skywords

@integral Sure! Anything lacking in GRACE, anything involving the effort of denigration, the idea that some things are "wrong," is, by my definition, anyway, a "mindfuck." Only GRACE escapes "mindfuckery." IMO. In My Experience. In My Extensive Contemplation, Meditation.

@assx95 That's my answer, above. That's my dance with, my move, my response to your question.

Question: What if calling life a "bitch" suggests that one ISN'T TRULY committed to her? What if being really committed to life, "all in," can best be described in tender terms? Terms like "grace, love, warmth, gentleness"? What if harsher tones actually were suggestive of distraction, only being half hearted, being in fear and preoccupation, trepidation, hesitation and confusion? Just askin, just askin. Only YOU know the accurate answer. Just inviting contemplation, is all. Just representing my own experience of words and just how important they are to both reflect and mold my actual intentions. That's all..

@undeather Or maybe, "hit the head on the nail"?

@SageOnTheHill Of course, the "answer" to all those questions, and infinitely more such questions, is "yes: all of the above," because "being" is actually also "becoming," or the truth that truth is change, or dance, and all things are always changing into a new larger/smaller/equal opposite. Right? That's the whole point. Right?

@MAYA EL What's your favorite dance? Just give me a glance. I don't need to fall into a trance. I'd just like to know what makes you prance. If you have a chance..?

@MAYA EL I love your sense of humor! I love your sense of nonsense! I love your sense of endless dance! I love your sense of skeptical presence, pretense, and post tense: I find it very relaxing!

@Identity Yeah, let's chill. But chill, to me, means you don't worry about what others think is "healthy" or "dysfunctional." Instead, chill, to me, means you trust your own feelings, they'll tell you. Chill means you know that others can't possibly know you as well as you know yourself. But since you want others' perspective on this, mine is that any kind of violence is the body saying, "I've been stressed and angry, and I don't know how to communicate this without demonizing." Take it or leave it. Humor, on the other hand, says, "this might look violent, but it's harmless." So, if you're just making fun of violence, then, to me, that communicates the ABSENCE of stress/anger. IMO

@Angelite I don't know what you're referring to.

@Alex I didn't mean things that he hadn't already examined. I meant things that I'm pretty sure he HASN'T examined thoroughly. IMO, IMO

@Amandine Thanks!

@MAYA EL For me, the important thing is, or was, "does Leo understand me?" I don't think he does. On the other hand, he might understand me, but is pretending not to, because his plate is already too full, and he can't afford to. I can totally understand that. I always have too many ppl wanting too much of my attention, too. I'm pretty sure that I understood Leo from the very start. Immediately. That's why I love the guy: He's exquisitely eloquent and easy, at least for me, to understand. So, if I can understand all of this, why shouldn't others? And yet, if he can't understand me, how come? So, why not post? What's there to lose? You seem to fear apocalypse, the post that breaks the universe's back. I don't.

@remember 49 minutes ago, remember said: "he will not - you are not the first to predict that and you won’t be the last. and if he will he will take his time to get on his feet again. why eye gazing when people already gaze here? you are on eye height and you are not, why should there be a difference between x, y, z and even l (you still must find out if it is an l or an I )" What are you saying? I have trouble with your post because it isn't edited, so I can't tell whether you're making grammatical mistakes or intentional points. I doubt very much that ppl on this forum are routinely eye gazing. I don't think you know what Eye Gazing is. And I don't think you've ever done it. Or have you? You tell me. But assure me that you've done some research on it, and aren't just using the words, "eye gazing," randomly. Lastly, as Leo appropriately insists, focus on your own experience, don't rely on mere logic. When you ask, "why should there be a difference," you're asking a logical question. I'm not referring to logic. I'm saying that each person offers a uniquely eternal and infinite truth, and unless one is familiar with this EXPERIENCE, one doesn't know what I'm talking about. So, bluntly, Remember, you don't know what I'm talking about: Experientially, That Is. Hope this makes sense. I hope I'm not being too blunt. Also, "he will not" what?? What are you referring to?

see below

EXACTLY WHAT I JUST SAID!!!! YOU'RE TOO PREOCCUPIED TO SEE ME AUTHENTICALLY. WOW!!!! LEO: I'M GENUINELY AFRAID THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BURN OUT. YOU DON'T GET THAT I'M NOT PLAYING GAMES AND THAT I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT YOU. I'M TRULY SORRY THAT YOU DON'T GET THAT.

