Gnosis

Everyone knows you're not meant to answer koans so hastily. You'll get beat over the head with a stick! Here's another one for you, Who's getting beat over the head?

@VeganAwake For lack of a better way of putting it, it's clear you're obsessed with one perspective and what has been written here (in the original post) has totally gone over your head. Importance is relative. Consider that sometimes the Truth as you conceive it isn't what's most important. Can your stomach grok that? Will a being at Spiral Dynamics stage Red accept or value what you're preaching? No, not a chance. Does that same being technically still have access to the same Truth? Yes. Will a being at Spiral Dynamics Blue2 (the unnamed stage above Coral) understand all you've said, but with totally different depth and explicate it in a totally different way if he/she was asked to? Yes. Is that same being accessing some higher Truth than you? No. One question to consider, Who shot the messenger?

Matt Kahn! I remember that one!

We all translate a little differently, don't we.

@Preety_India That's genuinely terrifying.

Don't worry, they're not around to crucify anyone anymore.

@Barna Consider that perhaps there's an important reason I specifically have chosen not to include consciousness in that evaluation. No. Dysfunction is a much more relative issue than that reduction. Yes, awareness is beneficial. I assume you're thinking along the lines of "awareness alone is curative" to quote Leo. However, here you're cutting the cat in half in one stroke of blade and expecting it to stay alive. We all know that the cat doesn't make it. Also, although I understand what you were trying to say, the way you said it was incredibly misleading. If your statement was true, there would be no possibility for being aware of supposed dysfunction in the first place. Since by that definition, the very dysfunction you're aware of, would already by definition be function rather than dysfunction. So your statement is in fact, not talking about dysfunctional at all, but just wrapping around a scalar of attention/awareness.

The cost is relative.

Don't worry, it'll only get worse and worse. Especially if you, You have to be incredibly fortunate for that not to be the case, and unfortunately most of us aren't that fortunate (to predisposed in precisely the functional ways rather than the dysfunctional ones, have the kind of environmental support necessary, and be fortunate enough to develop in all areas of life in parallel). For the ones who are that fortunate, I envy you. There's certainly the possibility of you being totally oblivious to all of that, so it won't even be a "problem". In fact, the word will probably fall out of your dictionary soon enough if you're doing this right. One of these days, you might sit back for a moment and realize that you've traversed the domain of consciousness development so substantially that it might be greatly in the interest of your physical survival to do other things. But you can't ever halt the path. By the time you've reached that point, you're substantially beyond overt spiritual practices. Better will become worse; worse will become better. Better inside the worse; worse inside the better. In the end it'll all come together. If there's anything to take away from this commentary, try to the best of your ability to develop in all areas of life in parallel. It'll save your life. Literally. But hey, most of us aren't so fortunate to have the luxury or predisposition to do that. Don't sweat it, if you die, you'll only be reborn as Ferris wheel.

I've heard of something similar to this. Can you describe the "shining" in more detail? Also, have you had any experience with Kundalini? That said, it's almost definitely nothing to worry about, since you need to be in an altered state of consciousness (meditation) for this to occur for you. I've heard of something similar occurring, but 24/7.

In the dreaming state I've had instances of very similar, actually almost exactly the same experience when I get an increase of consciousness or "awakening". It feels like all the dimensions of the sensory field collapses on itself like a black hole. There's also a number of other kinds of experiences that can occur when I get an increase of consciousness in a state of consciousness that isn't rigid. Another notable kind that stands out is "reality" seeming like it's gradually drowned out by pure consciousness until there's also no sensory experience. What you've described has never occurred for me in the waking state as your consciousness usually needs to be a lot less rigid for this sort of experience to occur like in meditation or REM sleep. So it's very cool! Thanks for sharing.

@Barna I get realizations like this every time I wash my hands after a meal. Imagine my meditations!

Maybe this quote will restore your spirit. "This is what is called being on the road without leaving home, leaving home without being on the road. Is this an ordinary person? Is this a sage? Demons and outsiders cannot discern such a person; even Buddhas and Zen masters can do nothing." ― Hakuin Ekaku (白隠 慧鶴)

You're not going to like the sound of this, but what you're experiencing is not going to be fully addressed for quite a while. Developmentally speaking, it actually takes a lot to "overcome" what you're talking about. People here may reply with philosophy, but frankly, in this case it's not going to help. You can be "Enlightened" by the standards of most users on this forum and still fundamentally not having overcome what you're honestly expressing, even if those individuals won't speak about it. You can find an answer to your question, and yet it'll still trouble you, despite you fully seeing the illusion in it. This is an issue that is essentially of integration, and not an issue of understanding. If it helps at all, you will eventually overcome this issue at a fundamental level, or maybe you won't. I wonder who's it up to?

