Thought Art

Stay well everyone, I will focus on my project here. 1,2,3,4!!!

No one is forced to watch the videos or interact on this web form. The internet is a huge place with lots of spiritual teachers…. You can choose things you know. You’re a free person. How does non-duality relate to God? Or Shiva, as is another name. If you think Non-duality is different than present movement experience with time passing by, other people to talk to, pain, different religions, etc… you don’t get it.

If someone did awaken to realize they were God, in a complete state of omnipresent consciousness… they would be the most conscious thing in the universe. If anyone did this, that would be true. This is only true if it’s possible, if that’s the true nature of reality, consciousness and if you are truly God. Only by actually becoming God, can someone truly know God due to its ontological nature. If God is true, and the big bang is not then the true science would have to include God, Awakening and Infinity. True understanding would have to close the gap between consciousness and the origin of consciousness. Reality that created itself would have to remerge into to completely understand and awaken to itself that its what it is and always has been. Then, if someone had done more philosophical work at a deeper, more broad level awakened and then returned to human consciousness they would be able to articulate this Oneness, this omnipresent truth of the fundamental nature of reality to others who are still in the dream. But, they could only communicate with with their finite psychology, limited human understanding, biases, imperfections, survival considerations, social contexts, etc. Other humans with no deep philosophical, meditative, and awakening experience would find that individual extremely threatening. They would accuse him of all sorts of things. If this is possible. But belief or disbelief isn’t good enough. If this is true, that it’s possible and can be done by most humans… but, we have never considered this widely as a species it’s surely going to be controversial because it would suggest that reality is by design not to expose us to our true nature as God. Though, over time it was built in to awaken of one chose to do this. If it’s true. I can see that being the case. There is clearly an intelligent design to human life with lots of relative spiritual teachings, beliefs, states, religions, etc. All this is good. Finite relative reality is good. Being God all the time, being totally aware of this isn’t all it’s cut out to be forever. It’s good to sleep because I, we, have forever…. Forever. So, enjoy the dream of being human, of debating, of trying to make sense of everything and the drama. It’s all here for us to experience. But, if it’s not possible then it’s false. And, someone could think they experienced this but didn’t and it could still ultimately be true. But, how do we know what is true about the fundamental nature of reality, mind, consciousness, the origin of existence, the meaning of life, etc? Can we take any other humans word for this? Even Leo’s? No. If we don’t want to pick up beliefs than we simply can’t know. So what is true that requires not believing? How does state of consciousness, which is prior to belief play into that? Expecting a guy on YouTube to be a saint, to never make a mistake, to make you feel good, when he admits to being an asshole makes no sense. I am a fan of the videos. I’m not convinced of it all being accurate. But, it’s pretty good. It helps me avoid a lot of illusion, make sense of how to approach the big picture. But, it’s a human doing it. Sooo…. I don’t expect perfection. These videos and these interactions with one man, can’t be how you go about spirituality in its entirety. Reality is brutish, it’s twisted its kind and loving but also war and bombs and sickness. You have to contend with this brutal, twisted reality we all share. All humans are in this game of survival and all by definition of being finite will have limitations, corruptions, ego, times when they aren’t kind to you, times when they don’t tickle you. Yes, many spiritual teachers are more sweet, kind, and considerate in how they speak. Leo is not like that. He has never been like that. Yet, you choose on your own free will to interact with him. Why? I am okay with people being offended by Leo. I don’t really care about that. His actions aren’t malicious in my view. People may never agree with me, and I’m fine with that. But, if you think I’m not a warrior you are wrong. I’m kind, I’m considerate. But, I am not nice. This is a moment in time. Humans are not fully evolved. We still have religions and belief systems held together by survival, symbolic understanding and feelings emotions and comfort. None of that is true. We have a science full of corruption, religions developed by ancient tribes who still hold human kind. Is human evolution some sweet and pretty little thing? Is that how you expect it to go? No. It’s going to be ugly and confusing and challenging. Painful. Scary. Brutish often. Even in this work, people have to have backbones against those with gross double standards.

Having read, listened to and devoured many sources over the years has actually made me respect Leo’s body of work more… not less. Not 100% of it, and not him on a personal level. But, his body of work is really interesting and valuable. This is me today, and I give myself permission completely to be wrong and correct as I love forward in time. Something I struggle with is that I find every human source questionable including Leo. Reality is too complex. Ever human is fallible and cannot be trusted with truth.

@zurew That is fair, I recall him admitting he was wrong about the camera. But, not the Alien state of consciousness. Umm, I don’t know. If I knew nothing about someone and was shown only a small amount of context especially the negative I’d probably view it negatively. For example, I view teal swan negatively but I know little about her. @Natasha Tori Maru That’s fair, and good job in those circumstances. I’ve been on the forum for years and rarely share that. I wouldn’t make it 10,000 plus posts if I was the kind of person to fly off the handle. It’s very rare, and I felt I could put that energy into my long and nuanced post. You aren’t better than me for not showing anger in those circumstances. Anger isn’t bad. Have you ever told someone to fuck off? Sometimes this is a good way to about something. It’s rare, and I would never do it without broader acknowledgement of a generalized respect. I’m also a man, and not a woman. And, at work I wouldn’t speak like how I may speak to people generally on this forum. Survival of course and context is relevant to how I choose to express myself. In my field telling someone to fuck off, can make you closer to them. I work with men and my work is dangerous and we depend on each other.

