LfcCharlie4

@Raptorsin7 I would slightly disagree man. It all depends where someone is in life, for example, if someone is struggling financially it's probably best they sort that out While/Before serious awakening work as it can give them more freedom/ relieve the stress around financial worries etc. Also, post-awakening you can both start another business, upgrade your own or simply sell your current business, I do agree that awakening can help a lot with aligning your business to the understanding and building a business based on love and wanting to create value as it's main purpose. I'm just saying I wouldn't say there's one path for everyone, some people imo need other parts of PD before going straight for enlightenment. Like say someone is obese and unemployed, of course, recommend meditation, but telling them they are God probably isn't meeting them where they are at in that case. For them, it's probably more advisable to dive into health, Exercise, get a job or maybe start a business and putting awakening on the backburner if you get me?

Found this old blog of Francis' full of his Q+As with students. I haven't read through all of them, but I was searching for the quote under my name as I read it in 1000, and came across this blog, which will be extremely helpful for those confused about certain topics on the path, or wondering how a truly self-realized westerner integrates this understanding. Francis Lucille is also Rupert Spira's teacher and teaches Advaita as part of the 'Direct Path' and was taught by Jean Klein who has unfortunately passed away. Happy reading! https://francis.ugjka.net/eng/index.html It's also in multiple languages I think!

@loub I couldn't agree more!! I too agree there is 'Human' and 'Shadow' work still to do post-awakening, which I am still doing. I LOVE there's someone on here who actually understands we are still fucking human post-awakening, and still experience emotions as you say! Sorry if my post came off as transcending or denying your humanity, I often try and say the complete opposite and am thankful to have such human teachers who have helped me understand this as well. As you say Self-Realization is the realization of the truth about our own being, we know we are The Self, we and everyone always Is, but we become conscious of this post-awakening. While there is no separate self as you say, there is still humanity, a unique expression, a personality and EMOTIONS/THOUGHTS, people for some reason don't like to admit that but there is. Shinzen Young was actually my teacher's partner Ramajis teacher, he is an incredible master and perfect for westerners coming from a more rationally minded background. I think I remember him saying about therapy in one of his videos I watched but this was years ago I watched it tbf so could be wrong. The post was more intended to say, meet people where they are at and be with them there. I'm a 20-year-old male from England so when I'm out with my friends what do we mostly talk about? Typical 20-year-old stuff like Football, certainly not Non-Duality And, I would say Awakening in my experience has made it a lot easier to do shadow work and does have certain 'changes' but more in terms of no resistance to the now, and the realization of there not being a 'Me' at the center of all this etc. However, if anything it has made me more human, more myself, and more emotional than before. If anything, true human life only begins post-awakening! It's almost like being reborn again. But, there's still a human experience, however, you want to phrase it, true awakening allows our humanity to flourish not wither away into a depression sense of nothingness. Here's some quotes from Ananda's book on the Paradox of being both The Self/Absolute, and a unique individual simultaneously: 'This clear seeing enables me to live both as that unlimited nothingness and as this playful personal I AM at the same time. This I AM is indivisibly ONE with infinity. Therefore, the ultimate truth is that I AM THAT.' 'This Divine fire then spits you out to be a unique dynamic version of itself. This wisdom of space dances carefree as this I AM.' 'This day and every day I bask in the non-dual knowing of nothingness which translates experientially into the profound pleasure of being an individual too. the clarity of being able to be both fully at once is the final peace and joy. The freedom is in the 'Duality' as well as the 'Non-Duality. It is not one or the other. IT is both yet it is neither' (I would add both Duality and Non-Duality are simply concepts, all that is, is THIS, and even that is saying too much!) The LAST thing I want to imply is that you will no longer be human, it's the complete opposite, embrace your humanity and be YOU, both YOU as The Self, and YOU as your unique expression! And, lastly in regards to seekers believing awakening makes them superhuman, I couldn't agree more, I see it often on here. In reality, Self-Realization is the most humbling thing of all, it is a realization YOU are literally as everyone and everything, how could you believe you are superior or inferior after that. I hope that makes it clear- EMBRACE YOUR HUMANITY!

@Visionary That's awesome, I agree you first have to become aware of the issue you are facing first before any healing can take place. Just like how an alcoholic has to become aware they have a problem before they can quit. It's the first step to healing.

