MountainCactus

That book is indeed very interesting! There is definitely something to the right brain theory. Though, it's also more than that. I think what it really boils down to is that the left brain is where the seed of Maya (the illusion of separation) is planted and grown; it's the part of the brain that shrinks consciousness, chops the whole down into small pieces, analyzes, and passes judgment on the individual pieces. The left brain creates nothing but distortions. When you are walking in nature if you are resting in open awareness of the whole, you are in the right brain. When you see a bird and you focus on that bird with the left brain, your consciousness shrinks and the background becomes blurry. These are all distortions. The right brain is more open, with less distortion and less pull from duality. So by moving into a space that is more open and less distorted you create an environment that is more conducive to realization. It's not that the right brain is enlightenment, but for the average person that lives their life mostly from the left brain, moving more to the right is a necessary step on that path to free themselves from Maya. All spiritual methods including meditation, self inquiry, devotion, etc all water that right brain seed. So this is not something that needs to be consciously done, it is something that tends to happen all by itself under the covers. There are also other parts of the brain that are equally important for realization, so it's not so simple to just be right brain and nothing else. The science of what goes on in the brain during meditation and "enlightenment" is extremely fascinating!

Yeah, there seems to be a recipe to become a famous rich big baba guru these days... claim you met Babaji directly, print a book describing a bunch of fantastical miracles (that have to be more extreme than those that did this tactic prior), and create an internet presence to acquire followers. Sadly, people take these false guru's more seriously than they take the real guru's that are quietly helping people deep down in the trenches.

Yes this is fine. You can also practice Hong-Sau and/or HRV breathing as a standalone practice. For instance, if I do group meditations anywhere I stick to Hong-Sau/HRV breathing as some of the peculiarities of Kriya (especially the higher Kriyas) would look strange and be disturbing to others in a group. Also, there are times I don't feel like going through the full ceremony of a full Kriya session and all the separate techniques (especially true once you are initiated into a few of the higher Kriyas) and instead just want to do simple Hong-Sau/HRV breathing. There are also times that I do not have the 1 1/2 - 2 hours required to do a full Kriya session at my current level of practice, and in those cases I will just do a short Hong-Sau/HRV breathing session. If you're not getting as deep practicing first Kriya as you do with HRV it is generally a red flag sign that you are likely not practicing first Kriya properly.

I don't know anything about it specifically. But I am always kind of skeptical of any guru/teacher that claims to branch off of Babaji directly. Best I can tell you is to talk to the teacher directly, get a feel for him/her and use your intuition and your heart to tell you if they are legit and a good fit for you specifically or not. One doesn't just marry the first person they go on a date with. Instead, one goes to great lengths to find out if that person is worth marrying or not. The same level of discrimination should be used for gurus/teachers.

When God went to create, the only thing He had to create with was himself. In order to separate Himself into the many, he had to first create duality. Going to quote the first 5 verses of Genesis here as I think it gives me a perfect platform to transmit this idea: 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. At first all was "without form, and void", and on the first day he created light, and that "divided the light from darkness", and he "called the light day, and the darkest he called night". In other words, the very first thing he did on day 0 was create the thought of creation, and this thought was still void. Then the first step he had to take to bring this thought into form was to create duality. Without duality, nothing else takes shape. Without darkness there is no light. Without evil there is no good. It is all relative. God is the great creator, the great sustainer, and the great destroyer. God had to create evil as much as he had to create good, in order to separate the everything from the nothing. If all evil was destroyed, the physical world would also be destroyed. Now when God created man, he gave man alone the unique ability to discern good from evil. We alone are capable of choosing our path. The "higher self" is not of this world. It is not subject to the dualities that the mind and body are. It is beyond such frivolously trivial dualities as good and evil, pleasure and pain, birth and death, light and dark, etc. Since it is beyond these trivial dualities, why would it be "intently doing or thinking these devilries"? What need does it have to "do" anything? What need does it have for "thinking"? Action and thought do not even exist at the level of the "higher self". So it must be a function of the "smaller self" which is really just body, mind, and ego. Only these things are weak enough to be effected by dualities. Where can the "smaller self" go to "ascend and reunite with the higher self"? This is still in the realm of separation and duality; it's still in the realm of illusion. It is the great paradox, everything is always whole and is always empty, and it can be no other way. Evil has to exist in the physical realm, and at the same time, evil can never exist. Even the evil and "devilries" of the physical world themselves are illusion to the "higher self", in much the same way that any evil done in a movie is an illusion to the viewer.

