Thought Art

@Elliott The whole point of this thread is that research shows the importance of phonetics in learning English. So, why are you arguing with me here? It’s really silly. I’ve provided my own experience and that of my family. The OP has also provided videos showing this is the consensus of experts. Man, it’s like how many times am I gonna explain this to you? It doesn’t take that long to learn for kids and it makes reading a million times easier. Plus, what you say is silly because there is I’m pretty sure a literacy epidemic taking place. Of course distraction and laziness is a core part of it… but it’s also because the current system fucking sucks at teaching kids to read and write…. Because they don’t teach phonetics. So, you may not be able to add 3 months to the year…. But when a grade 5 teacher has half her class with a grade 2 reading level you’ve wasted 3-5 years!!!! So what the fuck?

@Elliott I only practiced it once a week for an hour for 2 years with my tutor. It actually taught me to read and write. I learned it after school…. So no. For me, it wasn’t helpful. It’s how I learned to read and write. It was a relatively small investment of time. Without this I wouldn’t have learned to read. I went from being behind my classmates to in front of them. It really would change kids lives if taught early on and accelerate the learning of kids going forward making each year of schooling more powerful. Phonetics is how to actually read and write. I can’t convince you if I haven’t already. You don’t know what phonetics is ultimately. It would make vocabulary and reading assignments more effective.

@ExploringReality Yeah…. I’ve never done that symmetric yoga thing Martin does. It’s part of his own thing. I tend to look at my hands a lot though. I am still personally baffled by the 5meodmt experience.

@Oliver Wright Play with fire you get burned…. No one recommends taking that much. How to ruin your life 101. Can’t blame psychedelics here only your own stupid choices. Your lack of remorse for your actions is disturbing. Endangering yourself is not cool! “Honestly I Enjoyed it” Yeah you enjoyed almost hurting yourself, harassing and assaulting others and giving psychedelics a bad reputation. GROW UP!!

@Husseinisdoingfine The quality of Wikipedia is strong now. It has peer review at the core of the development of Wikipedia pages.

When the soul of the city was laid to rest And the night forgotten and left for dead I happened at a house built of living light Where everything evil disappears and dies When they love you and they will Tell them all, they'll love in my shadow And if they try to slow you down Tell them all, to go to hell I settled in slowly to this house that you call home To blood and breath, fair flesh and bone Blush of our bodies in the heat of the night All day, the day after, reddened the skies When they love you and they will Tell them all, they'll love in my shadow And if they try to slow you down Tell them all, to go to hell It's a lifeless life with no fixed address to give But you're not mine to die for anymore, so I must live Born of a bottle from heaven's hand And now you know, and here I am When they love you and they will Tell them all, they'll love in my shadow And if they try to slow you down Tell them all, to go to hell When they love me and they will I'll tell them all, they'll love in your shadow And if they try to slow me down I'll tell them all, to go to hell

@Elliott The way your mind is grasping this is very interesting to me.

@Elliott No, phonetics is taught holistically. Sound, mouth shape, air shape, and letter(s) (image). It makes writing, spelling, and reading better. Phonetics is not incorrect. Written english is based on phonetics of our language. Phonetics is the correct way of understanding the language. Phonetics does not impede someone’s ability to read/ write and make sense of the meaning of the sentences. It actually makes it better. For me reading and writing contain many simultaneous processes.

They did touch on it. But not in the depth and focus I learned it with my tutor. I’ve shared the system I used in this thread. I did not learn this at school. We of course learn the sounds of letters, and things. But, not to the degree of how I learned in tutoring. I recall their being an emphasis on sight reading over phonetics. That is why my tutor actually quit being a teaching to then teach phonetics. I gotta go though! I may have to ban myself for the rest of the week to focus.

@Elliott Yes, it’s important to recall that learning a language comes in many forms and types of learning. This doesn’t negate that English is a phonetic system. It may have similar sounding words, and the occasional exception. But, by and large it’s a phonetic system with rules on how words are spelled and how they sound. Learning that helps you learn English to a higher level. You can’t “decode it” alone with phonetics. But phonetics offers a high degree of fluency to those who learn it, in combination with other forms of learning.

