Lento

I don't know. The president invited me for lunch and I didn't want to stay. I mean he was cool and everything (believe it or not ?) but the atmosphere felt kind of tense. I didn't feel comfortable with him being cool. Besides, I thought the former, dead, president was wiser. .. Internet addiction: eliminated.

I started doing spirituality backwards, or in other words, I started creating my own version of spirituality. For example; in the past, and in order to cure my neuroses, I used to apply Leo's principle; "Awareness is curative". Now, I seem to have become free from neurosis. And so, I decided to apply the principle in reverse. I am now applying neurosis to consciousness. I'm trying to experiment with what it's like to be neurotic in a conscious way. So far, it's working very well. It's like a muscle training. It gets better with time. .. My dreams have become somewhat lucid. Last night, I dreamed of meeting the president in person. Not only that, he was asking for me and I preferred talking to the former president. Since I've actively started working on constructing my ego, I started having dreams again. It'd been a long while since I recall having a dream. The difference now is that my dreams feel real, like really real. I even sometimes mistake them for reality when I'm awake. I've mistaken some events so far, and it feels awkward and weird. But I know that I'm on the right track. Because as I was deconstructing my ego, reality started feeling like a dream. Now, it's the other way around. It's amazing how things are being! Reality is a miracle! Sometimes I wish I could sit in nature for hours without being interrupted by any humane issues. Last Friday, my mind was completely still. I could look at anything and see the beauty of creation. I was walking with my brother in the park, and he was trying to discuss serious matters. I told him that I'm not in the mood for anything serious. I was so at peace, and I just wanted to appreciate the beauty of life.

Sigh.. It isn't just that, but that's okay. I hope I will be able to communicate it someday.

Well yes, but actually no. I mean, that's just one way of looking at it, and there's another one. When I first started practising spirituality, that was the most important principle that used to have. The map is not the territory. But recently, I somehow realised how futile that assumption is, and that I don't necessarily have to view reality from that certain angle. Suddenly, reality felt more freer than before, it expanded in my eyes so to speak. I realised that I have held a position by using that principle rigidly. Sure, it is true, but relativity applies as well. One interesting thing that I noticed was the reason why this principle even exists. I realised that it was a necessary pointer for me to break out of my mind, dogmas, and beliefs. It was pointing me towards the other end of the spectrum. But now that I see the whole spectrum (strange-loop), I am able to consciously navigate my way through life, while at the same time integrating both ends. You know, there's a freedom in strange-loopery. Right now, it seems possible to me to consciously build a strong sandcastle and sustain it for a very long time, perhaps even enhance it from time to time with more nuance. Mistaking the map for the territory stopped seeming like a bug, and now it's more of a feature to me. I still am trying to make sense of my recent realisations, so probably that's why I can't seem to be able to communicate them properly. I'm really trying my best to communicate where I currently am. The thing is, is that when I was a stage Blue believer, the map seemed like the territory to the point where I couldn't distinguish between the two. It wasn't something inherent in reality, just my view, I was actively doing it, the problem is that it was done unconsciously. Then, I started creating a gap between thought and reality using that principle; "the map is not the territory". Recently, I realised that it's whatever you make it to be. It's both and neither. I hope that makes sense. Thanks for reading.

@Alissa I don't know, but I do know that you are awesome! Perhaps the 30-day challenge worked and now is taking its effects. I'd say you'd find the answer in how you feel in the present moment. Are you satisfied? If so, then where's the problem? If not, then perhaps you should try to inquire into why that is the case.

@Richard Alpert I couldn't find him. @purerogue What I'm saying is that this so-called "free-from-beliefs-path" works the same way that other path of belief works, the only difference is the one who's taking it. On another note:

I might be wrong. It's working right now for me, but I can't predict the future. I've spent quite some time practising spirituality, so I'm not speaking from below. However, that's not the point. This is the point that I was trying to make. You guys insist that my construct is a sandcastle without acknowledging the possibility of you having built a sandcastle in another form. How do you know that you describing my beliefs as sandcastles is not itself just another sandcastle? You see? You just take it for granted and say that it's the absolute truth. At this point, we can agree to have different absolute truths, but again, that's not what I'm trying to say. The OP was asking about the importance of imagination and you were presenting arguments for why my post does not hold water. I was trying to clarify, and I hope I did. I, at the very least, hope that what I said would help anyone at all. I'm not here to argue, I was just trying to help. And sorry about the projection thing, it takes a lot of time for me to choose suitable phrases. When I'm in a rush, I just say whatever comes to mind first. To be more precise, it wasn't a projection, but rather some assumptions. Take care man. Very interesting! Kind of proves my point. Can you name that master?

@Serotoninluv ? I was in a rush for me to be careful with how I articulate my thoughts. You ignored everything I said and merely focused on the projection part. Thanks man!