I am not sure, Siddhis are out of my scope of knowledge, and I personally have no desire to chase them. Lahiri never used the words "opening" a chakra, as the term is very deceptive and not actually true to what is going on under the covers. He used the term raising of the consciousness above a chakra. Kriya is not meant to awaken or strengthen a chakra like in Kundalini Yoga, it's meant to be a way for you to slowly transcend the chakras and in turn the elements and dualities they each represent altogether! Chakras are physical, astral, and causal manifestations, but the goal of Kriya is to go beyond the physical, beyond the astral, and even beyond the causal. The goal is to get your consciousness to the point where the chakras, and even Kundalini itself, no longer exist or have any bearing/control over you. The element of the third chakra is fire, and he taught that when consciousness goes beyond the third chakra you go beyond the element fire, and beyond the anger, fear, and desire to perform worldy centered action that originate in that center. There is no mention of food in his teachings at all. Yogananda did speak of food, but it was never in relation to the third chakra. It was more a function of the medulla, where cosmic energy enters the body. I went and reread a long excerpt he wrote this morning in Second Coming of Christ on this subject. He said that the people that learn to subsist on cosmic energy alone become attuned with the medulla and learn to metabolize the energy brought in from that center. He also said it was foolish for people to try to chase this Siddhi, as it is foolish and immature to try to test God simply to appease the ego. Basically, if it happens on it's own accord take the blessing, but if it doesn't randomly happen on it's own not to chase it. He recommended short fasts (specifically he recommended either 1 day every week, or 3 concurrent days once a month) to help break through the desire and attachments for food, to help the body learn to rely more on this cosmic energy, and to let the physical body have a break to rest and heal the digestive tract for general health purposes. Can Kriya lead to this Siddhi? I think Kriya can lead to any Siddhi, but attaining it would simply be a random blessing. It is not a tool to specifically chase Siddhis. I personally would advise people against trying to chase Siddhis. I think first they need to answer two important questions: First, why do you want to attain this Siddhi? Second, who is it that wants to attain this Siddhi?

Yeah I think breatharianism is more of a Siddhi (spiritual power) than anything. Like all Siddhis, they don't necessarily mean someone has reached a higher level of consciousness. Siddhis and enlightenment are two totally separate things, you can have one without the other, and most gurus warn that chasing Siddhis can actually become a distraction that binds you more to the world as opposed to transcending it. Kriya doesn't specifically target Siddhis, if they randomly pop up they are treated more as a side effect than anything else. No real importance is given to them, and no encouragement is given to directly try to achieve any Siddhis in practice. In Autobiography of a Yogi Yogananda did list a lot of examples of people who had achieved Siddhis, and I think that's why Kriya gets pulled into Siddhi discussions a lot.

Yeah, I've never heard that either. I heard Lahiri say you move beyond each of the elements as your consciousness goes up through each chakra... but that's the closest I've heard to anything like that. My lineage does have 7 Kriya techniques though if that's what he is alluding to. Though none of those are about freedom from food, haha. Also, most people only ever get the first 3 (or up to Omkar Kriya to specify for any lineages that break first Kriya up into 2 initiations). This is really all most people need though. I mean, that's all Yogananda had learned was the first 3, and look at how elevated his consciousness was. I also imagine a session with all 7 Kriyas must easily be a 4 hour+ session... how many people truly truly have the motivation to want to sign up for that on a daily basis? Not many.