Leo, with all due respect, and I GREATLY ADMIRE YOU, my interpretation, and I'm sure this is new to you, I am certain no one has ever said this to you: My interpretation of what you've just written, is that: you don't find what I say engaging enough for you to do anything more than dismiss it, because you have other competing interests, preoccupations, and priorities, in this singular moment in time, and they, and they alone, are preventing you from contemplating the repercussions of my statement. No one has ever said to you: "Leo, you have yet to avail yourself of the freedom to dedicate dramatically more serene, graceful time, contemplating, and experiencing the awareness of just how fully to engage with another person, in their entirety. I'd like for you to eye gaze with X, Y & Z, for at least 2 hours each, before you presume to fully sense just what they might be conveying to you." This, I'm sure, is New to you, Leo. As I say, with all due respect, because I TOTALLY ADMIRE YOU, AND CONSIDER YOU TO BE A GENUINE GENIUS, ARTIST, GAME CHANGER, AND HISTORICAL FIGURE OF ENORMOUS CULTURALLY TRANSFORMATIVE SIGNIFICANCE. ps: birds are not mammals, as you mistakenly stated in one of your youtubes. I know you know this, just wanted to tease you a little. I'm not "serious," I prefer the word "fully engaged." I'm FULLY ENGAGED. That's more "serious" than "serious." It's truly authentic.

Thank you for your response. Of course, I agree with you. And I expect that you will agree with me that relative terms are "grounded" in absolute terms. What I'm proposing is that As God, you/I/we/them/it, are grounded in the absolute of ENGAGEMENT. When we are fully ENGAGED, we are most in the Now, In The Conversation, In The Relationship With Other ~ In Manifesting As God. I don't know if this is clear. But in an attempt to elaborate, when you say that Stalin, for example, was "evil," what you're really saying to me, in any case, is that you don't want to engage in his behavior, RELATIVE, to, say, someone else's behavior, someone you admire, like, maybe, Osho, say. But, what I'm saying is, that if you fully groked what Stalin/Osho really was, that is, God ~ if you fully engaged in seeing them fully, entirely, in all their Godhood, you would grok that they were no more and no less engaged in being God, than you, yourself. See, that's why I want to talk to you on the phone, at least. Because that way I can immediately get whether you're engaged fully enough with me to grok me. And, of course, conversely, you would be able to immediately grok whether I'm fully engaged enough with you, to get you: to experience your Godhood. ?

"But Leo!," don't you see that when you call ppl "evil," or "ego" driven, you are ABSOLUTELY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY, DEMONIZING THEM? What I want you to engage in, is a discussion, with me, over just this. And what I'm proposing is that, instead of living in an imaginary future/past, where there is no imaginary "evil/ego/devilry," we live in an Eternal Present, where there is just "my engagement" in this, and "my disengagement from" that...

I'm trying to ENGAGE Leo in a personal dialog about a New Paradigm, I call ENGAGEMENT. Since this proposed dialog hasn't happened yet, I'm busy preparing an "Open Letter To Leo." But, until then, I'd like to offer the following, to you, Maximo, regarding CQ. I believe that our "enlightenment" would be greatly enhanced through the application of the ENGAGEMENT paradigm. How does THE ENGAGEMENT paradigm apply to the questions of "intelligence," "context," "gurus," "understanding"? It "sublates," synthesizes, incorporates, integrates them all, under the banner of the following fundamental insights: Everyone is equally God. It doesn't matter whether one is a "guru," or in "stage purple, turquoise/yellow," whatever. There is Only This Now. ABSOLUTELY any and all paradigms that are predicated upon some privileging of some "better/worse" past or future, are engaging in demonizing, or "less than-ing" the Present Moment. Thus, no one/thing is better in any way shape or form, than anyone/thing else, and thus, comparing one intelligence to another is sublated (transcended, included, yet incorporated into an integrated Now) into THIS ETERNAL FULL ENGAGEMENT: NOW. If one is to engage in making comparisons, metrics, between some category and some other category, it would simply be in terms of how to communicate one's degree of engagement to another person. It becomes a question of COMMUNICATION of engagement, in the now, between two people. For example, "I am presently most engaged in the beauty of your eyes, and find discussion over the price of these eggs, meaningless." Maximo, does this make any sense?

