Thought Art

What we should be careful not to do, which I did a few times is over generalizing a historical pattern of sex based roles as rigid rules. Human survival is too complex for that. Even if generally men hunted women raised babies of course that’s not a whole picture and can be misleading.

@Elliott Jared Diamond here. AMA No, but I can say it with high level of certainty based on common knowledge, common sense AND the research I just looked at online. We all basically know that already from what we were taught in school and in our cultures. What I am saying is the common rule, while acknowledging it’s not universal. But, of course there is nuances, examples that don’t follow the "rule", etc. We will find conflicting studies in this space too. I’m willing to take in more views, adjust over time and be wrong. But, I think what I’m saying holds up with lots of evidence…

I will say, in most tribes but not all. Men were the primary (note primary) hunters. In fact most have only history or men hunting according to some researchers. You’ll find a variety of roles and shared roles in tribes and some (though the large minority) had female hunters where they were primary hunters. Edit: My current understanding is:

@Elliott Well, I was wrong. What I said is generally true but not universal. Most people would be satisfied to bring a correction to my attention and have me acknowledge it, adjust my views and contributions to the conversation. But, not you. Your clinging onto it as if I was a liar. That is strange behaviour. This is a casual chat board. Part of casual speech includes being a bit sloppy. Part of the reason I share a view is to see how others respond and to improve my understanding. If you wanna hold on the lie thing. I see that and I’ll conclude speaking to you unless you wanna contribute to the thread meaningfully. A liar would typically double down and not acknowledge they were wrong. Note, I did not do that. My universal statement was not true. Only partially true.

This is a pretty sprawling subject, sometimes I make a post from a wider lens, and sometimes I am too myopic, universal and ideological in a given statement though in my more broad understanding and openness to the possibility that humans survival in many unique ways I am unaware of. I am more interested in knowing what’s true than being right. I am humble in this. Human survival is more intelligent than my initial theories or partial perspectives. I will be wrong on many things. But, lying is not what I’m doing when I am wrong. Again, what is COMMON and what is UNIVERSAL, is so important here. Female hunters exist but are they COMMON? Idk. We would need more research.

@Elliott Not how lies work man. You have an attitudinal approach to these things which is distasteful. You should be aware that saying a view of mine is a lie or retarded is an unfriendly, and disingenuous way of relating to me here. You discovered example of female hunters which I didn’t know. Thanks for sharing that! You are misusing the term liar. And when you use it you are creating unnecessary conflicts. Your also accusing me of lying, which isn’t true. And your ignoring my more nuanced posts where I stress my humility and sharing of more nuanced views of the subject. I’m aware of female hunters and I even acknowledged them in prior posts. Forgive me that I made a too universal of a statement in one of my posts.

@oOo I don’t know what your saying? We’ve largely contested the article have you read any of the responses? Am I wrong?

@Elliott No, define a lie for me. Use your words.

In order for us to explore these subjects it so important for us to bounce off one another. We all can bring value to improving our understanding of how tribes survived, what men and women are and do. I am willing to change my views, and improve. Men and women are equal. Yet, we have differences and different survival considerations and challenges today all around the world. My wish is for humans to strive and to be well. I shared some heavy material here in an earlier post because I know those things happen in some places and I want you to know I didn’t share it lightly.

@Elliott 😄 Do you know what a lie is?

I came across some terms I like, there is a distinction between "common division of labour" and "universal division of labour". We should be wary to say what is common for men and women in tribes, and what was universal. There are tasks in the societies which are predominantly male, some that were highly variable (small game, gathering, etc) and other tasks that were predominantly female. Some tasks were seasonal, politically contextual, etc. This according to a study by George Murdock and Caterina Provost’s 1973 where they analyzed 185 different societies. (Table from CHATGPT) Activity General historical pattern Large-game hunting Strongly male Warfare and armed defence Strongly male Metalworking Strongly male Tree cutting and heavy lumber work Strongly male House construction Variable, often male Small-game hunting Variable Fishing Variable, often male Farming and gardening Frequently shared Gathering wild plants Predominantly female Food preparation Strongly female Childcare Strongly female Clothing and textile production Often female (End of ChatGPT) These societies had many tasks to do, and we should be wary to say men hunt, women babies. As that’s not what evidence shows. It was more complex.