Well said. I agree with most of this. And in Yoga the navel is also considered to be the most grounded point. It is the point where the "Samana air" resides, which is the byproduct of mixing the Prana and Apana airs. The one thing I disagree with is the peace vs power part, as I think that Lahiri's techniques also lead to a lot of physical energy... but it's more of a clean energy I guess you could say. It feels more natural, like I'm heavily rested all the time and not like I'm overloaded. Kriya was meant to be the anti-cave dwelling yogi technique. It was specifically tailored for people who are out in the world living the householder life. Also, the higher Kriyas which specifically bring the energy from the higher centers back down into the heart create an energy profile specifically suited to "help other people in a way that requires you to be very active and powerful".

Do you do Mahamundra? Nothing creates more silence and relaxation than that as a preparation in my opinion. Especially so once you get to the point that you can do each rep comfortably in the 1-2 minute breath hold range. All the co2 from doing 9-12 moderate breath holds combined with the stretching just create massive amounts of bliss and relaxation.

@lostmedstudent Alternate Nostril Breathing - unnecessary. Lahiri actually discouraged people from practicing this, as he said internal pranayama was far superior to external pranayama. You can practice this if you like, but I personally would put my valuable time on the important techniques. Ocean breath - Also unnecessary to forcefully constrict the throat. If you read Lahiri's letters and diaries he in his own words said that the sound comes over time from perfect practice, and not to force the sounds. People added in the Ujjayi after the fact to "force the sounds". You'll notice if you breathe as slowly as you can when your breath reaches a certain length Ujjayi and the sounds happen all by itself without the need to even think about it. This was what Lahiri was getting at. Work on building up to a 40 second+ Kriya breath, and the Ujjayi and sounds will happen automatically. It's one less thing you have to worry about. Focusing on lengthening the breath is much more important.

Kriya is definitely not for the casual yogi. It is for someone who is very serious about their yoga practice. You can see my recommendations for a beginner on the first page here: I will elaborate a bit here on this recommendation. The common recommendation on this forum is to read the books, but why do I recommend instead starting with the SRF lessons and a simple HRV breathing meditation? First, the books are overly complex and confusing for a raw beginner. They also add in a lot of things that are unnecessary, and take away a lot of things that are beneficial. In many ways these authors really kind of did their own thing. Second, the thing most people get wrong in Kriya is not breathing properly, so spending time at the beginning working exclusively on your breath and learning how to get deep into pratyahara consistently before you start with any energy practices is the perfect way to ensure you have a successful trip down the Kriya path (this is also part of the reason why Yogananda started people with Hong Sau for many months before giving them first Kriya). The breathing is the most important thing, it is the foundation that the rest of the Kriya pyramid is built upon. It is too common for people to overemphasize the energy practices and underemphasize the breathing, and this kind of puts the cart before the horse. Third, the books do not really do a good job of explaining either the why behind Kriya or the metaphysics behind it. They also add in too many of the authors opinions and are not scripturally sound. The SRF Lessons do explain all of these things very well and in a scripturally sound manner. If you're a beginner, don't you want to know the proper theory behind why you're doing what your doing? The preliminary exercises in the lessons (Hong Sau and AUM in particular) are also a great place to spend your first few months. This does help you get your "basic training and diet right". It helps you work on your breathing and pratyahara with Hong-Sau, and meditative absorption with AUM. These are all things you will be working on perfecting for many years to come, so starting early with a focus on these 3 fundamentals ensures you're ready when it's time to train for the "Olympics". That's my .02 on the matter at least. You're free to do as you wish.