@4201 You can completely accept something, and then take the action required. You can accept having cancer and then deciding to get treatment. You can accept being obese and then decide to sort out your eating and exercise habits. You can accept having a painful headache and then taking an aspirin to relieve the pain. It's not like if you're self-realized and then the body suffers in any way you won't try and heal yourself, it's just you'll unconditionally accept the Now as it is, and then take any action you wish. Maybe that will mean allowing the cancer to spread all over your body and kill you, or maybe that means doing everything you can to heal it. Whatever arises within you to do. If I or a family was to get cancer now I would first, of course, accept whatever arises in the now, but would then take the appropriate course of treatment. I can't say I would do that in the future though. Medicines/ Healing etc is THAT too. However, I do agree with you on several aspects, above is more taken from the relative level, in terms of what 'action' we would take in response to certain situations. I agree that Illness, Death, losing an arm etc are not a problem for anyone, from the Perspective of The Self/Awareness/ God there is only itself, therefore, there isn't actually anything to cure and the illness simply isn't a problem for anything but a Mind. Whether the body is relieved of it's illness& pain, or whether it doesn't make any difference to The Self, it will always be as it is no matter what happens. For example, right now 'I' have a slight headache (probably from too much time on my laptop working) but that does not change anything from the point of view from awareness. Simply there is a sensation arising that is commonly labeled 'Headache' once I take an aspirin and the headache goes, nothing changes for The Self, it is still EXACTLY as it was! I want to leave you with a few lines from Rupert Spira (sorry @fridjonk for quoting ) as he summarised this well, in response to a question. 'You say, “So it would seem then that illness is merely a reflection of conditioned mind in the body, and from the standpoint of Knowing Presence could be healed through the right understanding of our true substance.” However, from the standpoint of Knowing Presence, there is only itself. Knowing Presence simply knows its own unqualified being. There is nothing there to cure. It does not need a perfect body to reside in its own being. The problem is for the mind. If we acknowledge that the interpretation ‘illness’ is in the mind, then by the same token we acknowledge that that which knows the mind is free of illness. So the right understanding of our true substance does not imply that illness should be cured simply as a result of that understanding but rather that the idea of illness itself will be seen in the right perspective. Behind your question is the deep belief that illness and therefore death is a problem and that the knowing of our true substance would relieve this problem. However, when death ceases to be a problem, illness ceases to be a problem. We simply do what is necessary at the relative level. When it rains we put up an umbrella. When we’re tired we sleep. When the body is ill we treat it in the appropriate way…..just appropriate action coming from love and intelligence. And all the time we simply remain our self, intimately one with all appearances, acting appropriately from moment to moment, yet at peace in our own being at the same time.' No matter what happens, our true nature is never affected, however, this doesn't mean at the relative level we can't do what is necessary in response to situations, it just means it has NO effect on what we truly are Summary- The body is going to die at some point, do what we can on a relative level to take care of our bodies and our health and heal where we feel necessary, however illness and deaths are not a problem for The Self. No matter what happens, it is never a problem for our true nature. When you see through the illusion of the Separate Self, death& illness is no longer a problem, as you know YOU can't die, only the body drops away. If you are suffering from illness and chronic pain etc, there is no reason not to attempt to heal it, unless you are using the suffering as some form of practice. After all, Medicine, Painkillers are THAT too, and we may as well enjoy the time we have in this body!

@Gneh Onebar Not sure about that, although he says how all illnesses can be healed with the mind I believe, although I haven't watched him in a while so might not be 100% correct.

There's some Spiral Dynamics groups on FB that might help, or maybe there might be online groups somewhere

@Haumea2018

@fridjonk Well, then there's also semantics here at play. It seems to me what you're talking about here is deep awakening experiences and I agree during awakening these things happen, and it can often take time to then integrate back into life after this. And, yeah all words are rendered useless, everything is, however, we're having a discussion on an online forum so not sure what else we can use, I constantly say the highest teaching is in silence as The Absolute is pure silence, to speak it is to already make some sort of concession. There is just THIS. However, I am merely talking about the integration of Self-Realization in terms of expressing and living this understanding in life. In my experience, there is still a Personality, Interests, An Enneagram type, etc If that's not your experience then it's not, I'm not denying it's all imaginary, It's all The Self, It's All THIS, that's as far as words can go really, that's why they are just pointers. I never said Ramana or Nisgardatta knew something I didn't everything they 'knew' is within me, just like it's within you, they aren't special or authority, in fact true awakening humbles you and makes you realise there is NO hierarchy, we are all The Self, so there is no superiority of becoming 'Enlightened' in fact Enlightenment, Spirituality, Non-Duality etc All concepts that have their function but ultimately THIS is the truth. Sorry if me quoting others made you think I think there is some form of Authority, that couldn't be further from the truth. Simply, they are beings who have fully recognized the truth of their own being. Anyways, we're going back and forth a lot here, and I'm not sure we are achieving much! In summary- THIS IS ITTTTTTTT.

