ZenAlex

Sigh, now I remember why I gave up talking to you before, you don't even bother providing arguments of your own. Whenever someone tries to provide arguments or evidence, you just gaslight people and do whatever you can to make them doubt themselves and their own thoughts on the subject. You'll try to pass this off as talking from a higher perspective and trying to encourage people to be introspective, but in reality it's because you know you cannot provide an argument back of your own or any real evidence, so you just start the "you're debating from stage orange", "you're deceiving yourself" crap. You tried to defend Teal by saying she's asked for the footage be released, I responded by advising you why this is stupid, and you just go back to your old tactics by claiming self-deception. You start to create your own defence of Teal by thinking her asking for the footage to be released strengthen her position, I explain why that is likely a devious tactic, you don't provide an argument in response or address my points, you just start gaslighting again. You're not arguing from a higher perspective at all, you dismiss evidence that has been provided as not real evidence, you start providing your own argument then when you get a counter, you immediately just start trying to gaslight and manipulate your way out of it. And btw I remember some of the earlier posts on this subject you literally admitted you don't even bother watching that documentary, and then only skimmed it, immediately assuming stage orange. I am annoyed at myself for allowing myself to get involved in an argument with someone who doesn't bother formulating their own real arguments, and clearly cannot recognise their own clear bias. You don't even counter people's arguments or take in what they're saying, you just gaslight and then try to pass it off as "I'm just trying to make you introspective". My ass.

"She stated in the video that she wants the people of the documentary to release all the footage un-edited" Yes and that is a clever tactic by her because she was followed around by the crew for THREE YEARS, she knows that that's never going to happen, so she's demanding they do it knowing they wont, because that's potentially thousands of hours of footage. So she knows they wont release it, and she'll just use that to make her look like she's right. Stop being so easily manipulated. It's a reasonably clever but obvious tactic by her. "Leo has been shitting on people for a long time now. This is a misunderstanding of what a spiritual teacher is." The difference is Teal is dealing with mentally ill and traumatized human beings in real life in a commune. Leo is a guy on the internet helping others trying to understand reality. Leo's specialty is understanding reality, Teal's is supposedly healing people. So the comparison is poor. "The context did matter and it was 100% fine" So you're basically going to take teals word for it that all the awful shit that came out of her mouth was justified then? You're claiming that everything she said in that documentary was ok, and the context that provided you're just going to swallow that as the truth? Man, you are so sure she is being treat badly and everyone against her is biased, but you are so willing to take her word for it. "When i was centered orange i thought every spiritual teacher was saying unrealistic nicety things to make people feel good and to make money from them, it was alllll a scam." Yes, you again making the point that it's obvious stage orange thinking leading to criticisms of Teal. I must be stage orange! No other explanation. As if anyone who's on a higher tier would automatically agree with you and see Teal as something more. Of course. You people let these tiers impact your ego far too much. Please stop using these tiers to try crap on other people's perspectives. Again, you try to paint the picture that the opposition are biased yet you're clearly biased in favour of Teal. You're so certain that she is a misunderstood angel. It reminds me of all the arguments I had with you previously regarding this. You're aware of everyone's potential bias her but your own. You are literally buying everything she says on face value.

Maybe this is just them saying what they needed to say in order to be allowed to film what was happening. If the only way to get a cult leader to allow you into their commune is to feed their ego, then that maybe what they needed to do. Hypothetically if Teal was guilty, then they may not feel bad about manipulating her to get their footage. Do you really think she'd have allowed the documentary to be made by anyone other than people who were willing to allow Teal to believe they thought she was a great human being? Do you really believe if they showed any sign of skepticism or distrust that Teal would have allowed them in?

She gives the impression that she cares far too much about being famous, so perhaps the temptation to be in a cinematic, successful documentary was too much for her to resist. Like I've said before, either she's lying and she's guilty of many of the things she's accused of, or she's really stupid that she couldn't see this happening, and simultaneously guilty of being too much about fame. If she's not leading a cult, she's leading a spiritual commune that would be very easily misunderstood by many people, so therefore she should have exercised far more control over the documentary in this situation. Personally, I think it was Teal's narcissism. Why did she need a documentary to be made about this? Even if the crew had the best intentions, they could have still mislead people by what they chose to include in the documentary. Teal should have made her own documentary if she was really that bothered about being perceived in a positive way. But the reality is what the documentary showed and implied was happening is what she's being accused of by many others for years. That needs to be taken into consideration. If she really wants the truth to be known then she should allow all the information acquired by her private investigator to be released also, as I bet we haven't heard everything from her yet. At the end of the day, regardless of context, some of the stuff that she said in the documentary came out of her mouth, that indisuputable, and it's difficult to imagine a scenario where some of the behaviour she displayed would be acceptable coming from a supposed spiritual teacher, with a supposed awareness level above everyone else's, in a commune with many traumatized and damaged humans.