Yes, this is exactly what this is meant to be used for, acute ways to give feedback to your brain to train it that what it is projecting is a false alarm

There are other differences in spinal breathing other than just the elimination of Om Japa. So no, just adding Om Japa back in is not the same technique Lahiri taught... though it's at least a better version than without. I think that the spinal breathing started from Yogananda, as the Yoga Niketan guys branched off of Sriyukteswar and they also have the proper technique. I'm not sure why Yogananda changed it, but I want to believe it was well intentioned. I mean, being a guru in 1920's America had to have it's challenges. But one also needs to look at Yogananda's system as a whole. While he taught spinal breathing, he added Om Japa back in during his version of 2nd Kriya. He also taught people to do Om Japa as a separate practice. He also severely limited the number of Kriyas one could do. He also added in Hong Sau, AUM, and the Energization Exercises. In away, Hong Sau is almost his replacement for Om Japa Kriya, as you'll see when you read GoL that Lahiri recommended people practice 100's or even 1000's of Kriyas in a session. One cannot do that with spinal breathing without overloading. So when Yogananda added in Hong Sau he kind of added in the sublime calming practice that one could practice for long hours. Yogananda also added in encouragement for renunciation, as well as external practices for Bhakti, Jnana, and Karma yogas. So one really has to look at the full system. Just pulling the spinal breathing technique alone out of all of that and thinking that alone is where the magic is in his system is simply not true. It's the whole that is greater than the sum of the parts in Kriya. Can you link me the post from Forrest? Was that Forrest himself that said this? The number of Om Japa's one should do is highly individual, and tends to change over time.

Yes, chakras have been muddied. Before the New Age moment got start up it was pretty clear, as all that existed was what was in the eastern scripture. But the westernization of the chakras led to a lot of misinformation and nonsense being spread. You are correct that you do not want to overstimulate the higher or lower chakras, you want to have some degree of balance. The navel is the most grounded chakra, as this is where the "Samana air" is located, which means that this is where the Prana and Apana airs mix. So putting attention there grounds the energy naturally. If you over stimulate the two lower "worldly" chakras you're bound to get lots of negative effects... most commonly you hear people that practice Kundalini Yoga complain about uncontrollable sexual urges from overstimulating the lower two. Ajna is not making "war on the brain". In the Bhagavad Gita Krishna said that it is above this that is "making war on the brain", meaning the 1,000 petaled lotus in the crown. He stated that the crown itself is heaven. You want to go to heaven, not wage war on it. Ajna is the medulla. The point in between the eyebrows is a reflection of the medulla, and this is where the Kutastha begins. FWIW, the 1,000 petaled lotus does not connect anywhere in the body, it's in going through the star within the Kutastha that you wind up in the 1,000 petalled lotus or "heaven" and this is the end point of Kriya is arriving here. I do find that if I overstimulate the Kutastha or crown I feel deeply drugged and cannot function very well in life. The medulla is more grounded than the Kutastha. The throat is more grounded than the medulla. The heart is more grounded than the throat. And the navel is the ultimate in grounding. As for location of the navel, simply look for where you feel "fear" and this is the chakra. Don't get too stuck on the anatomy and what you've read, feel where it is at and trust what you feel. I suspect these things may not in the exact same anatomical spot for everyone, and this may be why there is so much debate on whether it is an inch or two this way or the other. The heart can create some complications if way overstimulated in an imbalanced manner... but in Kriya everything is always balanced. The heart is also just as important as the spiritual eye. Ramana Maharshi so eloquently called the heart the "seat of the soul". You cannot live life from Ajna or the 1,000 petalled lotus. It is too far removed from duality, life, and matter. In the higher Kriyas a greater emphasis is placed on the heart than the spiritual eye for this reason. You take the Consciousness, knowledge, and intuition you get in the Ajna and 1000 petalled lotus, and ground it down into the heart, and in the process you become the living expression of pure love and light. This is where you can move forward and change the world. Also, a lot of energy and consciousness gets knotted into the heart. I mean, love is the one feeling that every single person alive would give their own life for. So this is one of the more difficult knots to undo. Have you ever seen "Avatar: The Last Airbender" show? In the episode where Aang was opening his chakras with his guru, the guru told him that he had to give absolutely everything up in order to unlock the 1,000 petaled lotus... but he refused to give up his love for Kitara and that prevented him from making it to the 1,000 petaled lotus. There is so much wisdom in this episode it is sickening. We all have to deal with this, unknotting the heart is a very long and difficult process, but one that needs to be done in order to truly merge with the non-dual. Lahiri taught the Kriya Yoga system, which uses pranayama. By "Kriya Pranayama" do you mean spinal breathing? If so, no he did not teach that, and in the book "Garland of Letters" (which is available for free on the Yoga Niketan website so you can see for yourself) he specifically states in regards to spinal breathing that "Kriya without Om Japa is tamasic".

