Robert

I already told you... I've been to post-rational space years ago. I know what you're talking about. I guess we will just agree to disagree on this whole thing.

So you can't back up your claim. I think what I gave is the best view; Science is concrete and uses rationality to prove things about the universe to give us a better understanding of life. I don't know what can be more accurate and expansive as that.

Can you describe it?

What is the more expansive view?

Science is science, so it can't become spirituality or anything else. It's very concrete, not abstract. And it proves things in order to help us understand the universe.

I never said you couldn't be one. I'm glad to see another post-rational scientist. Most scientists didn't integrate post-rationalism, which is one of the main reasons they're stuck at Orange. You're obviously passed that.

My contemplations are very deep. Believe me, I already integrated post-rationalism a long time ago. I know exactly what you and other Green/Yellow/Turquoise people are talking about. I've experienced all of that stuff. But at the end of the day science will always be rational. There is no post-rational science!!!

I remember the exact moment I started moving through Yellow. It was years ago before I even knew what Spiral Dynamics was. I became aware of the other stages, which Leo says is basically a clear sign that you're in tier 2. I was in my room thinking about politics and trying to figure out the world's problems until the moment came that I asked myself something along the lines of: "what perspective will I take next?" Then I started to reflect on how I went from Christian to atheist to liberal, etc. And from that moment on I started to embody everything stage Yellow: systems thinking, integration, etc. I moved into Turquoise about 2-3 years ago, then Coral about 6-7 months ago.

You seem to think that I'm dismissing post-rationalism as nothing. That's not what I'm doing. I even said in my first post in this thread that post-rationalism would be good for scientists to significantly improve the quality of their experiments. I see the wisdom, trust me. When I was 16 years old I felt isolated because I was thinking post-rationally and I couldn't communicate it to anyone and no one understood me at all. I also cared about the planet and animals yet most of the other kids didn't at all because they were Red, Blue, or Orange. I even had a therapist who I believe was Orange who sort of made it seem like I was being unreasonable for getting emotional due to the state of the planet and not only my personal life. One time I cried right in front of her when IIRC she basically said I shouldn't care about the planet that much. I understand Green and post-rationalism. I get it. But post-rationalism is not useful for figuring out the universe. Rationalism is what enables us to get results with science and spiritual practices, even if the insights can only be understood by a post-rational thinker.

I transcended rationality years ago. I would say about 7 years ago when I moved up to Green on the spiral at the age of 16. I'm Coral now.

It's not post-rational. To sit down and self-inquire or contemplate is to take a purely rational action. I can agree with your second paragraph though.

Of course you don't understand. Instead of doing the work you'd rather spout nonsense before putting in any effort. Get off the internet and start contemplating seriously, then maybe you'll comprehend the stuff I say. I'm not gonna answer any more questions from you in this thread. Bye for now.

Nope. Thoughts are not required to do science. You're very mistaken.

@Jack River Be mature. Back yourself up. You haven't touched anything I said.

@Jack River Are you being snarky or serious?

You're a post-rational scientist because you've integrated post-rationalism as part of your personal development, but you do science as a job. However, you don't do post-rational science as a job because science can only be rational. Nature of the beast.

I mean that self-inquiry and contemplation are based on rationality. You sitting there and asking questions like "what is consciousness" or "who am I" is you using rationality.

@Jack River All I'm saying is that the practices themselves are rational. What you take from them is a different story.

I already do plenty of self-inquiry and contemplation, but neither one of these practices are post-rational science. Anything we get from a self-inquiry or a contemplation is based on rationality. There is no post-rational science.

When planning your self-improvement, always keep into account the fact that you are already developing in every moment, even if you aren't in the middle of a hardcore self-improvement practice. You are already growing and evolving, so be strategic about your self-improvement goals.

@Serotoninluv How would I do post-rational science on myself?

@sarapr Science is science, so it can't go "post-rational" because it's, by definition, rational (based on logic, observations, experiments, etc.) You're basically correct in what you're saying, except I wouldn't use the word "none-materialism" to go along with science. It's not necessary, although a materialist paradigm is not what I would advocate either. If scientists were to raise their awareness with post-rationalism, the quality of their experiments and studies would increase significantly. This is why post-rational would be most valuable for them, for them to grow themselves. For them to do personal development, purify the spirit, not to try to force it on science itself which would be worse than useless and the epitome of counterproductive. Post-rationalism isn't helpful at all when it comes to understanding the universe. Rationalism and science is the best thing we have for that. However, reality is infinite, so we can not deny the importance of post-rationalism within reality. It's divine, part of God's indescribable majesty. Cannot be put into words, but the best word I can think of right now is: MAGICAL. Great questions, OP.

@kieranperez Inspiring and beautiful! Thanks for sharing.

@Marinus You don't really have to give up anything in order to move up the spiral. It might help in some cases, but it's not necessary. And I also think it's unwise to just take a whole genre or hobby and label it as being a specific stage. You can be at Turquoise and still watch action movies every single day, I think. But yes, I agree that Hollywood is Orange. I'm disgusted with Hollywood in general. I want Hollywood to integrate the higher stages like Yellow and Turquoise because I know it would make the movies way better. My advice is for you to focus on moving up the spiral if you want, but only start making decisions when you actually get to whatever stage it is you wanted to get to. Don't anticipate everything. You don't know what Green will make you do until you get there.

@Elisabeth Meaning comes from storytelling, so tell yourself a story in your head. If you want a meaningful career, tell yourself a story about your career with you as the main character. It doesn't even matter what the career is. And as helpful as darkness can be for storytelling, it's not even necessary. If you just tell a story, meaning will come flooding in.