That quote isn’t directly related to that particular claim though. @Osaid haha, I recall him saying he was wrong. Is it cult like? Is it bad that he says certain things? I mean, I can see how people interpret that. But, that’s a perspective. I don’t think it’s totally true. That the only reason he says it is to control you. But, I’m gonna wade in this water. To me, someone could be enlightened or awakened and then what is obvious to them isn’t obvious to someone else as a possibility. How do you know for sure? It could be bad, it could be that he is teaching something. You don’t know… but, you are defending yourself. Which may be wise. No teacher swings a batting average of 100%. How do we separate the noise from the signal? The useful insights from the Leo ego?

Haha, yeah he was struggling to integrate that trip. Embarrassing, but I think he has since admitted this wrong.

Do you guys ever put yourself in his shoes dealing with everyone on this forum? What he said isn’t bad. You are looking for things to demonize him 😄. But yeah, who knows. I’m enjoying all this.

@Carl-Richard Okay, so not Actualized teachings right? Leo has a crass, asshole like personality. He is highly disagreeable. Anyone who has been around him long enough knows this. This idea a spiritual teacher needs to make you feel good all the time I think is false. Vernon Howard taught me that.

@Carl-Richard Doomsday ideations? I’ve not come accross this here. Where is that from?

Maybe, 🤔… Yeah, he could rehash this all again for you. Or, he could choose not too… I feel like he has made his views clear…?

@Carl-Richard I read your list of quotes and I don’t have an issue with them. I’ve seen and observed many of the minds in this forum and in society. They don’t hold up to Leo’s articulation of things. He is one of the smartest most profound people on earth. You can accuse me of being in a cult for that opinion… but it’s honest to me. His posts don’t seem abusive to me. I haven’t seen anyone who understands God, I don’t think anyone here is awake and based on what many spiritual teachers say they don’t seem to be awake either. But, I have to even question myself on this. Simply based on my experiences and the things those teachers teach they address many things but perhaps not awakening. Is that a problem? Like I said, I learn and listen to many teachers. I’m willing to find someone who offers more than Leo on these subjects. I’m willing to prove Leo wrong. I’m willing to admit when I’m not sure. I just don’t see Leo’s post as abuse. If you are awake you don’t need Leo or someone else to confirm it. I’ve seen a lot of people get banned here over the years from arguing with Leo on these topics and showing closed mindedness. Is that abuse? Can you point me directly to those bans and their reasons?

@Carl-Richard “Say that to the 8 or more people who were banned in a short time frame for merely disagreeing on him being the most awake person in existence or his methods for getting there“ Is this for sure truly why they were banned? Was it truly that they denied him being the most awakened being? I’ve seen many people on here question that openly, and say many other things about him openly. “In this thread, I gave a definition of a cult and Leo said "you speak of things you don't even understand" and "it is shameful that I even need to explain this to anyone here". In the other cult thread, I asked him about his definition of a cult and what he thought mind control is, and he said I don't understand what I'm talking about and that I'm disrespectful for even considering entertaining the topic and that I don't deserve his teachings.” Could it be he really thinks that’s that case? That he does find it disrespectful given his definition of a cult and efforts to avoid this?

Notice how when you fall into bitterness about spirituality, the world, this forum, reality, etc how you aren’t doing the work to make a good life. How you are not socializing, exercising, building something, learning new things and focusing your attention on your own life and direct experience. I think the joy and beauty of life comes from doing our own work and striving the best we can in our own lives. We can easily fall into consumption, distraction and doom and gloom. (Which I have done a lot). But, over time as we continue to work, study, build skills, improve our lives and connect with people life can beautiful.

@zurew Yes, I wanna cut through other peoples opinions ultimately. It’s important to do so, and you bring up lots of strong points to consider. Adding me to a list? Fuck off. Actualized should be deconstructed and questioned because if not it is a trap. 🪤 Even if not like intentional or malicious, cult like following of actualized should be questions and brought up. Claims like being the most awakened thing is the universe should be red flags to everyone. As well as Leo being an Alien, or whatever. Leo’s tendency to stand and tell people if there trips are accurate or not. All these things are murky and should be questioned. But, at the same time, anger is there for a reason. Sometimes it has to cut through. But, should be reflected on if it’s a deception mechanism. As a general rule, and to forum guidelines I don’t lash out like that. But, sometimes I express it. I’ve been here for a long time. I know I can be held accountable to swearing. But, also I choose this time to allow that expression. Whatever is true, is true. That’s a good thing I think. 🤔

It’s a general statement. If my learning from a variety of teachers is a cult to you, I think you are wrong, and I take offense to it after awhile. Sometimes people need to be told fuck you. But, time for me to step back from this thread and return to it later with more breadth.