There are many reasons why Lahiri chose to create Kriya as a practice with a one on one teacher/student relationship at it's core. Kriya is a very subtle and complex system. I'm not honestly sure it's actually possible to wander on your own through books and actually find your way to the end point. I started with the books and moved on to a teacher. And the moment I started working directly with a teacher my practices came to life, and I finally started experiencing Yogananda's claim that Kriya was "the airplane route to God". I cherish and respect the techniques, I cherish and respect the teachings and traditions set in place by it's founder Lahiri Mahasaya, and in turn I also cherish and respect the teacher who taught me these techniques, and has spent many hours in person and over the phone helping to guide me on my path, through many difficulties and into the same results that Yogananda and others had written about so long ago. Before I started working with my teacher I had none of these experiences that I had read about so often, and it is wonderful seeing them come to life first hand and having that as confirmation that I am indeed going down the same path that these great masters had described going down. I honestly believe that the one on one student/teacher relationship is an inseparable part of true Kriya, and anyone that gets bit by the Kriya bug from these other sources and decides they want to commit themselves to seeing Kriya through to the end of the path, should seek a teacher as is and always has been the Kriya tradition. A teachers job is not to set themselves up as a point of worship, nor is it to hide anything from anyone. It's to prevent you from getting lost in the dark. These are people that have walked the path through to the end, have helped other people also navigate the treacherous landscape to the end, and can guide you straight to the end without you hitting any of the common pitfalls or wrong turns that can waste years or even decades of time. Either way, my thoughts on this are all in the mega-thread, I do not want to digress too much here, as this is beyond the scope of "where to start" in Kriya. This is more in the realm of how to find the end in Kriya. Kriya is much more than just "techniques". The techniques are only the preliminary work.

The causal body is also known as the thought body. When you have a dream it is your consciousnesses thought that creates the idea of the characters, then the energy in the brain that brings them to life in a way that can be sensed. In a way this is like what the causal body is like, it is the non-dual God's thought that fundamentally creates the idea of everything. From this causal body thought, the astral body energy forms, and from this energy matter itself takes shape. Matter itself at the smallest most microscopic level is nothing more than condensed energy (E=MC^2). Once again, Yogananda's writings are a great place for a western person to get a good westernized translation into these subjects that is both easy to understand and scripturally accurate. First Kriya, as taught by Lahiri Mahasaya, was originally named "Om Japa Kriya". Om Japa is one large piece to that technique. The Kriya within the books they mention here (referred to as "spinal breathing) was a modified Kriya that removed the Om Japa from first Kriya, and instead practices Om Japa as separate practice all on it's own (and in the original version of this modification adds the Om Japa back into first Kriya at a later date). I cannot break my oath and give you the Om Japa Kriya I was taught, but I can tell you that you can practice this separate Om Japa practice by simply sitting and going from root to medulla, then medulla back down to root, one at a time placing your concentration in each of the 6 chakras and mentally chanting "Ooooommmm" into it. This even practiced stand alone like this is a very powerful practice that will slowly unravel the "knots" in the chakras. It's not an overnight thing though, it is a slow process, but very effective.