@Harikrishnan Yeah I posted Ramana, and yeah he's probably sitting on that as some sort of message, as he's next to a westerner, although I don't know the origins of that exact photo. However, the Buddha also had a similar situation, where a piece of meat landed on his disciple's plate randomly, and despite the Buddha teaching against animal slaughtering for food in that scenario, he allowed it as he didn't want the Monk to reject what the Universe had given him. To me, I see unless you HAVE to eat meat, there is no need to, it is an act of killing another sentient being for your pleasure. It is not in accordance with the teaching of Non-Violence, or realizing The Self is ALL, so why would you want to harm another being unless you HAD to? There are countless examples of great sages being vegetarian- Buddha, Ramana, Sadhguru, Francis Lucille, Rupert Spira etc I already quoted Ramana so won't do so again, there would've been a reason he sat on that, his whole life was dedication to the practice of Non-Violence and Equality for all sentient beings Like I said I even disagree with my own teachers on this who I am constantly recommending on here, to me consuming animal products is not in line with expressing this understanding, it's not to say you can't be an awakened meat-eater, of course you can, I just think there really is ZERO need to consume animal products in 2020 unless you have reasons you can't be healthy on a plant-based diet.

This is like saying why is Peace and Happiness a 'good' thing? Awaken and then see what Consciousness truly is!

@VeganAwake Same! For my age and considering I run an online business I'm such a tech noob lol, Go to Account setting and it's there mate!

@VeganAwake Yes, like the quote below my name says

@VeganAwake What he is saying is that when people don't have this understanding it SEEMS like things matter. Just like when people don't have this understanding it SEEMS like there is a separate self, there isn't of course but if you ask a normal person, they BELIEVE they have a separate me, even though they are too The Self, they just aren't conscious of it. And, yes, self-realization is like moving to a new city, you still have to learn where everything is and where the best restaurants and everything else is though! I do agree he could've phrased that slightly better though, I felt the video was slightly cut a tad short

This whole discussion Francis answers in 5 mins: If you Truly understand, absolutely, that nothing matters, you have found what Truly matters so it isn’t a problem for you.” (Happiness!!!!)

@VeganAwake Yes! Spontaneous action based on whatever arises, I don’t know what will arise tomorrow, but honestly I’m not bothered as NOW is so amazing and to be embraced fully, without any resistance what so ever. And, great point about suffering, after seeing through the separate self, emotions and thoughts no longer have a “me” to latch on to, they simply flow through awareness with no resistance. However, in my experience you feel emotions even more deeply, but simultaneously let them go once they have been felt. Without a “me” there is no stickiness.

@fridjonk That’s where I’d strongly disagree. It’s not the “ego” who wants to do these things, as to me Ego implies an identification with the body/mind. It is merely God wishing to express the peace and happiness in action. They are not “my desires” but Gods desires, and post awakening God still wants you to embrace your humanity and your individuality as a human. Nisgardatta had a wife and a family, and shouted at his students for example. why? Because he was an Enneagram 8 and embraced his own humanity. Whereas Ramana was very peaceful and more passive, why? Because he was an Enneagram 9 and embracing his humanity. ALL The Self, ALL unique expressions of this. I AM THAT means embracing your humanity to, but you simultaneously know who you truly are. it’s a great Paradox, and really is near impossible to put in words, but experientially is the greatest joy. In earlier awakenings I also felt the “lack” of not truly being able to express my humanity, and reading life denying books really scared me if I’m honest. But, it is the most amazing gift of all basking in Non-Dual freedom day in day out, while also, expressing the playful uniqueness of my humanity, it’s getting my cake and eating it too! I’ve had this conversation with people before, Action does not Always equal ego at all. In fact, awakening actually frees you up to take more action, without resistance, and now knowing who you truly are instead of believing you are a separate self in a big scary world. You’re God wanting to experience itself in the play of shiva. And, you have the power of God/ The Absolute!

@LfcCharlie4 I meant in order to be happy and at peace from the absolute perspective of The Self/ The Absolute. In terms of why do anything else: 1) Practical/ Survival Reasons- E.g. Eating, Drinking, Earning money 2) Expression of happiness, peace, love and joy- seeing friends for the fun of it, exercising for the joy (and health of the body!), coming on the forum for the joy of it etc Sorry if I wasn’t clear I can see how that came across tbf ? All I meant was Peace/Happiness is inherent in The Self/ Awareness, and as a result there is no need to do anything to obtain Peace/Happiness. Simply the desire to express it in all areas of life.