Did I memorize the Alphabet? Did I memorize the phonetics? Did I memorize similar sounding words? Sure. Memory is part of learning. Learning phonetics of English offers a higher degree of literacy than just memorizing how words are spelt. The letters in English all make unique sounds, and there are certain combination of letters than make sounds. By learning these you can read most words and spell most words by hearing. English isn’t random… it’s a phonetic system.

Not brute memory. As I can apply the aspects I’ve memorized and phonetics. Learning is more complicated than any single system. This is what Leo is teaching right now with his current video series. So instead of trying to prove I don’t memorize as all you should assume I’ve learned my language through a variety of ways including aspects of memorizing, phonetics, etc…. Different aspects of language make use of different aspects of intelligence. So, do I remember that deer and dear are spelled differently though memory? Well yes. But, I also memorize the phonetic rules too. But, I don’t take time looking up words and memorizing how they are spelt 99% of the time because… I did not learn to read and write like that. And, I’m a native English speaker. So phonetics wasn’t how I learned English but how I learned to read and write my own language. My own language which is a phonetic system… which doesn’t require gross memorizing as it was designed phonetically.

@Elliott Generally, yes with a high degree of accuracy. I can’t recall memorizing words very often, as I did not learn to read and write that way. Also, I am a native English speaker and could speak English before I could read and write it.

@Elliott After knowing English for decades I have of course the requisite variety to memorize words… but, when I type out sentences I am sounding things out words phonetically in my head. If you can learn to write a sentence you can learn the logic within human words. Okay! Enough of the Forum today. If phonetics are interesting to you I’m sure you can study it in more depth. Peace

@Elliott I would assume I can write at a university level as I have done so in the past. This isn’t about me, but phonetics.

@Elliott context. Some words sound the same. That doesn’t disprove phonetics hahaha. All those words still follow English phonetic logic. Context is important in all languages that have more than one word with the same sound. In spelling contests it’s common to ask for the word to be used in a sentence.

@Elliott No, you can use phonetics while reading. It’s taught to kids to learn to read and write. I as I write and read am always using phonetics. I sound out my words as I write to you phonetics brought me from a grade 1 reading level to a grade 12 reading level after 2 years of tutoring when I was in grade 5. It’s not cheating it’s actually reading English. English is a phonetic language. Whether you are reading writing it’s the same phonetic system. By learning phonetics you learn to spell and read words. Of course grammar and definitions are largest aspects of grasping the whole language.

@DocWatts Perhaps not essential as I suspect many adults can’t… but it’s very very powerful.

@Elliott If you are able to sound out every single word while reading a book with many words you’ve never seen before it makes it a lot easier because you can sound out the word, and keep reading for deeper context. Being able to read every words makes things way easier. When I speak of phonetics I also speak of the spelling of the word instead of the memorizing of words. This means for example a word with “ology” you could know it’s a study of something. But, the main skill in learning phonetics is being able to spell any word you hear with high accuracy and being able to read and sound out every word. This is a more robust and complete form of reading and writing.

No, they need not be in your library. With phonetics you could sound out and pronounce all his words he shared without knowing the word prior or even its meaning.

I wasn’t claiming with phonetics alone you can know what every words means. But you can sound it out, and if a word uses root words or other patterns it’s easier to recognize them making it easier to know what it means. Obviously, like I’ve shared definitions are important especially for these rare words.

I am sure you can learn that way. Me, my sister, brother and my sisters boyfriend all struggled to learn to read the way you describe. We all were tutored to learn with phonetics. Learning phonetics allowed me to read at a grade 12+ level by grade 6. Phonetics provided a deeper mastery and intuitive understanding of how English letters and phonetics words actually work. This meant I don’t memorize words at all I know how to spell just from hearing it. And, apparently studies back me up. However, I assume most adults don’t know English phonetics like you. I’m sure after massive exposure to words they over time developed intuitive pattern recognition. However, your previous comment of how English letters are non-sensical is revealing of how it isn’t the case you actually understand how English letters works. When, I actually do because I learned it. We are both right to varying degrees. However, I stand my understanding based on phonetics is superior.

This is false, and doesn't take much to show that... So no, what you are saying is false. Also, English isn't chinese our words aren't Kanji. You could treat them as such but you are limiting your understanding of the language.

Even learning that "tion" makes a Shun sound, is part of the phonetics for example. Emotion.

Yes They would. Definitions are still required.