As far as the aspects of the chakras in the physical body, this came from my teacher, and I have verified his teaching on this through practice myself. One easy way to do this is for example the next time you feel fear, place your consciousness right into that feeling of fear inside your stomach and start mentally chanting "Oooooommmmm" into it over and over. You will see this feedback loop I describe in practice, as it sends the signal to your brain that everything is ok and your brain in turn calms down. You can do this for any negative emotion (although each negative emotion manifests in a different chakra so they obviously won't all be at the navel like fear is). Pay attention to how your brain projects feelings into your body as a form of communication, and how you can communicate back to your brain and in turn train it, it's really quite fascinating! Inside daily Kriya practice you aren't just working with these acute occurrences, you are working on unraveling tons of deep subconscious material (aka karmas). It's not uncommon, for instance, once someone starts practicing Kriya for them to start having dreams of their past (memories of people, places, and especially traumatic experiences), as these old "karmas" or memory imprints in their subconscious start getting processed and let go. It is like a spring cleaning on your subconscious that happens slowly over the period of months and years. Kriya truly is a life changing practice! This is part of why Lahiri said that "Kriya without Om Japa is tamasic" as it loses most of these purifying and healing effects without it. Just like my teacher, I also always start with the physical body description, especially for people that are doubtful of chakras. Like I mentioned, it goes deeper as the chakras also exist in the astral body and causal body. But someone with doubts about chakras is going to get turned off instantly if one starts bringing these subtle bodies up. It also is not a requirement to believe in these things, as just simply performing Kriya in the physical body effects these more subtle bodies regardless of whether one believes in them or not. Lahiri Mahasaya aptly described these chakras as "knots". These are areas in your body where energy, karmas, and consciousness are bound from the non-dual to the causal body, from the causal body to the astral body, and finally from the astral body to the physical body. The whole purpose of Kriya is to undo these knots, which in turn release the energy, karmas, and consciousness and leads to direct mergence with the non-dual. Pretty powerful stuff! If you want to dig more into the weeds on the chakras Yogananda's writings in the SRF Lessons and in his "God Talks With Arjuna" book are both excellent. They provide a true, scripturally correct interpretation of what really goes on when a chakra is "closed" or "open" (the words closed and open are very deceptive and not at all what is actually going on under the covers). There is a lot of misinformation out there these days on the chakras, especially in the West where New Agers have kind of invented and promoted their own unique imagining of what chakras are that totally goes against traditional scriptural understanding. I suspect most of this is spread as a way to profit by selling people cures and ceremonies to cleanse, heal and/or "open" their chakras. Be wary of anyone that is trying to sell you anything like this. All you need is Om Japa and a bit of patience.

When you think of love, where does your brain project that feeling? Into the center of your chest. Feeling that is experiencing your heart chakra. When you feel fear, where does your brain project the feeling in your body? In your stomach. When you feel this you are experiencing your navel chakra. When you feel sexual urges where does your brain project that feeling? In the sacral area, when you feel this you are experiencing your sacral chakra. I could keep going, but you get the point. These are areas with highly concentrations of nerves, glands, receptors, and usually major important organs. These areas have a very primal direct link to your limbic brain. Like your brain projects feelings into these areas, you can consciously project into these areas, which feeds back into the brain. So you are essentially utilizing these chakras as levers to help control the mind, and at the same time releasing energy from these areas into the brain to be used in the meditation. In doing so repeatedly over time you are slowly freeing your consciousness of the burden of the physical body, and in turn your consciousness is able to expand. It does get a bit deeper with the astral body and causal body... but you do not need to know these things, operating on the physical body also operates at these more subtle levels, slowly freeing your consciousness from those layers of the onion as well, until all that is left is pure union with the non-dual.

