Gnosis

@Nahm Thank you, I very much enjoyed reading that. Priceless descriptions of first-hand experience. As Adyashanti says, "It'll only get worse and worse!" The resistance in me was never in "giving something up", since there is simply no way you could be removed of It. In fact, It'll be the one "removing" the apparent you as it burns everything and everyone from the inside out. I practically "gave it up" in a heart-beat when I came around to 'being done''. In part, due to various life experiences which occurred at the time, I was already beyond convincing that this could ever "go", and in part due to having attained a very nuanced and complete understanding of this whole process. At the end of the day, all it really boils down to is some semblance of self-doubt and self-pity that's still left in me. And I'm well aware it won't dissolve from sitting around, but rather from life itself moving along; it'll all go down the river sooner or later. Jesus "took the wheel" as soon as I knew with certainty that I was done with that part of the journey ("being done"), which was a year ago, but we all know it takes a little time to get used to riding a new animal. If Ashtavakra can do it, surely I can. As Ashtavakra says, "If you think you are free, You are free. If you think you are bound, You are bound." I salute you. Hopefully there comes the day I can truly say the same.

That's fair. We'll leave it there.

Reductio ad absurdum is generally only helpful in personal inquiry. When you project it onto others, it comes out as pure arrogance.

@electroBeam Way too many assumptions. Also, Even ignoring that, reductio ad absurdum is hardly ever helpful.

@Serotoninluv Thank you for the very clear response. I was aware of the contradictions and misperceptions in the statements of my post as I was writing them, but I wrote them nevertheless since it was an adequate expression of an experience and how I was apparently feeling. @Nahm Thank you. I'll read through all that carefully a few more times. It should be obvious, but I very much enjoy your style of writing. I suppose I'm trying to find some bearings, while perhaps in "the end" no bearings are needed but only complete Trust. @Spaceofawareness Can hardly wait for the day it All turns into steam and rains down again into the Ocean itself.

I hope you and I and we and all find our Rainbows and Pots of Gold.

I stumbled upon something Nahm said and found it very helpful, "The body is reality, and purification is always the Gift and the order of the day. A single tear will change the world."

Asking the question what is Yoga is akin to asking the question what is What. Yoga is not an object, yoga is a function; yoga is Being. Yoga is And. Yoga is Is. Let me ask you a question, What is And? What is Is? There you have your answer. You're lucky I'm in a bad mood. I don't usually share explicit insights.

@Lento Please re-read my final statement.

@Lento The quote you asked about is a quote from Reddit. But let me ask you a question, what exactly is the point of this discussion? Clearly you are unclear, and it's unlikely others here on the forums will clear up your unclearness. Although, this thread is very understandable considering Leo himself uses the phrase "Your awakening is incomplete". From what I can see, Leo is locking threads which have a high probability for being misleading. He's not locking the threads of the lowest consciousness, but rather the threads based on some ("incomplete") insight into consciousness but are amassing a lot of discussion with the great potential for delusion. It may not even be those who are involved in the discussing that are of concern, but rather those who are merely reading the forums, which will range from those just beginning the journey to those who are very advanced. For those just beginning the journey, what is problematic is that they may subconsciously tune in to the preoccupied-ness with some incomplete facet of insight of those involved in the discussion. And as such be deluded in the future. For those who are very advanced, what is "problematic" is the discussion doesn't reflect well on the forums, since by virtue of being very advanced, what little insight the thread offers is just that. That said, I also intuit precisely what Leo's general criteria is, but I simply cannot communicate that through words. I also understand what Leo means by "Your awakening is incomplete". But if you don't already understand, as evidenced by this thread, I also can't exactly communicate it to you. Anyhow, let's just say there is relative value in both the view of "awakening is incomplete until ______" and the view of not holding such a criteria. Please re-read this last statement a few times, as I understand that my particular way of writing can easily go over the head of the reader. In other words,

An ape in a suit is still an ape.

@Chakra Lion Maybe you do too.

No one said it was justified or just. We can all agree on that. I'm trying to point to a much deeper and more fundamental issue and insight. Since it occurred to me that no one has thus far in this discussion. Either way, I hope you all can come to a conclusion in this discussion wherein you find peace and understanding. As this issue won't be solved through a few forum posts. I've already illustrated that this issue will fundamentally resolve itself with enough development. All other solutions is essentially beating around the bush. Even Awakening is understood differently at each of the cognitive developmental stages. It's understood differently at Blue, Orange, Green, Yellow, Turquoise, and Coral. You can expect that different behaviors arise at different stages when fueled by the same underlying unconscious tendencies. And even those underlying unconscious tendencies themselves to change with enough time and development.

@Chakra Lion It's the courage to be Selfless even if it means your physical demise. And it's not possible to explain.

What we're talking about here is not ideas or beliefs accessible to the conscious mind. It's that which is dictating your actions, and which you have not become conscious of yet.

@Preety_India To put it in different words, at a deep biological level in males, there's an unconscious equivalence of one's physical death with not being able to have sex. In females, the desire to have offspring is similar. Although, I don't know if it's as bad as being unconsciously equivalent to one's physical death.

@Preety_India That's understandable. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if I just gave all of my insights straight, and very conceivably the reader would most likely have no clue what they've just read. @remember I'll be totally frank with you, I have no idea. I've never killed another human being. I've simply become conscious that somewhere in the deep layers of the male mind, there exists this precise deeply biologically programmed equivalence. It's also related to suicide, for obvious reasons. My best guess would be that a Spiral Dynamics stage Red male certainly would act out in violence or even murder when this is at play in full force.

Precisely because from the perspective of the unconscious male mind, not being able to have sex is equated with physical death. To my knowledge, no one has said this, so I'll say it. That's what is fundamental here at the deepest level. I'm only fully conscious of this because I've done a lot of developmental work. Even most relatively conscious males have no idea that this is the case. Unfortunately, this isn't necessarily helpful simply to know. Collective development is slow, and essentially that's what the proper resolution of this issue hinges on. Technology is evolving faster than society, and society in turn is evolving faster than human physiology and biology. Whereas I usually give allegories and poems, this is one of the few times I'll explicitly say something on this forum that is intended to be reserved for a future book.

The kind of courage I'm talking about is not a skill. You'll understand what I mean when you do.

@Preety_India Of course. No explanation necessary. Most men are clueless. I simply wanted to provide a different perspective.

You know, what's really interesting about this statement is that even the women who seem to be constantly correcting you, are from their own perspective just looking out for you. Implying of course, that in both cases, from the perspective of the woman, she is looking out for you. ('You' in my statement refers to a guy. I would assume it's somewhat different if a woman is constantly correcting you if you're a woman. My grasp of female psychology isn't quite robust enough to intuit what that would be.)

It's a catch 22. The issue is, you don't really know what true courage is until you deeply awaken.

A goal is relative. That's all.

One of these days, it might just happen.

All the students get beat over the head. Some of them aren't there when it happens. When they return, it's a different story. Who's getting beat over the head?