@Elliott I may be wrong, but I’m not lying or retarded. Stop being an asshole! No one wants to talk to an asshole. I can push back on your claims too, I just looked up some of them showing your wrong. So, we have a challenging place to figure out what’s true.

@Elliott Okay RETARDED? Come on show me some respect. However, going back to the core discussion, I think we are all kinds wrong and right on this. Men and women likely both hunted and gathered plants, small animals and fish at times. Men larger game, and there also as likely a split and major social differences. Not all tribes had the same social dynamics too. This is complicated! I have to remain open.

Yeah but she will never beat the top male players. She maybe ranks 100th when compared to men. She may beat some pros but not the top, and not consistently enough to be the best man. There are exceptional women at sports. Though, notice how they usually don’t have kids during that time, live in a nation with wealth directed towards sport, have unique 1 in a billion genes etc. Though, athletes aren’t good examples of how populations of women survived in ancient pressure cookers. Read about indigenous tribes of the Americas, of Africa. Men were BRUTAL. Women really had to survive with men. Sometimes despite them, on individual basis. Women did not hunt primarily during this time. They did house holding, raised babies, etc. Perhaps some gathering tasks and I’m sure some other things that were required at that time more economically. Men and women are equal, but asymmetrical.

Well this is it.

The best Ultra marathon runner is a woman I believe. However, in all tribes we see today which are not modernized men are the hunters. Being buried with something like tools is interesting, but does not prove in actuality why they were buried with those tools.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1792600305421457/?fs=e&fs=e Somehow this is related to limitations of science.

It’s interesting to watch Survivor in the seasons when men and women are separated and when they eventually mix. Individuals come with different capacities from both sexes, and it’s clear they can both generally survive. Women can actually do really well in the challenges and in survival. They shouldn’t be entirely discounted physically. But when it’s just all men or all women there are issues with those groups. When they mix, you see the asymmetrical complimentary skills, hormones, etc. Men and women are a unit, a team and a community. They are suited towards different things and that’s why nature has a male, and a females of the SAME species. Of course, there is large variety in individuals in general. But, men and women exist because they aren’t the same thing. I remember this one woman in a Survivor season when she was on an all girls team sick, and very weak wanting to leave. As soon as they mixed with the men she latched onto a man and was healthy, energetic and very competitive. Interesting! We need each other. This really is a complex space. However, in all traditional societies for the most part in tribes men do the hunting. This is there function. CAN a woman successfully hunt? Yeah. But, that’s not typically the role that naturally happens. Biological differences are functional and utilitarian for human survival and striving. Modern men and women are raised in an artificial survival scheme humans have created. So, this is interesting to think about too. I think there is a demonization of masculinity and also a desire that women be masculine in these ideological groups. It’s really quite strange and twisted.

@Alexop As a young person I had to wade my way through so many stupid ideologies and mind viruses. Not just in my own sense making but that of those ideologues who attack and “cancel” those who don’t buy their BS. I am much more comfortable now, and I think a lot of people are with standing more firm in choosing their own sense making on this. This is one of the good things I think Jordan Peterson contributed to as well.

I remember a guy saying women and men have the same skeletons. That is when I decided this gender science stuff is bullshit and I have to form my own opinion.

Science shows women have bigger wangs

You may need to watch in YouTube. Warning, graphic.

Well, that’s not relevant really to what I said but thanks. Solipsism isn’t about if or not it benefits you or your family it is not intended to be a utilitarian contemplation but one of truth seeking. The question isn’t if it’s useful but if it’s true.