Nickyy

@Aquarius Really excellent, thanks for informing people of how not everyone can sustain this kind of diet. Low iron is a fucker to treat and once you're anemic sometimes it can't be reversed. Lots of studies also point to anemia being a prob in very strict plant based /vegan diets. The truth is that plant iron is harder to absorb and I wish people here who are fanatical vegans can learn how to be more objective about the while thing. Propaganda is a real issue in the diet wars.

@The Don Too green, too simplistic. Try to tease apart the healthy forms of orange and blue from the unhealthy. It's not "all" bad. Green draws a picture of misery in order so that it can dominate politics, academia, psychology. And stop reading Gabor Mate.

@The Don Pardon?

I know. If there was an urge to attempt suicide, then I'd stop myself and go to my doc. But just suicidal thoughts can be dealt with easily by just doing some of the things mentioned on here.

This is excellent advice. Embody a passion and a value. That is another way out of depression and anxiety. Nice one (Hint, try everything you can before taking medication. Meds are the last thing you want to get hooked on.)

Now can you channel your anger into a pursuit rather than playing the victim? There is a cool thread in the dating section about victim mentality and it has all the info one needs to fix it. Can't you think of something that you truly want to do with your life after school? (I would just push through the exams mate and get it over and done with)

A great discussion about toxic masculinity, green and integrated masculinity. Really worth the 45 minutes if you're serious about developing and learning more about masculinity than RSD can offer.

@Ryan_047 It's not that bad. These are just ideas. Especially the idea that you won't attain happiness, that happiness is an ideal. Well, happiness is the easy part. If you don't want to do meditation you can just observe your thoughts. What do you think happiness is? You may have some false beliefs about happiness. Take a look at them. Acknowledge them. Don't judge your ideas, just be aware and don't try to do anything about them. Just sit and become very present. Feel your breath flowing in and out of you. Feel the sensations in your body. Your legs, arms, feet touching the floor. Don't bypass your experience, feel your experience to the absolute fullest. There is this saying "come out of your head and come to your senses". Try it. You might find that you're just creating an illusion and have gotten caught up in it for so long that you mistake it for real living. Forget about the situation in your life and just pay attention to the now. Wait for a while when you're rooted in the present moment and then ask yourself sincerely what problem you have NOW, not in ten minutes, not tomorrow, not next week or next year's, but now. What problem do you have now? That's the key to being happy. There is no effort involved and nothing to do.

I would love for you to back your ideas up. Using fancy terms isn't enough to convince me that you know anything about the models were all trying to work out. You obviously have your own spin off that is unique to you. But if you observe closely even Leo doesnt accept extreme deviation from these models. He even bans people from the forum who don't agree with these models for growth. You came into this discussion with an off topic personal idea about green integration in an attempt to discredit what I know about integral theory and the limitations of green. Personal embodiment is nothing to do with a discussion on political ideology. I can see what you're trying to do, it's clearly personal, but you seem to hide disingenuously behind idiosyncratic ideas about non attachment and non duality that have 0 to do with integral or second tier as a way to hide that you are personally involved in trying to impose your own ideology into the forum.

You're mistaking a motivation to understand the right ideas of 2nd tier with a personal identification to them which you call *righteousness* Youre not actually seeing what my motivations are on this forum. If you think I'm here to be right that's upto you, but I'm actually more interested in using this model to grow. You're welcome to cook up any old shit you like, but trying to gaslight me by questioning my motives and understanding is a low move.

No, 2nd tier right Vs wrong isn't "binary". It's a meta view of what's right and wrong in the first tier and the solution to dealing with the problems created by first tier. Just a simple once over of SD will reveal this to you.

Oh, ok. So what you're suggesting is that there is absolutely no contraction at 2nd tier? So this is another idea that flies in the face of what all of the research tells us about 2nd tier congnition. If there is a shadow at 2nd tier, there must be a contraction. How can shadow material from 2nd tier get repressed and projected without a contraction? Can you explain in detailed terms how ken and most of the other researchers on 2nd tier lines of development are wrong?

Yep, some ideas are more right than wrong. 2nd tier isn't about non duality. That much should be obvious to someone who is truly at yellow or at least aware of the content of spiral dynamics. The very notion of right Vs wrong is re-established at 2nd tier as a reaction to greens core ideology that all perspectives are neither right or wrong. What you're trying to do is superimpose your own "non dual ideas" into the yellow structure. Which is absurd, because yellow by its nature is about describing what is wrong about 1st tier structures and what is right about them. You can check spiral dynamics and any of Ken's books yourself to verify this.