I am not being arrogant at all. I'm simply filling a void by being a voice for a side that was not present here. There was a desperate need for someone with actual experience here in this forum. There are some common themes in this thread that I had to play the other side on, because no one else was here to do so. If no one else is going to state the truth, then I will. People are free to take or leave my advise. What was important was that someone at least had to say it. This may not be a Kriya Yoga forum, but this sure is a Kriya Yoga thread. You do not see me out in other threads giving my opinion on topics that I am not an exert in do you? No, I stay in my wheelhouse. And if you actually read through all my posts in this thread I have specifically stated that I also started with the books, and that they can be a gateway drug of sorts for people, and that is perfectly fine. I think you're looking for an argument where there is not one. Once again, my comments are specifically and only for those that are really serious about the Kriya path, those that are having negative energy effects from those techniques, or those that are having a lack of meaningful progress with those techniques. I apologize if in some way I came across as anything but that. Also, as for my recommendation for what someone who is new and/or doesn't yet know if they want to follow the Kriya path should do, I actually commented on a different thread about this earlier this morning. You can see my recommendations for this person here:

Kriya Yoga is breath work followed by meditation. So it is literally all 3.

The logical place to start the Kriya path is taking the SRF Lessons. I'm not initiated into SRF, but I've still taken the lessons, and always recommend people start there, even if they do not stick with SRF specifically. The preliminary techniques like Hong Sau and AUM are as good of a place to start as any. There's also a plethora of wonderful info into the metaphysical aspects of both Kriya specifically and Yoga in general to a depth that I have not seen publicly available anywhere else here in the West. This video here on HRV breathing is another great place to start. Learning how to breath properly is the most important thing in Kriya. It is the breathing itself that leads you deep into a state of Pratyahara (withdrawal of the senses, or the no body state). This breathing style is the foundation that first Kriya is built upon. If you can follow this technique and get good at getting into deep Pratyahara consistently, then it will make learning first Kriya super easy. Most beginners mistakes are in not breathing properly. HTH:

I do not disagree with this on a general basis for the average person. All of my comments in this thread are targeted specifically at people that are serious about Kriya, that truly want to follow this path through to it's conclusion. If someone doesn't want to reach the end of the Kriya road, if they are just dipping their toes into the water to see what it's like, if they just want to try to "awaken kundalini", if they just want to generate a spiritual high, or if they are just a general yoga practitioner then they can carry on. My comments are not for these people. I would rather these people not waste the valuable time of the true teachers that we have out there. If someone really wants to merge in Samadhi with the star inside the Kutastha (which is the ultimate end game of the Kriya techniques) then they are going to need a teacher that has both been there and proven to know how to guide others there as well.

"Kriyas" themselves are only preliminary work. You use breath control when practicing Kriyas, as this brings you deep into a state of Pratyahara. After you practice your Kriyas, at the end of the session, you drop the control and meditate. "To slowly melt away in the post-Kriya state, this is the essence" - Panchanon Bhattacharya. If you have a teacher, I would recommend listening to your teacher, not people on an Internet forum, imo.

One must define the word "work". Can the books create a nice spiritual high? Absolutely. Can the books create some mystical kundalini experiences? Of course. Can the books bring someone into Savikalpa Samadhi? I sure haven't heard anyone get there from it. Can the books bring someone into full Nirvikalpa Samadhi? I don't think so. Do not forget, I have seen both sides of this. I started with the books originally myself. I know their limitations from first hand experience. I know, understand, and have experienced first hand the technical reasons why they will fall short of the ultimate goals. Is there anyone else here that has experience with both sides? I suspect Kerk does, based on his comments earlier in the thread. Aside from him, I think the only thing anyone here knows is the books. If all anyone ever drank was green tea, how would they know the effects that coffee would have on them? Moreover, how silly would it sound to someone who had drank coffee to hear this inexperienced person pass the judgement that green tea and coffee were the same thing? Does the green tea "work"? To a point. But it sure doesn't get the job done like coffee does! Either way, I'm beginning to grow bored of the conversation. I've accomplished my goal of putting my knowledge out there into the ether, and now anyone who needs to hear it will. And those that do not want to hear it, won't. And this is exactly as it should be.