Nickyy

There's more to it than this. It sounds (forgive me if I'm wrong) like you're looking at it from one piece of the pie. Attraction is more than the words you say. More than techniques. It's mostly about being rooted in your body and feeling. Feeling every slight movement of what's happening in the present moment. Feeling the presence of the woman you are with on mostly an energetic level. It has very very little to do with anything else. This act of being rooted in the lower half of the body takes men away from their mind (away from the chatter) and puts awareness on her which creates spontenous relaxation in the feminine (it doesn't matter who's feminine, a mans feminine can be relaxed and aroused by a man who is on his purpose and clear with his intention) as I explained in my post about the most present man I'd ever come across. In this state you can say whatever you want, you can be nice or you can be cheeky. As long as you are not in your head, but instead are putting awareness into her and feeling her from your core, your heart centre, that is what all women are looking for in their relationships with the masculine. When you are in the now you are expressing the masculine which then opens up the feminine. That's the level it all works on.

Arc, you're doing what you need to do, and it's admirable that you're trying. It's all a learning curve. I appreciate your comments on the forum, it all helps.

Yeah I agree, black and white thinking that prevents grey areas to allow to flourish. After green we can allow ourselves to be less politically correct and use broad strokes and generalisations again to make a point. I believe this is a reclaimed aspect of healthy blue, but now without the fixation and idetification of being immersed in the blue structure and actually buying into black and white thinking. @whoareyou At the green stage this is no longer an issue as old blue fixed roles have been replaced by conscious teamwork that allows both male and female to switch between each role. However this can stagnate and has a way of destroying sexual polarity. In a 2nd tier relationship the male and female can play any role they like, but if they want to return to sexual polarity both partners need to rest in their native masculine or feminine and co-create from that place. It's usually the man of course who is more identified with the masculine and the women more identified with her feminine. However this is not always the case, and one of the beautiful things green brought to the table was this freedom to be a hetrosexual man who's actually got a feminine essence and allow him freedom to find a woman with a more masculine essence, and vice a versa, and so on for gay, lesbian and so on and so forth, and not have society look down on anyone for being who they are at their core. This concept applies to all genders, orientations and essences. 2nd tier sexuality takes what green achieved and evolves it out of the stagnation of its own ideology by reclaiming all of the energies of 1st tier without any of the identification.

@Jahmaine Im no expert obviously, take whatever I say with a pinch of salt, but I was compelled to offer a perspective. Aren't these kinds of things just differing cultural interpretations of the same thing? For me it all boils down to living in the present moment fully. I haven't studied much of the old traditional methods but they all look like they point at the same thing, but the language is much more archaic because these systems were developed in a pre scientific era.

I'm happy for you man ? and thank you for the book rec. also

Yes I hear ya. And the biggest problem men have is not listening to women properly, on an intellectual level and on an energetic level. Guys are taught in the pick up world to actively avoid listening to women because apparently women don't really know what they like in men. I for one would like to see the end of that mentality for good. Thanks for commenting ?

Actually that is a very good read. I recommend all guys read that book rather than watch RSD. They don't know what they are missing !

Thanks for sharing that here. I appreciate that. Allow me to offer a perspective . A second teir guy would step upto that, not afraid to use his energies to address why the woman he's in a relationship with is unhappy. A guy at maybe green would step aside, let her be in her mood without rocking the boat. Leave her alone to sort it out herself. Green has boundaries, but a 2nd tier guy crosses those boundaries from a place of love and not afraid to maybe use more assertive energies, not to get his partner to quit her complaining for his sake, but to pop her out of her negative bubble for her own sake, thus transforming her mood in ways that she couldn't have done herself. Which is sexually polarizing for them both. Maybe your friend's mum was unhappy because she wasn't really loved in the way she wanted to be and this caused her to complain in passive aggressive ways? The situation to me sounds matbe like sexual roles were reversed and that she was burning her masculine energy while he stood by and let her burn herself out. Who really knows what was going on in that situation? But the situation you presented does provide material to allow me to demonstrate a scenario in which a guy at a being stage would want to offer unconditional support to his partner and how to do it in an authentic masculine way asking for nothing in return. He grows in his masculine essence by her apparent "shit test", and she grows in her feminine essence by being opened up by masculine presence . Sexual polarity without the fixed identification of roles .

Yeah, but that takes a while to get there. The reason I wrote about him is because that's what the end result would be of having done a lot of work on oneself. I'm sure charles went through his fair share of polemics, arguments in his time. Self development is messy. But the point I'm making is that the pua or MGTOW ideal is not even close to what self development is all about

Are you refering to science and rationality in respect to the evolutionary biology / Darwinism perspective that the pua use? I don't even think they really understand evolutionary biology anyway, and merely cherry pick specific ideas from it to suit their biases. It's not even orange in the sense that it is peer reviewed knowledge.

Not knocking your views, I personally have no first hand experience of what you're saying, but that doesn't mean I can knock it. It's valid for the stage you're at. But for me I'd like to plant a seed to set the wheels in motion for a new paradigm for guys to adopt on the forum. Actualized.org is probably the only place now where people can get real information on how to grow in different lines of development. I believe what I'm proposing is a healthier way of looking at dating and male female attraction, at least healthier than what's out there at the moment in the orange centred dating coaching industries, the pickup macho culture and the MGTOW stuff. The stuff I'm suggesting here doesn't just address dating and meeting women, it spills into long term relationships, work relationships, every area of life. It's all connected. To live a pick up life and be a burger flipper is living a lie. To have your whole life aligned with your purpose and living every moment as an expression of that is in my opinion is the essence of everything leo is teaching. Attraction is just a byproduct of that kind of conscious lifestyle. So for me it's important to take one step at a time and try not to confuse people. I consider myself at least able to grasp some of these high personal development concepts, and that has taken me time to do that. Not everyone can grasp the things you're saying. We need to present the reality of male and female attraction in ways many people can understand. I think moving from distorted orange ideas about male female dynamics into healthier 2 me tier is a step in the right direction.