@tsuki Those look delicious!

This is very intriguing and seems to line up perfectly with my experience. I suspect that this is exactly the way it happens when transitioning into REM, even though it's very difficult to experience the whole transition consciously like you've described. Usually, you catch yourself having slipped a little into sleep and hear a 'thought' as an audible voice, and before you know it, if you're lucky, you manage to spontaneously gain consciousness again having sunk deeper, and by this time the voices have already become multiplied, drowned out and echoed. On the other hand, when transitioning out of REM into the waking state, I find that the voices don't congeal back into one voice, but rather just fade out. In this case, I have had experiences of the whole transition, which is considerably shorter and easier to observe. It most definitely has to do with transitioning into a dreaming state of consciousness, where 'thoughts' and contents of the subconscious become manifest and tangible. What strikes me as interesting though, is that I never experience quite as 'crisp' of auditory perception in dreams or even lucid dreams as I do in the transition state and out-of-body state. Dreams for me seem to be very visual field and emotional body focused.

@Prevailer Is God asking you to be still? God is that which already is Still.

@Osaid You're very welcome! For me the voices during transition into and out of REM often sounds like many many drowned out voices talking in a very large hall. It took a while for me to make the connection that the audible voices precisely were the way 'thought' manifested in this state of consciousness, as opposed to the waking state 'inner dialogue'. I noticed that I was actually incapable of having 'inner dialogue' in this state of consciousness, and that whenever there was the non-manifest 'intention'/'thought' for 'inner dialogue', it would manifest as an audible voice. The mind is truly interesting! Also, you're actually not totally paralyzed in this state of consciousness, although your movement is quite limited. You can, for example, easily turn your imaginary head (and possibly experience that 'visual stretching' I described). If you try to get up, you're most likely to move into a lucid dream. Some energetic activity which can feel like being inside a starting car engine usually has to occur for the state to lead to an out-of-body experience (this is talked about a lot in astral projection and out-of-body circles as 'the vibrations'). I'm almost certain that some of the cases in this thread where there are descriptions of strong heart palpitations, this was what was occurring. That said, I have very limited experience with out-of-body experiences.

@Prevailer I can read your words and see where you're coming from, that's all. Relative to where you're coming from, what I provided is a massive insight if you can see it. Is the drifting a problem?

Great that you've noticed this. There are actually names for this in neural science. There, in fact is no such thing a "Neutral" state. Just something for you to ponder.

@Arzack That is not what I am saying at all. Please read between the lines.

The group of articles you're sourcing that I've seen floating around the forums multiple times I've never read until now. All the articles are poorly written and "phase 3" is infuriatingly misleading. Simply put, an out-of-body experience or even multiple out-of-body experiences will not make you Enlightened. The game of chasing an ever-more grand mystical experience is a never-ending endeavor; all the more when you involve psychedelics. 'Intense suffering' doesn't do you any good unless you already recognize the Truth. @Arzack Either way, this isn't addressed at you. So please don't take this personally. Just want to put it out here that if anyone's confused reading that article, quite frankly, just move on.

There's nothing scary about sleep paralysis. It's a perfectly normal and necessary function of the body-mind. A naturally occurring state of consciousness you're usually unconscious or dreaming during. The specific state you're referring to lies somewhere between the dreaming state and the waking state; it is neither the lucid dream state nor the waking state. There is no 'another person' here. In this state of consciousness, verbal 'inner dialogue' thoughts do not arise in the same way as in the waking state. In this particular state of consciousness, thoughts arise as audible voices. Another observation from experience is sometimes 'visual stretching' can occur in your visual field when you try to look in different directions in this state of consciousness. Almost all 'beings' experienced in this state are entirely hallucinatory, and your perception of the state as unpleasant or frightening is also entirely illusory. When I experience this state I find it very interesting and enjoyable. It can be enjoyable and not frightening in the least. (Just make sure you're not also dreaming at the same time, in which case, your mind will contextualize and hallucinate your experience in the dream-context. This is a complex topic; I'm giving an overview.) It also happens to be the precursor state to an out-of-body state. Hopefully I'm not casting pearls before swine. Some of what I wrote here are careful observations I've painstaking done for myself and not found written anywhere. I can go through and analyze and break down every single account of sleep paralysis in this thread and explicate what exactly is happening, but frankly, what would be the point. I've already been clear enough.

Julian Gough is a great writer. I think you'll enjoy "Connect". It's a little bitter-sweet for me since I don't have a romantic life. Funnily enough, there's a chapter in the book titled, "The Map And The Territory".