@Nahm okay okay ? Just because I’ve heard people on here saying they “need” that in my experience, after realising the truth of your own being, nothing is needed, and then we are free to essentially do what we want as you said- sorry if I’m being too much on the point ?

@Mikael89 this is an amazing quote from a great teacher in Adyashanti. he puts it so beautifully!

@fridjonk Well I'm glad then, and I wish you nothing but happiness and peace after all isn't that what we are all after? The truth of our own being, abidance as The Absolute, the truth about reality and then the ever-expanding expansion and expression of this in our own lives and in all areas of lives. If I haven't already said this, I'm not denying the expansion and expression of this understanding in our own lives, for that work of course never ends until we die! I'm merely saying the 'seeking' aspect does come to an end where you arrive at the absolute joy of The Absolute. You arrive at THIS! And, it's fucking beautiful and magnificent! Well technically we were always THIS, we just simply weren't conscious as the quote below my name says. Love

@fridjonk Let's just agree to disagree, who knows maybe when I'm 25 ( ) I'll have the desire to try them, but right now I have 0! Yes I completely agree all of human history is simply God/The Absolute playing with himself, where most humans were not conscious of themselves as God hence all the turmoil we see, to me that isn't that radical at this point, I've heard it from various sources. After all if all is God, everything that has ever happened was done by God lost in his own creation? I'm not denying Leo goes incredibly deep in these trips, but honestly, the majority of teachers I recommend also talk about the stuff he does. You have to remember Psychedelics are very intense so make the insights seem more radical than they are due to the intensity of these trips. This means you can have these deep awakenings faster, but there's never any escaping the integration work! Plus at this point, being absolutely happy and at peace, knowing the truth of my own being and reality, the only way I can see it going deeper is in the human dimension through expression and integration but who knows!

@fridjonk You do know everything I'm saying comes from direct experience right? I'm not speaking conceptually. I am very intrigued to see where Leo goes in 5-10 years, I broke down his most recent video, showing how all of his teachings are that of the great masters, which is amazing, it just isn't unique. It's just his path is unique, and like I said I have ZERO issue with Psyches when used responsibly @Beginner Mind Exactly what I and every Self-Realized teacher out there is trying to say.

@dvdas I know, but genuinely I've been talking to several people about this, and It's actually worrying how freely drug use is advocated here. I'm literally linking scientific evidence of the danger to our brains and apparently that's just fear? And, exactly, saying 'it always goes deeper' to me just shows a lack of understanding, yes in the human dimension we can always embody deeper, however there is an END to seeking. That end is Absolute peace and happiness. @fridjonk No I didn't stop in my tracks, I had many awakenings and while there was still an inch of seeking I kept going, knowing it wasn't the final answer to which I was after, until seeking literally ended. It was like an explosion, the realization it had always been in front of me, right here, right now, The Self. That was a drop in the wind comment, you are always your own Guru. No, it doesn't the teaching literally is very simple, it's the mind that wants to make it complex. I'm not saying embodiment doesn't take 'time' and work, bit simply put THIS isn't complex, that's the cosmic joke. Yes, it's relatively proven scientifically our brains don't stop developing until we are 25, if you want to go ahead and risk that, then do it, but you shouldn't be recommending this to others if they're under 25. My friend ended up in a mental hospital twice after 2 LSD trips as he kept seeing his dead Father afterward. Nobody wants to speak about the dangers of these drugs when used irresponsibly. @Inliytened1 I am not talking about conceptual understanding but experiential understanding and experiential absolute peace and happiness like I keep saying. What could be conceptual about abiding with absolute peace and happiness? I have no issues with people exploring consciousness, my point is you can fully Self-Realize without the use of Psychedelics, and you don't NEED them to fully awaken, that's all I'm trying to say. If people want to go explore, go do it, as you say reality is infinite, I haven't once denied that. All I'm saying is seeking DOES come to an end, where you have ZERO NEED to seek, as you fully understand the truth of your own being, are absolutely happy and at peace. If you then want to explore other areas such as healing, go for it, my point is you can fully Awaken without drugs. I managed to realize the truth about my own being without them and so have 1000s of others, I'm also saying it can be done with Psyches and they can help. Everyone seems to think I'm anti-psyches, I'm really not lol. I'm just anti giving young people things that could fuck them up later in life. When used in the right setting and dosage they can be great. However deep the awakening is though, we always come back to THIS.

@Elham I drink it when I break my fast in my smoothie, so is the first thing I consume, how many tablespoons do you consume per day?