@Serotoninluv You are talking about the absolute, which is the same absolute whether you view it through your paradigm or any other paradigm. It is the thing that makes all paradigms even possible. What you said does not really change anything, because it's just your way of viewing reality, not reality itself. I could view reality in terms of duality, and I would be totally right as well, but you'd disagree. You guys are skeptic intellectuals who've spent most of their lives doubting and probably never had the chance to experience what it's like to truly believe. And for the sake of objectivity, you shouldn't talk about what you have no experience of. You probably never had the chance to live life from the pre-rational perspective, yet you are liberal with taking a stance on how it is, which contradicts your current paradigm. What I'm trying to do here is to view both paradigms objectively from the meta perspective. I've been through stage Blue for about 8 years, and I know what it means to believe. The belief can be so strong to the point where it can replace reality, and I mean that literally. Like in your case, your way of viewing the world probably seems to you like how the world actually is. BUT NO, NEVER. It is never what you think it is, but it might seem so to you, because you have an identity that you don't want to let go of for multiple reasons, one of them would be because you've invested a lot of time putting in practice to get to where you are at right now, and another reason would be because that's how you used to view the world for a huge part of your life. You've fundamentally grown up in a highly rational environment, whether it was religious or not. The problem with paradigms is that there isn't a clear-cut point between them. Naturally, religions these days have a lot of hidden rational metaphysics. I've worked through those personally. I've lived religion both from stage Blue and Orange, at least these are the ones I remember. I'm not denying that the lower stages lack nuance, or that they're not more integrated than the higher ones. I'm not even defending the lower stages. But I thought our aim with Spiral Dynamics is to become Spiral Wizards and to be able to go back and use whatever we find useful from the lower stages so that we can become more integrated. I really am disappointed with Leo defending his position as it is the absolute truth. It's really obvious how that is clearly a delusion. Stop assuming that I don't know what you're pointing to, because I know it can't be pointed to. Right now, you, Leo, and many others here seem to be attached to your story of detachment. That's fine by me, I don't care. I'm trying to point out that there's something beyond that. You're simply viewing religion (duality) from your perspective (non-duality), that's why it seems contracted to you. But they both are just mental contrusts. Remember, you can't escape metaphysics. Religion doesn't feel contracted or limiting to those who practice it. Or, at least to those who truly believe in it. The identification they have goes full-circle to become transcendence, but they probably won't use these labels. They might even become enlightened without them even knowing what the term "enlightenment" points to, that is if they even got the chance to learn about it conceptually. And no, there is no such thing as "awareness". Awareness literally doesn't exist AT ALL. It's just a pointer, but like I said, you're not aware of how you're creating your beliefs, maybe not generally speaking, but just in this specific context. You're conflating the finger for the moon. I'm not saying that you're wrong, you're free to do or believe whatever you want. I'm just pointing out a possibility that I've learned from my personal experience. We could go around debating back and forth for days and we still wouldn't get anywhere. You now have two choices, either confirm what I'm saying through your direct experience, or take my word for it for granted. Or maybe we're on the same page but simply using different languages (and that's basically the whole point of what I'm saying!). Reality is really amazing! Because, since Truth is Nothing, it can become anything! Well said. That's ultimately what I'm trying to say. One last thing that I want to say is that when a religious person (dualistic) gets to have a non-dual experience i.e. transcendence or ego-death or whatever you want to call it, they don't necessarily have to agree with you on how to describe it, even though it might be the exact same experience as yours. They might feel One with God, but never describe it that way. Those people who got thrown in pots of boiling water, they certainly were living from a non-dual state. They, as egos, literally stopped existing. I'm using your paradigm to describe their experience, but they don't necessarily have to use your dictionary. They died before their bodies did. Notice, though, that I'm not saying that non-duality is the absolute truth. Because in saying that, I would be denying duality, which I don't. It's paradoxical, but you get the point, I suppose. (pardon the language). @Bill W Feel free to discuss more here or in private. @Derek White Open your mind up. There's a lot more beyond your current paradigm.

That's true when viewed from the consciousness paradigm. However, these labels don't really matter when viewed from the beliefs paradigm (religion). The consciousness paradigm is more a paradigm designed for skeptics who only trust their direct experience. It's really just another belief system that is derived from direct experience. You believe whatever things to be true because your direct experience said so. Religion, on the other hand, is designed for believers. The difference is that religion is built upon the direct experience of the "prophets", and then is transferred as beliefs to other people. Those people aren’t skeptics. They are believers. Stage Purple/Red/Blue, if you will. To a believer, attachment/identity is a precious thing, and transcendence means nothing. Just different ways of viewing the world. @Leo Gura There's a relativity here that you're dismissing. Your stories aren't the absolute truth (unless you believe so, which proves my point), they're just beliefs derived from your direct experience.