Just a regular crabster

And it’s hard not to, because we all know so little. But, I think human growth requires this dance between learning, testing, adopting, questioning, getting direct experience, changing views and opinions, deciding what to hold on to and what to let go, being confused, being lost, not knowing, being proven right or wrong, recontextualizing, realizing some issues have no easy truth, realizing how the ball is white on one side black on the other. Etc etc etc. Holding any figure up on a pedestal will ultimately collapse. Reality is Truth, and what is true will be true and it will be non negotiable to someone who found it. Not every part of reality exists on the level of relative truth, and some times a teacher won’t budge if they have conviction of something. To others observing that individual they can’t ever truly know what implicit understanding that person has or if it is true. Then there is the issue of other people’s level of education, their brain and cognitive capacity, their up bringing and culture, survival needs, assumptions, beliefs, maturity, mental health, open mindedness, discernment, etc…. What is really True? Is it Leo???? No, come the fuck on guys. Leo is a relative Truth. We are in a deep existential bind. You swim in an ocean of overwhelming complexity and confusion. Humans live in this epistemic mess and nightmare. Calling this a cult, missing the point of the work Leo has tried to do despite being a finite human is sad. I think it’s overall a healthy conversation and Leo can grow as a teacher in this field. But, calling anyone who is learning from this particular teacher “in a cult”, I don’t consider is accurate. There ultimately isn’t, and cannot be a safety net for people misusing, believing, following, idolizing, etc. No one out there is going to protect you but you. Truth seeking is uncharted waters. Your human mind and psychology will try to grasp on to so many things. But, at the end of the day so you really know?!

“If you think that its too retarded or that its too much to ask from Leo to stop making definitive comments about other people's awakenings and to stop completely undermining their ability to make that judgement themselves then go ahead my guy, you do you and you can freely use whatever different definition you want to use“ This is true. I recall having a 5meodmt trip and was like… “It was something but was it God? Was it infinity?” And Leo replied like “It’s infinity!!!!”… My response to that is still… yeah I’ve had profound experiences in it. But, I truly, totally, don’t understand it. And, I have more trips that would be required to do so. And, I can let Leo influence me, or Martin Ball or anyone else. I find when I’m not in that state that I’m distant from it, and it seems foreign and unrelated to my experience. I know the experience is profound, divine and I recall grasping that reality is infinite, that it’s mind, that qualia is God, and a realization of solipsism. But, it’s gonna take more trips for me, more contemplation, meditation, and true spiritual work to come to my own knowing. Leo’s proclaimations are interesting, other schools of spirituality and teachers provide useful concepts. But, I know ultimately I have to conclude what is true for me. I’m not gonna be pressured or brainwashed by Leo, or any other teacher. NN-DMT though, is u deniable in what it reveals about the nature of consciousness and reality. It’s literally an infinite mind. Infinite imagination is my conclusion from it. I have more work to do in my contemplative work, my spiritual maturity and developing my own epistemic foundation free from anyone else’s dogma, personality or bullshit. Everyone on this forum caught in their petty fucking bullshit too is beside the point of why I am here. Leo is the only teacher I’ve come across who taught me powerful principles all distilled into a single catalog and I’m grateful for that. But, I have to question everything. I have to build my own model, have my own experiences and awakening and live my own life. A challenge is I’ve spent hundreds of hours listening to Leo.. but also others like Osho, Lee Holden, Lester Levonson, eckhart Tolle, Sadhguru, and many others. I’ve read deep and profound non-dual books and dialogues like that of Ramana Maharishi, and Abn Arabi. I deeply enjoy these non-dual works. I’ve read and will continue to read Peter Ralston, Buddhist texts and books and that of Taoism. I like Bryan Johnson, learning about it health, fitness, different cultures, philosophy, etc. All of human knowledge interests me. Consciousness interests me, awakening does too and I’ve read various teachers on this subject. You wanna accuse me of being a small brain cult follower? Go fuck yourself you complete moron. Fuck you. You can put me into a box in your own mind but I don’t frankly care. I’m gonna keep learning, studying, growing and maturing and I don’t give a fuck about morons who don’t get the fucking picture of what we are doing here. Leo tries but can do better at encouraging followers of his work on their own contemplations. I think as a teacher he could improve by encouraging my own conclusion instead of just blurting this view. Leo doesn’t have enough data about anyone here to truly guide them on the forum, generally, in a lot of circumstances. There are serious flaws and challenges in all teachers and systems for learning. Get used to it. We are all lost out in the same sea.

@UnbornTao What list?

Bow dowwwwwwn

Preachhhhh

Naps are da Vinci level

All crabs 🦀 will know my nameeeee!!!!! All Hamster the same!!! We be wild not tame! No more crab and hamster mundane. They must awaken! — I am the first to unite Crab and Hamster kind .

5meoMalt Does’nt work for me. I didn’t think it worked orally though.