I asked you if I should appeal to your authority because It's clear that you want to tell me that your ideas about my experience of life and my own integration of those experiences are more valid than my own. So should I accept your ideas about my private life and experience or should I ask Leo for a second opinion? Simple question

Actually, if you're up for it I'd love to debate you on this subject. For a start, I'm not defending my ideas. I'm talking about directly accurately conveying what itngeral theory is, and what spiral dynamics research actually tells us. Nobody I've ever seen in this 2nd tier structure has said that 2nd tier is transpersonal. Where did you get this idea from?

So I should appeal to your authority instead?

I think ill stick with what I've researched so far. Your ideas are, let's say, unique to say the least. That's the beauty of having different teachers. We can cross reference ideas and spot charlatans if we feel were being manipulated

@Serotoninluv Second teir isn't transpersonal. Where do you cook that idea up? 2nd tier is personal . It's just the integration of the human being without identification at any 1st tier structure. Remember I've spent years on forums. My first forum was at integral life 10 years ago

Its ok. I've emailed leo to ask him directly what activism work he himself has done to assimilate "green" to see if this is an actual thing or just you trying to impose your ideology onto the forum. Will report back when I get more clarity from him. At this point you're welcome you think whatever you like.

@Leo GuraLeo, have you done any of this "green" embodiment work that this fella is talking about? Seems like yours and his ideas are incompatible

I'm well aware of the advantages of green. I live in the UK and a multicultural city. I did my fair share of activism and psychotherapy. At this point I've just had enough of it. Most people considering integral ideas have also had enough of it

@Apparition of Jack Sure, Relativism is a philosophical idea that all perspectives are valid because all perspectives are relative to each other. Now this sounds very nice and spritual and fair, and it has brought some very healthy changes to society as a result. But relativism is a self refuting idea because it doesn't see that itself is a hierarchical idea that is seeking dominance as a perspective. Careful observation of how green has worked it's way into the collective consciousness over the last 60 years since it reached a critical tipping point will show you that with the light side of green comes a dark side. Which we are now becoming acutely aware of. It is 1st tier because it's still not really relativistic , it's just another values structure that thinks it's the only values structure that represents truth. Therefore by default relativism cannot deal with 1st tier problems because it IS part of the the problem, and is the most dangerous. It's a Woolf in sheep's clothing. We can never allow green to be the dominating political ideology because it will regress to red tribalism and prevent the integration of a healthy spiral. Green is its own worst enemy

Who mentioned SJWs? It's very difficult to have a discussion with someone who can't see that I know what green is. We're operating on different wave lengths at this point. I'm not talking about green and it's developed structure and manifestations. I'm refering to its core ideology. When you truly understand what green is and how one philosophical idea of relativism supports a whole separate structure of consciousness, you will understand that it's logically absurd and self refuting. When you get to grips with green as an idea that orgnaizes other ideas in the psyches of people you will see how dangerous it is. Until then all you have is cheesy images and traits and definable social policies to base your argument off

Would it? I think that the cutting edge who are able to understand red blue orange and green from the inside and speak their languages is the least threatening and most inclusive way of doing politics. Nobody understands yellow, but the point is not to understand yellow, the point is yellow understands the lower memes and thus has the power to create change in them. We have never had an idea like this in our entire history, a values system that isn't in direct competition with all other values system, but takes what works from each meme and puts it to work for the whole system. An integral leader would be able to address the values of all of the memes. Someone at green only resonates with people at green. So if green is in the minority then a green leadership is not going to happen. The same goes for trump, orange are loving trump because he's handing whats left of government and democracy over to corporate capitalists, the 1% while he bullshits to the American public by pretending to appeal to their values. Orange and blue people are being taken a ride into legal slavery while orange obliterates all competition and political threat. But this isn't orange itself, it's just orange gone mad. Orange in and of itself is not a bad thing. Just like green and blue in and of itself is not a bad thing. The bad thing is when all of these memes are trying to place themselves as the dominant ideology. Yellow is going to appeal to all values and present ideas that work for all values, which no 1st tier system is capable of. If you're married to the idea that you need collective stability in green before you can move to yellow then you might want to address that belief. It's obvious that green is never going to actually be the dominant force because as you say the majority don't resonate with it. People individually will be able to develop into green organically without a green political dominance. There will be no collective green stability because when you understand green you will see that it's only real agenda is to turn everything into green. It's delusional because it doesn't care about development . It doesn't see that it's standing on the shoulders of giants. It's a very dangerous political ideology from the standpoint of the big picture.

You're actually on the cusp of thinking integrally. You understand that blue and orange are essential aspects of the system. All you need to recognize is that there are healthy expressions and unhealthy expressions of blue and orange, and that what's needed isn't just a move to green, but a yellow integral big picture overseeing the whole event. Yellow will reform blue and orange and force it to serve the whole system. Green by itself cannot do that because it has it's own agenda. In other words it's not that blue and orange are out of date, it's that they have become bullies and don't know their rightful place in the system. They need education from a yellow perspective. Think of yellow as the cosmic police force of politics