? Hence why it's better to drop all dating coaches and just do serious self development work. Emotional healing, meditation, that kind of thing. Be your own authority rather than absorb other person's beliefs, especially people who have an agenda, are incomplete , are possibly trying on a coaching role to make money. We can see now the pitfalls of this kind of reductionist approach

I met a guy (not directly, just indirectly) around 10 years ago on my first forum at ken Wilbers integral life website. The forum is shut now, but I think we can still access the forum archives and read the stuff on there. His name was Charles Bowling, a man in his 70's, who had been into personal development all of his life. There was something about him that was beyond anything I've experienced before and since. The closest word I can fathom is presence. But not just presence of being here in the now, but actually grounded in every single interaction he had on the forum. This manifested itself in an ability to understand your question accurately and be able to give you an answer that was suitable for your own level of understanding. He would answer every question put to him. He wouldn't dodge questions and he wouldn't tell lies, he only spoke about his direct experience. He wasn't green, he didn't buy into flatland equality, he had access to every stage of development and was not fixated at any particular stage When he replied to you you felt that he had taken enough time to absorb your perspective and then he would offer you something that he knew first hand would be of value. You could tell that he was done working on himself and that he had absolutely no agenda but to offer his experience and help you. His moment by moment purpose was aligned with his larger life purpose. You could feel his congruency coming across the text. It had the effect of my feminine feeling safe, nourished, understood, at home because he himself was at home. But not only did I feel like everything was ok with the world when I read his texts, I also felt the pull of challenge. He appealed to my masculine side like a father figure. Always leading me to take responsibility into my own hands. Time seemed to vanish when I read his posts. He had done the work integrating beige with body work and grounding into his body completely, and integrating purple using Jung's archetypes. He understood the crucial role of mentoring younger people (healthy blue) and the benefits and limits of orange with the sensitivity and spiritual reawakening of green. There are no role models like that in society. Many people try, but I don't think they truly understand what it means to integrate the spiral and truly live as a whole person. He definately was at being needs stage as he clearly only needed to contribute to others. A real master. Once you have someone like that in your life, even for a short time, it can really help you sort the fakes from the real. Unfortunately there are hardly any people at yellow and above, so yeah orange and it's views are the only thing guys have to go on.

What you're describing is nice guy syndrome ? The pickup community / men's movement, have swung to the opposite polarity by not really understanding what it actually means to grow up as a man.

Yes, fake confidence works, to a point. It's also the reason that these people get booted out of office when the public loses confidence in them.

That's why the pick up community and MGTOW are delusional.

You got it. Confidence that is put on is contrived, it is not authentic, because only true confidence comes with being in alignment with yourself. That's why women test men with emotional tests. To find out if he is worth time and energy. To see if he really is the Mack daddy he is presenting himself to be. When a guy knows why he is where he is in this moment, and it makes 100% sense to him, then whatever he's experiencing in his mind at that time in relation to a woman's behaviour has no effect, because he knows why she is in front of him and how she fits into his purpose. Purpose being the larger context. If a guy has no integrity with himself and he is just hanging around a woman for no reason then that's when neediness takes over, because he's with her to take from her rather than be there for a real reason that makes sense to him. And when a guy is trying to take from a woman then he gets very shaken up when he doesn't get what he wants. He becomes flaccid, like a limp penis lol Women don't like that kind of guy.

Your life purpose is engineering? Or do you mean that you perceive doing only things that support your life purpose as engineering? Can you clarify for us please? ? For example, participation in the forum, are you consciously aware of how your contributions here fit into your overall life purpose? Is your behaviour in every moment congruent with your life purpose? Life purpose doesn't have to be a career either. You can be a Gardner if that is what you know your calling is at this time.

Thanks for the rec. I'll check it out in a moment. You're right about that, some people think that shared interests or commonality are what relationships are really built on. It just so happens a lot of people get taken in by this mistake. Yes I agree. One way to view masculinity is congruence. If you have conflicts inside that have not been addressed then you're not going to be rooted in masculine. The "now". You're going to be fixated on those things in the back of your mind, or pushing them away for a later time. It's crucial to get these issues sorted out and to be present in the moment, being here fully, knowing what your purpose is in this moment and how whatever situation you are in fits into that purpose. What is your aim in this moment? Is what you're doing in this moment reflective and supportive of your larger purpose? Everyone (not just women) sense this alignment. There should be no complications. There should be transparency, straight forwardness, no self deception. No BS.No games. No "game". Gaming women is not a life purpose. Nobodies life purpose is ultimately centred around attracting women. The attraction comes from congruence . Trying to create attraction is not attractive. A guy can get used by women in those circumstances, but they won't trust that guy long term.

? Mind if I tweak your contribution? I wouldn't even go so far as saying goal oriented. I would say "present", which includes both receptivity and action in the same space.

No blame and criticism are distinctly two different things. I know what you're saying tho, yes from a subjective standpoint some criticism can be interpreted as blame, and some criticism can be an excuse to blame. But criticism and blame really are not the same thing.

Depends on the context

Criticism isn't blame tho. It's important not to get these two concepts mixed up. Blame is a "low consciousness" activity ?

I don't agree. Blame is unnecessary for life

I'm sorry no self, I can't get rid of the tag quoting you, it keeps popping up in my screen. @Preety_India Shit tests are anything. If a guy is thinking "this is good, this is bad" and is being controlled by his mind, he will also be controlled by her mind. Guys need to be rooted in the present moment and not taken over You know what I'm talking about ?