SunCat

I stumbled upon this gem just now: Looks like Leo likes to create echo chambers here and he even ends up kicking people out who are more politically conscious than him. The conspiracy theory the video refers to is Russiagate. The obsession and misuse of spiral dynamics is also discussed. But the person goes about the criticisms in a very calm way.

@Forestluv Can you tell me how in the instance of this conversation I've been closed minded?

@Forestluv How am I being closed minded?

Same with me, but our perception of the nuances may still differ and bring us to different conclusions. Not once have I expressed a belief about this Russiagate issue. I presented facts and evidence for you to refer to. Me asking you to provide evidence isn't me refusing to believe you (although I have already come across a lot of info to refute many of your claims), it is me challenging the way you're thinking and seeing how you came to your conclusions and then appointing you to more information in response. I've read the Mueller Report and have spent years reading reports from a myriad of reliable and objective sources that never have had to retract any of their articles (MintPress News, The Grayzone, Consortium News, etc.). The nuance still points to absolutely 0 evidence of collusion with Trump and his associates and the only instance of interference is memes by fake accounts linked to Russia, of which over 90% had nothing to do with the 2016 US elections let alone politics. This is not my opinion, these are the facts.

@Consept How he is continuing the wars even though he said he would get us out. How he is increasing tax cuts to the rich. How he bailed out large corporations during the quarantine. How he increased the military budget. How he keeps war criminals in his cabinet. How he sent in the feds to crack down on protesters. How he refuses to take action against climate change. There are a myriad of other things you can criticize him for that require the minimal amount of evidence to show he's doing it.

No, that was @purerogue You've learned nothing from "WMDs are in Iraq." "Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," - Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer Taking the word of elite authorities without having them provide evidence is problematic. Have you no critical thinking for people that rule over you and have shown to lie in the past? Please read 1984. What behavior are you referring to and what evidence do you have to show that it happened and threatened American democracy? Hopefully it is more important than the actual attacks on democracy that were revealed in Wikileaks, which showed the DNC and Clinton machine rigging the primaries against Bernie in 2016. Or the staggering evidence of actual instances of election interference. This Russia hysteria stuff ain't it. https://youtu.be/ngIKjpucQh8

The world is much bigger than you think it is. You are mistaking your assumptioms for the absolute. Leo specializes in spirituality concepts, not politics. There is SO much information he does not know because he is not that invested in it. He relies on getting his info from people like Cenk Uygur of TYT and Sam Seder of Majority Report, both of which have major blindspots in politics and critical thinking skills that are limited by their unconscious shadow and Trump Derrangement Syndrome (i say this as a former Bernie supporter). There are ways to criticize Trump, but attacking him for everything that he does or hear he does without enough evidence is sycophantic and counterproductive. Use facts, not conspiracy theories like Russiagate to criticize Trump. @Leo Gura "The people that are most triggered by Trump are people that have Trump as their unconscious shadow. What should trigger you most is what gave us Trump." - Jimmy Dore Also, listening to commentators on yotube is good and all, but if you want a deeper and objective perspective of politics, journalists not bound by corporate interests are more important for obtaining information. Some recommendations: The Grayzone MintPress News Consortium News The Black Agenda Report Popular Resistance Scientific America Common Dreams The Last American Vagabond

@Gidiot "@SunCat maybe but Biden isn’t only motivated by ego and politics he has expressed love to mariannes ideas as well as Andrew yang and bernie" What you just said is an assumption, not a fact.

@Consept Trump increased tensions with Russia because he pulled out of the INF treaty; he bombed and killed Russia's ally Soleimani; he attempted several coups in Venezuela and succeeded in installing a coup in Bolivia, both of which go against Russia's geopolitical interest; he supports and listens to Russia's geopolitical enemy, Saudi Arabia; he wants to build a pipeline in Syria, which Russia doesn't want. This idea that Trump is working for Putin is absurd.

@Forestluv Did you watch the video?

