Thought Art

They did touch on it. But not in the depth and focus I learned it with my tutor. I’ve shared the system I used in this thread. I did not learn this at school. We of course learn the sounds of letters, and things. But, not to the degree of how I learned in tutoring. I recall their being an emphasis on sight reading over phonetics. That is why my tutor actually quit being a teaching to then teach phonetics. I gotta go though! I may have to ban myself for the rest of the week to focus.

@Elliott Yes, it’s important to recall that learning a language comes in many forms and types of learning. This doesn’t negate that English is a phonetic system. It may have similar sounding words, and the occasional exception. But, by and large it’s a phonetic system with rules on how words are spelled and how they sound. Learning that helps you learn English to a higher level. You can’t “decode it” alone with phonetics. But phonetics offers a high degree of fluency to those who learn it, in combination with other forms of learning.

Did I memorize the Alphabet? Did I memorize the phonetics? Did I memorize similar sounding words? Sure. Memory is part of learning. Learning phonetics of English offers a higher degree of literacy than just memorizing how words are spelt. The letters in English all make unique sounds, and there are certain combination of letters than make sounds. By learning these you can read most words and spell most words by hearing. English isn’t random… it’s a phonetic system.

Not brute memory. As I can apply the aspects I’ve memorized and phonetics. Learning is more complicated than any single system. This is what Leo is teaching right now with his current video series. So instead of trying to prove I don’t memorize as all you should assume I’ve learned my language through a variety of ways including aspects of memorizing, phonetics, etc…. Different aspects of language make use of different aspects of intelligence. So, do I remember that deer and dear are spelled differently though memory? Well yes. But, I also memorize the phonetic rules too. But, I don’t take time looking up words and memorizing how they are spelt 99% of the time because… I did not learn to read and write like that. And, I’m a native English speaker. So phonetics wasn’t how I learned English but how I learned to read and write my own language. My own language which is a phonetic system… which doesn’t require gross memorizing as it was designed phonetically.

@Elliott Generally, yes with a high degree of accuracy. I can’t recall memorizing words very often, as I did not learn to read and write that way. Also, I am a native English speaker and could speak English before I could read and write it.

@Elliott After knowing English for decades I have of course the requisite variety to memorize words… but, when I type out sentences I am sounding things out words phonetically in my head. If you can learn to write a sentence you can learn the logic within human words. Okay! Enough of the Forum today. If phonetics are interesting to you I’m sure you can study it in more depth. Peace

@Elliott I would assume I can write at a university level as I have done so in the past. This isn’t about me, but phonetics.

@Elliott context. Some words sound the same. That doesn’t disprove phonetics hahaha. All those words still follow English phonetic logic. Context is important in all languages that have more than one word with the same sound. In spelling contests it’s common to ask for the word to be used in a sentence.

@Elliott No, you can use phonetics while reading. It’s taught to kids to learn to read and write. I as I write and read am always using phonetics. I sound out my words as I write to you phonetics brought me from a grade 1 reading level to a grade 12 reading level after 2 years of tutoring when I was in grade 5. It’s not cheating it’s actually reading English. English is a phonetic language. Whether you are reading writing it’s the same phonetic system. By learning phonetics you learn to spell and read words. Of course grammar and definitions are largest aspects of grasping the whole language.

@DocWatts Perhaps not essential as I suspect many adults can’t… but it’s very very powerful.

@Elliott If you are able to sound out every single word while reading a book with many words you’ve never seen before it makes it a lot easier because you can sound out the word, and keep reading for deeper context. Being able to read every words makes things way easier. When I speak of phonetics I also speak of the spelling of the word instead of the memorizing of words. This means for example a word with “ology” you could know it’s a study of something. But, the main skill in learning phonetics is being able to spell any word you hear with high accuracy and being able to read and sound out every word. This is a more robust and complete form of reading and writing.

No, they need not be in your library. With phonetics you could sound out and pronounce all his words he shared without knowing the word prior or even its meaning.

I wasn’t claiming with phonetics alone you can know what every words means. But you can sound it out, and if a word uses root words or other patterns it’s easier to recognize them making it easier to know what it means. Obviously, like I’ve shared definitions are important especially for these rare words.