This is B.S. Sadhguru often advises spending a considerable amount of time alone. An introvert can deal with social situations but will simply have less social energy overall.

Based on the most common use of the term woman - A woman is an adult female human being. This is what most people have always meant by woman.

Biological gender is not a social construct though.

I have no issues with trans people, I'll leave them alone to live their lives. I consider them my equal. The only problem is when we debate segregation laws and I believe there needs to be segregation based on biological sex in some situations, regardless of gender identity. A trans woman should not be allowed into a prison for females. No male should be allowed in a female prison, and also some sports need to be segregated by biological sex. This is where things are problematic. I also don't agree in legal consequences for not using preferred pronouns. I have often tried to remember people's preferred pronouns but sometimes accidentally misgendered someone and it the reaction it got was kind of ridiculous, like people literally hating me for it.

I don't completely disagree as I agree you shouldn't rely too much on others, but viewing others as completely selfish and unreliable is a bit pessimistic. You can gain great pleasure from helping others and some people are genuinely empthatic and reliable for support, but I agree there's limitations to that, and you can only expect so much from people.

It's not in the least bit similar. This is a forum on the internet, it's not a commune of people segregated from society IRL that focuses on dealing with traumatized people, with a self proclaimed spiritual catalyst. The internet is an anonymous shit show, her commune is supposed to be a healthy place to aid healing traumatized people.

I don't think I'd ever have such a vision, that's then thing. It's difficult for me to envision what I'd do because I don't think I'd want to be a leader. Being a leader and having a group of followers behind you is such a narcissistic vision if that's what matters most. The only person who'd place that much emphasis on being a leader and having group of followers is a cult leader/highly egotistical person. I'd only be leading if I thought I needed to, that no one else could do better and my species needed me to lead, and even then I'd fail to see the reason to lead in this sort of field. I could just be a prime contributor. Kind of like JIddu Krishnamurti. He was a public speaker and talked to many people and met them, but he never really treat himself as a leader, and invited questions and seemed to treat everyone as an equal and just looked at what humanity was suffering from and seemed to have a genuine compassion for others. So it's difficult to answer your question, because I believe you're trying to back me into a corner and make me believe I'd run things similarly to Teal, and maybe you're right, if my desire was specifically to be a leader with followers, but I don't. You're zoning in too much on being a leader rather than helping others. No real compassionate person who wants to help others places much importance on being a leader and having followers, but Teal does. Leadership would only be the necessary role you'd take on if needed, rather than a goal you've set on being a leader.

Just because she has a vision of doing something doesn't mean making that vision a reality is good. I'd probably not have such a vision because it's stupid and dangerous, especially considering she's dealing with traumatized individuals. It's highly enraging that she thinks she has the right to deal with all these damaged people, and also at the same time that she shouldn't have to answer to anyone, because.... she's Teal Swan, and as she herself said.... she's apparently never met anyone with the same level of awareness as her. So all the mental health professionals who are educated in dealing with people, have to report to a group of peers and have their methods kept in check... But Teal does not. To answer your question - I'd be very careful about what sort of community I'm looking to create. There'd probably just be books, dvds, forums. Maybe I'd do talks like Eckhart with guided meditations, people being able to meet like minded people. There'd be no inner circle of people separated from society in a little commune. That shit is such a bad idea and just shouldn't happen, especially if it's about dealing with damaged humans.

More and more evidence being gathered supporting Teal Swan being a cult leader. Some people agree she is, some people are in the middle and think she may or may not be, and some people are Teal Swan fanboys/girls who think she is being hated on unfairly, believe her "refutations", and will not see the evidence either way.