If it wins, then my belief isn't a true belief. A true belief is stronger than anything. There are many stories of people getting tortured merely for the sake of having certain beliefs, and they refused to change despite all the pain and suffering. The Pharaoh of Moses threw people in boiled water, and they still wouldn't go back on what they believed. Belief also isn't built overnight. It requires a complex of stories, which is sealed by an unquestionable faith. Perhaps I was wrong about the shortcut thing, and perhaps my way is the other side of yours. Yours is done through deconstruction, and mine is done through construction.

As we can do to your consciousness ?

I don't believe that ?

Actually, if you believed that the suffering is imaginary, it would stop being real. Not only that, you can turn things upside down. You can believe that the suffering is a good thing, and that it will pay off in the future, and it will certainly become as you imagined. You will literally turn the suffering into bliss. You just need to truly believe. Belief is a shortcut for consciousness. That's how powerful imagination is. Imagination is a superpower. God creates through imagination.

Actualized.org currently lacks diversity, but never the depth or quality. Teal Swan is vice-versa.

I choose to give up on you.

I think it would be helpful to look closely at the desired outcome. It seems like a paradox, a contradiction, or a duality. I mean how can you become integrated if you are executing some strategy to become integrated? And would you need a strategy if you're already integrated? The question seems like asking; how to get "there" if I am always "here"? I think the key here is to be highly mindful/present. With proper mindfulness of the present moment, you will know what you need to do. You won't need anything else to guide you, even though you can still use a guidance.

For whatever reason(s), you're wrong. That is, if you even said anything at all. Probably. A lot of unnecessary talk in my opinion. Just because someone talks a lot doesn't make them profound. It suffices to say that we don't actually know, and that we're taking our best guesses. At least you've said something of material here. Well, obviously, that's your opinion. There are no rules and no exceptions. That's just a story that you've created. And since it's a matter of opinion, here's mine; I prefer going forward and evolve instead of resisting reality and running backwards. "Guruship" is a real thing. Instead of having a negative stance on it, I prefer trying to enhance it as much as possible. I choose to not give up on humanity.

Well, maybe he's just disconnected from reality because he lives in solitude away from actual human connection. That's another possibility. Knowledge is merely a tool for the devil. I am a devil.

@MAYA EL Perhaps you missed my point. What I said wasn't a concept salad for me. It's something I'm deeply aware of. Good point. But still, it doesn't make the desire to help others a social programming/construct. These are two different things; good vs. bad is something different from authentic vs. constructed. Of course, both dualities are relative, but they're not identical. You can genuinely desire helping others and actually help them without weakening them. And you can desire not to help others and actually not help them while at the same time make them weak. The relativity here doesn't necessarily make the desire any less authentic. There are authentic desires. The paradigm which I sensed you were speaking from demonises desire and assumes that it's the cause of suffering. While that's definitely true to some extent, it isn't absolutely true. You can desire without suffering. That's why enlightenment is called liberation.

@Forrest Adkins This kind of questioning is impractical. Instead of just being angry at God, you can make your life purpose about decreasing the suffering of the world. Really, don't waste your time on resisting reality, it's pointless and will only cause you suffering. With the motivation you get to remove the suffering of others, you can become another Mahatma Gandhi. Don't give up on God. Don't give up on yourself.

Not necessarily. Maybe you don't mean that, maybe the words you used make it seem so. But, in this specific case (the exact wording), the paradigm from which your conclusion is coming, is social programming. That's attachment to detachment, which is a very advanced stage, yet, still not the ultimate one.

Okay, cool. I already told you that it's a marketing strategy. He knows nothing more than a child knows, other than being able to trick people (maybe even himself) into thinking that he knows. That's my view.

@Scholar I think maybe my point wasn't clear enough; There's nothing to be taught because there's nothing to know in the first place. Awakenings don't happen on the level of the mind, that's why we can't communicate them. It would be more appropriate to say that they happen at the level of the heart. Awakenings are more about opening up and releasing of emotional blockages. I think it would help clarify things for you if you could deeply investigate epistemology. It's not that the teachings are incommunicable, it's that they don't actually exist at all. The teachings/practices are simply games for making the mind submit to the present moment. After some point (enlightenment/surrendering/etc...), none will be required. And the mystical experiences cannot tell you more than a night-time dream can. Although you can still dream that you have the ultimate knowledge, nothing wrong with that either. The donkey analogy was in response to your question about whether Leo has better ways to communicate things. Well, clearly, it depends on the recipient/student and whether they're ready or not. I am saying these words and I'm aware that you actually getting it is out of my hands. Jed McKenna talks about this topic. See: "Spiritual Enlightenment : The Damnedest Thing" book.

Long hours (3 or more) of walking meditation. Strong determination sitting.