"Third party candidates have to fight to be on the ballot in each state, a challenge often made more difficult by Democrats and Republicans challenging them and tying them up in court. For this reason, many people throw up their hands and decide that trying to work within the two-party system is the only available option, as flawed as it is. But, where has that gotten us? Federal elections these days are more commonly about voting against what you don’t want rather than voting for what you do want. Lesser evil voting has driven a race to the bottom in the quality of the candidates because as long as people are voting out of fear, it doesn’t matter who the candidate is or what they stand for." https://popularresistance.org/the-two-parties-have-failed-us-but-the-people-can-succeed/

Not letting ideology cloud your judgement on what's objective. He believes in a conspiracy theory because he only looks at some parts of the truth or even some debunked information and ignores all other information that goes against his biased beliefs even when it is presented to him. Its better to say you don't know if something is true than to act like you know for sure something is true despite evidence showing it likely isn't.

@Gesundheit Neither

I think many of us here can agree that Leo has an obsession with spiral dynamics and misrepresents it as if it defines one's overall level of consciousness. Spiral Dynamics focuses on values, which is only one aspect of consciousness. Maslow's Hierarchy of needs is another aspect. Franco made a point in the video that Leo doesnt want to use a more integrative approach to measuring consciousness like Ken Wilber's model.

@louhad And none of the sources you provide show any evidence of election interference having a significant impact. You also keep using pro-imperialist sources. Vox is a joke. Also, you still trust US intelligence especially after the innumerable times they lied us into war and coups in other countries?

@Space What part of what I said is a belief?

@Lyubov Ok... and? Hillary Clinton paid $1 million for correct the record so that fake accounts could "correct the record" against people who were voting for Bernie. Do you have any evidence to show that memes and fake accounts influence elections? https://www.thedailybeast.com/hillary-pac-spends-dollar-1-million-to-correct-commenters-on-reddit-and-facebook

"Then there is the fact that so little of this supposed election interference campaign content actually concerned the election. Mueller himself cites a review by Twitter of tweets from "accounts associated with the IRA" in the 10 weeks before the 2016 election, which found that "approximately 8.4%... were election-related." This tracks with a report commissioned by the U.S. Senate that found that “explicitly political content was a small percentage” of the content attributed to the IRA. The IRA’s posts "were minimally about the candidates," with “roughly 6% of tweets, 18% of Instagram posts, and 7% of Facebook posts" having "mentioned Trump or Clinton by name." " Come on now, memes are a significant source of election interference? If you actually read the article I sent you'll understand why articles like The Atlantic's are a laughing stock. Grasping at straws.

@louhad I did. The Atlantic has a lot of pro-imperialist liberal hacks. Did you read mine? Aaron Mate is a much more meticulous journalist who won an award for his Russiagate debunking.

@louhadhttps://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/07/05/crowdstrikeout_muellers_own_report_undercuts_its_core_russia-meddling_claims.html

@Leo Gura Fuck Donald Trump

@diamondpenguin Reported it for what lol? Leo promotes the Russiagate conspiracy theory which is dangerous because it distracts from real issues affecting us. Russiagate has been heavily debunked by journalists like Matt Taibi, Aaron Mate, and Glenn Greenwald.

@Forestluv @Thewritersunion Theres no evidence to back up that Russia meddled in the elections. There are levels to corruption, neither Franco nor I are saying there isnt a spectrum, but you have to compare side by side everything the presidents did in order to conclude who was more corrupt and whether that difference is significant to the degree that Leo hypes it up to be because Cenk and Sam Sedar confirm his bias.

People not seeing Biden being as dangerous or more dangerous than Trump (because he can get away with more because people have this partisan assumption) is sad. But yes, integrating these topics is amazing and hopefully that'll accelerate an understanding among all of us so that we can have a more representative government of/by/for the people free of dark money.

This is some partisan commentary. His followers already hate Trump. They just realize "Orange man bad" is too obvious and redundant.