She acts like others I've seen with this condition. She's so reactive, defensive, manipulative, controlling, history of suicide attempts. Intense but unstable relationships - She's had 13 fucking relationships and 5 marriages! She seems very unstable and also obviously has very disturbed thinking. It all makes sense considering her background of abuse/trauma, and her family apparently being distant towards her. She seems obviously controlling over people around her. And I'm sorry but editing clearly isn't the only thing making Teal look bad here. She knows that the documentary team will never release 3 years worth of footage, so this is a bluff from her. And if they do release it and it makes her look worse, she's just find a way to gaslight and manipulate her way out of it, and her brainwashed fans will swallow her bullshit excuses. She probably has BPD and also NPD. The cluster B traits are obvious here. She has way too much of a desire to be famous and successful, is obsessed with her appearance and being the center of attention, and is grandiose. Since you have BPD, I can tell that you're getting annoyed now because you think it reflects negatively on you. Note - I do not consider anyone a bad person because they have BPD. I've seen examples of decent and horrible people both having this condition. I think Teal is a source of very useful information, but I think the person she seems to serve most is herself.

Wow, just came back to this thread after a few days. Didn't expect it to be the hot topic on the forum when I posted it. I've watched all the documentary episodes, Teals responses and people responses to Teal. My opinion is now this - 1) It's possible shitty editing made her look even worse.. 1b) But some of the stuff she said, she said. Even if they were part of of a "longer conversation" like she said, it's still difficult to imagine any scenario where some of the stuff she said would be excusable 2) She wants the company who made the documentary series to "release the footage" - This is a bluff from her. She knows they're not going to do this, so when they don't, she can claim "aha, see? They know I'm right, and they're hiding what really happened". The doc took place over 3 years. They're not going to release ALL the footage they took over those years. She always claim the truth lies in the footage that never was released. If it ever is released, she'll find a way to gaslight and manipulate her way out of it. 3) I find it alarming that she seems so calm, composed and mystical for a while, then as soon as she starts to lose control of a situation, she acts like every crazy borderline GF or narcissistic parent trying to gaslight, control, dominate a situation. 4) I have no doubt that due to her own issues, she has good insight into healing, suffering, trauma, but many people who have that understanding don't want to use it to help others. Just like Scientology - Most of the supporters are just there to spread her word and give her money by buying her shit. It's obvious she's a source of useful information, but don't go any deeper than that, and don't think about going to those fucking retreats. The inner circle will be the one that satisfies the cult leader(s) need for dominance/control. The abuse will not be inflicted upon most of Teals fans. 5) She cares way too much about her appearance and way too much about being famous and successful. 6) She probably has Borderline Personality Disorder + Narcissistic Personality disorder. 7) If you're a traumatized victim, just seek professional help. Don't ever go to a fucking retreat out in the middle of no where while being charged 5 grand!!!!

You ignored the question I asked you, and continue to dismiss any evidence provided to you. You sound exactly like a typical cult follower. You ignore evidence, and don't even provide a standard of evidence you would be willing to accept because likely there's nothing you probably would accept. You just try to make everyone criticizing your group, or your beloved leader, doubt themselves and their perceptions with gas lighting like tactics like this. The only thing you've tried to do this whole thread is dismiss me and other Teal critics as biased. Everything she does that's criticized you'll just twist it to make it sound like everyone against it is just biased, lying to themselves, have an agenda etc. There's point in even arguing with you. The evidence has been displayed. I never said it was absolute proof, I said it was evidence of what could very well be true, and to dismiss it as "everyone else just doesn't understand" would be foolish. I'm open to the possibility that I could be wrong. You, are on the other hand, are clearly set on believing teal is innocent and misunderstood, and everyone against her is out to get her. If you dislike bias, check your own. You clearly have it. Which is why you have nothing to retort with other than crap like this.

The evidence has already been displayed. If you do not wish to accept the evidence as clear proof, then I understand that. I cannot 100% prove anything. Nothing has been absolutely proven. But testimonies from ex-members about terrible behaviour, the fact that she organizes things very similarly to a cult, and the documentary clearly showing questionable behaviour. These things ARE evidence. To just ignore at all is ridiculous. Teal has made videos about the documentary explaining herself, but these videos could easily be filled with her lies and manipulation. The documentaries show questionable behaviour, her responses to them could easily be her own made up crap. Again, nothing is proven, but you should at least be somewhat open to the possibility of cult activity. I am open to the possibility that teal is a misunderstood person, but I find that difficult to believe. I BELIEVE based on evidence, but I admit I don't KNOW. I'd say the chances she's a cult leader are greater than the chances she is not.

Erm, anyone who thinks there's no different between getting sugar from fruit and processed crap sugar from candy bars should be immediately distrusted. There's a huge difference as one will spike your blood sugar and usually provide no nutritional value along side it. The former will usually provide a lot of nutritional value and not spike your blood sugar. I don't condone the fruit only or frugivore diet BS, but the idea that Fruit sugar is bad for your in the same way the chocolate bars are is BS. We've been eating fruit for millions of years ffs.

