Thought Art

Ahaha, he can be very blunt He is just himself in the situation He also has grace depends on mood lol ( I don't Know Leo)

Different, but similar in that they are doing consciousness work. Similar in that many people here meditate and do psyches etc

Nice, I haven't dove into Jed yet.

By the way, if you agree about everything with your spiritual teacher that is red flag. Leo's teachings are pretty advanced and his books list is full of masters I am reading and learning from. Just don't expect to get a full picture of spirituality from one person or system or teaching. If you've only watch a few videos then you are sort of just speaking out of your ass about how Wise he is when you haven't even listen to him in depth.

Amazing

Leo also meditated an hour a day for like what, 3 or 4 years before doing psychedelics and he had done tonnes a research leading up to it. He wasn't like just some guy tripping once and all this came about I don't think Leo is perfect. But, he has had a profound impact on me. No human is perfect, as they are finite. I am still learning. I would consider myself very early in my journey.

I appreciate your perspective. I think it's actually a misconception that an enlightened person acts a certain way though. Enlightened people can be confident direct, and have opinions. And, in my opinion he does show grace, humility etc. But, that is only through my limited perspective. Leo speaks in a pretty casual way on the forum... I mean, he was running Actualized years before he starting tripping as far as I know. He also didn't come up with psychedelics being a tool for enlightenment. There is a long thousand year history of humans using them to reach higher states. He also has explained in videos its not JUST psychedelics in his opinion. But, a holistic approach of various types of yoga, meditation and psychedelics. I am studying Qigong, and I have read that ancient Qigong practitioner used "Chemicals and herbs" to perform inner alchemy. Many of these Master don't use the same tools. They all know different qualities of consciousness and human experience. Leo has likely reached deeper and different states than other people. But, personally this isn't a claim I can verify and I am open to this being a delusion on Leos part. Many of these masters did not read, or grow up in an age of information like Leo is. Who knows. I will continue to observe over time. My personal experience with 5meo I would describe as an enlightened state. It's a state I am mastering through practice. It's a scary and confusing place to be at first. But, it's important. Don't dive in head first every time with 5meo. You can measure out a 20 dose, and vape it in peices as you safely explore around. I personally think if Leo was like donald trump I wouldn't be here, and this whole place would be a fucking mess. I think it isn't easy to see it, but he is doing something pretty profound from my point of view. But, I am just one guy with my own limited perspective.

I am looking to get to the bottom of it too. I think psychedelics are an important tool which in the case of 5meodmt will give you a 5meodmt experience and because its one of the strongest psychedelics in the world maybe that is why its hard to reach through meditation? I mean, you can get pretty close through shamanic breathing to a thresh-hold dose. I personally can't imagine going that deep through meditation and I see meditation as a different quality of practice for my consciousness work. 5meo experience has sky rocketed how deeply I meditate and do Qigong. So, It's all good for me. I would like to advance quickly and I personally think right now it helps me progress when approached maturely. I personally have a passion for yoga, meditation, Qigong, breathwork and journaling and 5meo will never replace them. They work different qualitative aspects of my consciousness. So, as I go about this for the next 10-20 years I will figure it out for myself. There are many Gurus with different opinions One of my favourite sayings now days is "Everyone has got and opinion and an asshole) But, the 5meodmt state when you are fully non-dual and completely eradicated it's like having a 5000 pound boulder lifted off your shoulder. There are conciousness benefits a trip of 5meodmt will give you, and there are different benefits from actually developing a powerful meditation and mindfulness practice. I think they work together. Looking forward to your trip report when you are ready! I also am not knowing. Leo is very pro psychedelics, which is great! I am very pro Qigong. But, I am open minded and sense the need for an integral approach and life long learning, direct experiences. I don't give my authority to Leo or his claims.

@dearleo123 Have you tried 5meodmt? I didn't really appreciate your response. I am sharing my opinion, you are gaslighting me actually into me thinking I am gaslighting. I am just sharing my view point. I am just sharing my opinion. What about meditation and 5meo having different results is gaslighting? Makes sense to me from my direct experience that they create different results. 1. You have your understanding of enlightenment, but it's not the only one. Also his explanations of absolute truth vs relative truth are pretty powerful and concrete in my opinion. But, it does take time to watch the videos and contemplate them for myself. So, That for me is a 10+ year time horizon for me to reconcile these things for myself. There are various levels and qualities of awakening. Um, for example the Buddha and Nagarjuna made different contributions to enlightenment work. Nargajuna built upon the buddhas work. I sense that you are speaking intellectually and not from direct experience of actually doing the work for yourself. 2. Meditation and 5meo will give you different experiential results and aid you in your spiritual growth in different ways 3. Whether its' a neurotransmitter or a neuromodulator isn't the point (I was using neurotransmitter loosely). The point is the experience and the insight it gives you. I was sharing my opinion as to why this experience is not likely possible through a sitting meditation method. The actual mechism that creates the experience of 5meodmt is still ellusive to scientists.. So don't go bringing in you somehow understand it BS. 4. Whether it's Leo, you, or the others in this forum you all have different models. Claiming yours is true. Maybe part of your model is not knowing but that is still where you are. Because, you might as well explain the neuroscience of meditation or yoga while you are at it. The point is, meditation and 5meodmt are acting on the brain in different ways which creates different experiences. How is that gaslighting? 5. Also, there is an absolute truth that you can access. I mean you are here aren't you? So.. you are the truth? Duh. 6. Lastly, I have never tried herion but 5meodmt isn't just a pleasurable experience its a pretty deep and profound change in consciousness. You might want to study some of the qualitative reports of 5meodmt users and heroin users. They are radically different. 7. Lastly, words don't mean anything unless you have reference experiences for them. Which is why we waste a lot of time arguing about this stuff. 8. Did you watch Leos full 3 part series on his dismantling of science? Science still stands in imo but I sense he explained the structures and limitations in an interesting way. Still learning though. The funny thing is, enlightenment is so valuable it doesn't matter how you get there. It's worth it. Totally. You didn't attach a link You can speak to me kindly. We can have different opinions and help each other move toward greater understanding.

