there is absolutely no purpose, nothing to know, nothing to understand, nothing to do, nothing to teach, nothing to say, nothing to escape from, nothing to wonder about, nothing to control, nothing to desire, nothing to work towards, nothing to lable, nothing to fear (etc.). It's starting to see that it's completely alone, too. Duality dissolves, which means that all spiritual knowledge and concepts must also be given up. This process can be described as a falling into complete meaninglessness. It's looking reality straight into the face, without any filter. It's removing every safety blanket you picked up. It is mostly an incredible painful and sometimes a somewhat scary process to go through. I think that a significantly lower number of people would want to go on the "spiritual path" if they knew that's what they are going to "get".

That's a good point, but I mean a more subtle limitation. I mean labelling all sorts of things, which leads to not seeing universal principles and the obvious in front of their eyes. They might get so stuck in complete confusion that Turquoise emerges instantaneously at some point, because they figured out that there's nothing really to understand that way.

That's kind of true. Tapping into Turquoise and even some "Coral" now, it seems like each leap from one stage to the next becomes bigger and is fundamentally significant. If every stage was about to develop their own model similar to Spiral Dynamics, all of them would put their own stage at that "Tier 2" kind of spot. It's just the way paradigms work. And all stages are paradigms, even Coral+ if you will. Just perspectives that are metaphysically equally as true/false.

This was just a funny idea that I wanted to share. I'm not against "Yellow" or anything. It's just beautiful to actually see that no model or combination of models is actually real or fundamentally true and I wanted to spark a glimpse of that.

Useful in what way? Do you have fun thinking about them? Great. Do you wonder how society will progress, because you're interested in that? Perfect. But don't expect them to be useful in any actually meaningful sense. They just aren't. With science it's similar. There's no obejctive truth to it, so I don't give authority to it. But I can still experiment or benefit from experiments of others. I don't want to throw this stuff away completely.

Ok, so let's make Turquoise "Tier 3". And Beige is now "Tier 0", because there's no culture at all. See, it's completely arbitrary where you draw the line(s). Actually there is no such a thing as a tier, you imagine it completely. And you might understand that intellectually, but not see the significance of it.

The SD model is made up. There's only a tendency of certain thoughts going together with other thoughts, emotional maturity, cultural expressions, spiritual development and however you want to devide the very state of a human being. Someone recognized these connections and created the SD model with those colorful categories that don't actually exist. Models are just additional things that do not deserve any authority because all of them are false and you can't just somehow combine them and get an accurate worlview.

Not necessarily attached to one model in particular. But Yellow is always attached to models and using language to somehow understand the world. Every single leap is massive. So there's just nothing special about seeing the world in that Yellow philosophical way. It's not some totally neutral way, because there are many more ways of deception than emotional attachement. Contemplate language . Is that a legitimate reason to call Yellow "Tier 2"? Look, Blue says "It's all about morality.", Orange says "It's all about science and logic.", Green says "It's all about emotions.", Yellow says "It's all about understanding the big picture". That's my point: You see it as a bigger leap because you believe it is from your relative point of view. Yellow has the "dogma" of thinking obsessively, otherwise it wouldn't be confused all the time.

In a society that's fully awake? Definetely not, because there's nothing really that must be taught. Everyone becomes enlightened at a very young age and that's no big deal. Also I believe that then not everyone necessarily has to do something "for a living". You only work as much as necessary. In a society where most people are debating on existential questions and have had spiritual glimpses only, spirituality is quite mainstream and therefore has less addtional (sub)cultural attachments than it currently has. There are less actual teachers, but way more ordinary people giving spiritual advice and guidance on a personal level.

Yellow sees the step from the previous stage as an extremely profound and meaningful one that somehow changed everything. Green, Orange, Blue etc. do the exact same thing. Yellow thinks it's free of major dogma, but it isn't: It subtly believes in philosophy, models of reality and the usage of language. And since Spiral Dynamics was basically invented by Yellow, you can see its ignorance there.