3 hour morning routine? lol. I'm guess you don't have a job or wake up at like 5am. I'd suggest trying to cut it down a bit. Like maybe Jog, shower, meditation, breakfast?

Exactly this Leo. It's like scientology. Most of their supporters are fringe members who simply are used for their money and references, but their inner circle are the ones who receive the abuse, as they are the ones most brainwashed, financially and emotionally invested, and reliant on the cult, and therefore less likely to run and report anything. Teal will get a lot of rave reviews because her books and teachings probably help people, but the reality is she has made herself like a hero at the center of her teachings, she appears very superficial and has an inner sanctum of her most devoted followers segregated from society in a commune, who obviously experience things most of her fans will not. It may not be a cult, but it sure as hell looks likely. Intelligently organised cults will always help many people to give them an aura of validity. She probably has great insight into other people, but not everyone who has this understanding always wants to use it to help others more than they need to help themselves. Teal could be a great misunderstood spiritual teacher, but the evidence is piling up.

I've personally never been in a relationship, I am a schizoid. But sometimes when I see the impact it has on people and recognising the level of betrayal, I cannot help but feel a bit of hatred towards cheaters. Some of them literally just don't care. If they were just a teenager then I'd dismiss it as them being a dumb kid, but a fully grown adult however... If you're going to make a promise to someone, then keep it, otherwise why should anyone else trust you?

lol of course. Anyone who would say Teal is a cult leader is merely a stage orange programmed sheep. There's no other possibility. There's no evidence or reason, it's just she's just out there and different, and we just don't understand! Any cult will say the same. I'm accusing her of being a cult leader because how she often acts, the allegations against her, how she organises and sets her groups up, and how superficial she appears. All these things give me red flags. You can call me brainwashed all you want but you're just spinning a narrative that me and all those like me are just stage orange drones who think that all groups that venture outside the norm MUST be cults is a bit manipulative of you to be honest.

I never said it was just based on a documentary, did I? Read my posts. I cannot prove 100% that she is. But it's the way she organises her community, having little congregations of her most "loyal" followers, appearing very superficial, and also the allegations against her from ex-followers. But the reality is, in some cases unless you appear to have a 100% understanding of guru/leaders works/books/writings etc, they'll just "then what ground do you have to stand on to judge her behaviour". It's typical cult bullshit. They'll create their own bibles of fucked up shit, that they are familiar with more than anyone else, and when you are not familiar with all of it, they'll tell you that "you just don't understand". So basically these cult leader types will get away with a lot because anyone who sees the fucked up behaviour "just doesn't understand", and will respond to you with made up jibberish from their teachings which will overwhelm you and make you feel uncertain of yourself, and they and their followers will be like "aha, see, you have no clue what you're talking about!!". Boohoo, our group and our leader are just so misunderstood.. And yet the outcome is often the same. Ex members left in terrible shape, abuse, and obviously cult like behaviour, and when it's questioned, you bet you the followers will be prepared with pre-ordained responses, ready to spew you with their groups crap to overwhelm you and defend their behaviour as "enlightened" behaviour that most people just can't understand. It;s the same shit, over and over and over and over and over again! It's the exact same fucking tactics!

I see. So some of her teachings worked for you, so it's impossible that's she's a cult leader, it's impossible that all the accusations against her have any merit, because you believe you've "verified the quality of her mind". Wow. This is LITERALLY what any member of a cult could likely say. Maybe she has good insights, but sometimes those who understand higher than most people don't actually have any desire to help others, so will use their teachings to increase their chances of getting away with their schemes. It's often how cults operate. They often do understand mental health better than most, but use it to THEIR advantage, not anyone elses. But they need to sell it to you, and therefore are willing to prove enough results to get you hooked.

"Is it possible they don't understand her?". Sounds like a very desperate way to try and defend her at this point. You could literally say this about anyone. It's what many cult followers say about their leaders and their group activities when they're being exposed "they're just too beyond you to understand". Is it possible that Teal is innocent? Maybe, but the evidence is really piling up. Having a little congregation/commune set up with a select few of her deepest followers where very specific and extreme practices are happening, many ex-followers speaking out against her, and now this documentary. In regards to the doc - It either proves further she's a cult leader, or proves how stupid she is for allowing this documentary to be made in the first place. If she and her followers are aware at how "totally not ready the normies are to understand us", why the fuck would she allow a documentary crew in? She's either a cult leader, stupid or both. Probably both.