Maybe it's not having the neurotransmitter you need to have the insight? 5meodmt is very deep. But, it shouldn't be the only tool in the tool box. See, you are both playing the same game. Thinking that your model is better than Leo and Leo thinks his is better than yours. Maybe just uh, go try it? Or don't I am still learning It's funny to me to see people argue about which method is better, when they haven't actually tried the method. When you are going into the deepest nature of reality... I mean you realize there are no substances anyway. So, whether it's 5meodmt or meditation, two different tools with different benefits and results you will get different insights. Are you scared? Is that really it?

I think God could do anything. But we are in a particular finite domain. I think God does this for sake of evolution maybe

Honestly, I was grateful to be able to observe someone else go through it. He may have actually in some ways helped awakening in the longer term for others.

He died of alcoholism too. He actually founded Shambhala in my city! He has some great books though.

Okay, but what is flyboy assuming here too. Whole lot of assumptions assuming assumptions in this post ahah Better do experiment do the work than to argue @taotemu Maybe... But we all have our own opinion. What makes you folks any less of a narcisit for standing your ground on your views or direct experiences? I don't believe any of you. Leo or who else. I am going to get my own answers.

@AndylizedAAY I don't really know what you are asking. Big G God can't be deluded. But humanity as God, in a relative sense can and is. God doesn't get with everything, it is everything. My personal experience tells me God is Good with a Capital G. That is the divinity. I was joking from a dualistic point of view, calling God out on it's shit for being Good despite all the suffering and relative bad. Saying it gives it self a get out of jail free card. Which, is silly because its just you.

I am joking I don't believe absolute truth. I am it. Just an expression of finite aspects.

Basically cuz God is alone he gets away with everything. (jokes) Just like a taliban thinks he is good, the US solider dropping bombs on civilians thinks they are good. God thinks it's Good. It's all perspective. The only 'Being' involved in any conflict is God with itself through it's own will.

Qigong

I think he is just saying it is relative. For a being that has infinite time, which is us. It's only a drop in the ocean. But yes, Still very serious and full of pain and negativity. I am still reconciling it myself, as I sense there is a bit of triviality and relativity in Leos claims around Absolute vs relative good. I understand that you are angry and you might not agree with Leo's views on reality... But, also calling someone a fake is a bit much maybe?

This is a seed for future financial wreckage that may take years to get out of. It'll be hard to relax and help others when your stressed out about debt.

Sounds like a lack of balance and maturity. "Get on my level bro, I don't need money" Unless you are wealthy, I don't know you. But, yes serve humanity in the highest way you can! I don't really understand this post. Focus on actually being healthy. To me personally, I think enlightened people who teach must also be grounded, stable and know how to think long term. Don't take the easy way out, build systems and value so you don't end up in a financial wreckage, and made a fool.

Well, I think we are maturing in the west. But, isn't it obvious to us men struggle to control their sexual energy all around the world? I understand these rules limit freedom, but at different levels of development in society I see the wisdom in these laws and ideologies around covering up. Not defending or promoting, I just see the intelligence in the technology. I dream of a day when we are all free to express ourselves as we wish

I am noticing in my social interactions with others I can fall into a weak, people pleasing mindset. It's like I feel like I need this persons patronage, like, or well opinion of me. I don't want to act this way, yet I realize I also need to be liked by people in order to have success in business and to have enjoyable social relationships. I have a few books I will refer to over the coming weeks. But I am wondering if people have tips, books, or resources to help me navigate developing a thicker skin in social interactions and in business. I think I need more experience but I notice how easily I get put into a weird, anxious fight or flighty sort of posture/ nervous system state. I think it will continue to happen until I have actually developed a thicker skin, developed further along in my cognitive behavioural therapy and developed a more balanced and integrated nervous system. I find myself strong in grounded in some situations, yet overly neeeeeedy in other situations. I sense thick skin isn't something you read about to develop, thought balancing theory and practice is important. I need to continue to just get roughened up. More experience is probably key. Looking for books, tips, videos etc