I am sure you can learn that way. Me, my sister, brother and my sisters boyfriend all struggled to learn to read the way you describe. We all were tutored to learn with phonetics. Learning phonetics allowed me to read at a grade 12+ level by grade 6. Phonetics provided a deeper mastery and intuitive understanding of how English letters and phonetics words actually work. This meant I don’t memorize words at all I know how to spell just from hearing it. And, apparently studies back me up. However, I assume most adults don’t know English phonetics like you. I’m sure after massive exposure to words they over time developed intuitive pattern recognition. However, your previous comment of how English letters are non-sensical is revealing of how it isn’t the case you actually understand how English letters works. When, I actually do because I learned it. We are both right to varying degrees. However, I stand my understanding based on phonetics is superior.

This is false, and doesn't take much to show that... So no, what you are saying is false. Also, English isn't chinese our words aren't Kanji. You could treat them as such but you are limiting your understanding of the language.

Even learning that "tion" makes a Shun sound, is part of the phonetics for example. Emotion.

Yes They would. Definitions are still required.

@Elliott For example, Let's say I am reading a book and I see a word I have never seen before. I can read it perfectly because I know what the combination of letters does in English. So I can read it and then know what word it is, and probably what it means basically.

Yes, at a deeper level phonetics also helps with understanding the meaning of words too.

When I sound it out I know how to spell it I mean. I mean sounding out the words to spell. Also to read, yeah. Because I know what the letters and combination of letters sounds like I can read and write through spelling things out. I sound out the words to read and spell. Instead of memorizing words, I know what the letters and combination of letters sounds like. I have a literacy of not just sentences of words, but the sentence structure WITHIN the words.

It's weird though, I can't seem to find the system of symbols with a basic google search. I would like to remember the system I learned in my tutoring as it was a specific one. Edit: I asked what system it was to my sister's boyfiend because he apparently learned the same one but it doesn't look that familiar but this could be it here. Lindamood Phenome Sequencing https://ganderpublishing.com/pages/program/lips

@DocWatts Yes, my tutor taught me this. Thank you for clarifying. My tutoring in phonetics was one of the best things my mother ever did for me. I'll always be grateful for that. I wouldn't be able to read without it. The consequences of a lot of people (including Leo apparently) not knowing how to read and write English properly is pretty scary. Of course, they can write properly, but they don't really understand how the words make the sounds they make! What the fuck. It really blows my mind to think how many different ways there could be of grasping a language.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read you say. However, I acknowledge it's your second language and you learned it in the US education system. But, what you have said here and how limited your understanding of English is pretty amazing.

When I read what you wrote it seems like you are contradicting yourself. Just to be clear are your saying that sounding words out is the wrong way to teach kids to read? Because I think I have a unique perspective on this. I recall learning to spell words out in school. I also recall really struggling to learn to read until about grade 4 I could barely read anything at all. This was until I began receiving 1 on 1 tutoring my mother began paying for for me. What actually made the big difference for me was learning a phonetic library, which I think is counter to what you and Leo are saying. What ultimately helped me learn to read, and HIGHLY accelerated my reading in a short period of time (I was assessed in grade 6 to have a grade 12 reading level) was that I learned to read words sounding them out and learning a very detailed phonetic alphabet which included mouth shapes etc on these little cards with associated sounds and the letters. This highly, highly accelerated my ability to read and write English and has left with me a very strong intuition on how to spell and read English words that simply memorizing would never do. @Leo Gura My direct experience shows what you are saying to be wrong. There are very consistent phonetic rules in English that make sounding out words the right way to go. However, I noticed very stark differences in teaching this in the class room vs how I learned it in my 1 on 1 tutoring. How it is taught in the classroom I recall didn't not provide the phonetic library I was showed in my tutoring sessions. There phonetic system that exists in English, but not in languages like Chinese. So you are really wrong on that. After receiving this tutoring I also no longer had to practice for spelling tests and essentially aced them but cause I knew how to spell every single word based on it's sound and phonetics. Now that I am older I don't have explicit memory of these phonetic cards etc... but a highly attuned intuition. I do not memorize words in English I sound them out. Every single one even as I write this.

Creating my journal.