@Consilience, https://www.actualized.org/forum/profile/12860-consilience/ this was clearly, a horrific event, I empathize with you, profoundly. I'd like to add a couple of perspectives that contextualize it, for me, in any case. 1. Ppl who live in cultures of violence and coercion, act in violent and coercive ways. This is the trance they are in. We are all in a trance that privileges one interpretation of "reality" over another. The culture of Actualized.org, is clearly one of inwardness and empathy. But that is NOT the prevalent culture throughout the world. If you watch movies, documentaries, and other media portrayals of coercive cultures, particularly police and military, but also, prison guard and other militant institutions, I believe you will find that aggression and contempt are privileged over other "trance," or emotional states. Shockingly, I have also remarked that such "trance" states, or emotional states as compassion and empathy are discounted, dismissed and, I will emphatically insist, condemned! I have been exposed to such cultures, on countless occasions, and have been sickened by the starkness of this contemptuous condemnation of love, tenderness, empathy and compassion. This mentality, which modern psychology recognizes as power and shame based, but which pathologizes it as a trait of distinctly separate individuals, isolated from the norm ~ fails COMPLETELY to recognize it as TRIBAL and profoundly cultural/contextual. 2. There are institutions predicated on both physically and emotionally stressful and deprived (and, thus, depraved) states of mind and body. Such militarized institutions as police forces, but also, ironically, hospitals, routinely, for example, use sleep deprivation to instill discipline and compliance on it's subordinates. This strategy of sleep depravation, among authoritarian structures, is as deleterious, unhealthy and intentional, as it is ubiquitous. Sleep depravation causes insanity. This is a well established fact, which I encourage everyone to study, both the literature, and the personal experience. It is a form of torture. It is among the top causes of cancer and mental break down. And I am almost, certainly very close to confident, that BOTH the homeless man, AND the police, were very likely exhibiting the symptoms of both cumulative stress and sleep deprivation, both of which are an ongoing plague upon humanity, and our humanity itself, currently and throughout history, and prehistory. Lastly, I would add, ANYONE who has the relative LUXURY to engage in INWARDNESS, even for a brief moment, such as we, ourselves, here, on actualized.org, are EXTREMELY privileged, and very close to the pinnacle of heavenly entitlement. We are lucky indeed ~ BUT EXTREMELY NAIVE to expect that the rest of humanity can afford to engage in this crucial "indulgence." It approaches the cliché, "let them eat cake." (Although Marie Antoinette never said such a thing, what she did say, would be taken entirely out of context, so endemic is our predilection to demonize.) https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ted.com%2Ftalks%2Fmatt_walker_sleep_is_your_superpower%3Flanguage%3Den%26fbclid%3DIwAR2pwAE2J8k4n9TgQQHRlsV0R-c2R8fvuFzTEzR08VM9vYKH9SaNpPUE5LE%23t-208929&h=AT1frP0pUHhrGDDA2HdEC3w6N_SrGES-J8MchxbE_IGryFNykyc8L9JhaRNQgrErM-n12Z4NRUjau5ypbdw-SjZ6WffrGPCa-gZgTPDxoS9cSfgMh-LeFywf2-LudseYc10OVGepErqxgcEHQ0JclIAWG-XhfDVT09VF7zbJvM0s

Asking others if this or that is "alright," annoys the hell out of me! Seems so incredibly authoritarian, as if there were someone out there who knew what was "alright" and what wasn't. And what blows my mind is, why not just ask one's partner what they want or don't want? Why ask some anonymous ppl who can't POSSIBLY have anywhere near the presence to have the slightest idea about your personal predicaments???????? What am I missing????????????????

Passionate And Exquisitely Deliberate ~ Panoramic Eloquence ~ Beyond Eloquence ~ Beyond Exquisite ~ Beyond Passionate ~ Beyond Deliberate ~ Beyond Panoramic. That's it, right there. I am 70 in earth time, and I have never, ever, read nor heard anyone as straight forward and in touch with actually connecting with people, without bull shit, on the highest, absolutely the very highest level, as Leo Gura. Ever. Period. He puts the "actual" into the word actualize, when it comes to actually communicating, in the real world. All, and I truly mean ALL, the spiritual teachers, gurus, intellectuals, philosophers, psychologists, leaders, whatever you want to call them, are so full of woo woo and mystification, and atmosphere, and fluff, and "credentials," etc., etc., etc. But Leo is the REAL DEAL. I mean straight fwd and to the point of every single issue he covers. I told a 13 year old friend that listening to just 5 minutes of Leo, is like having watched 5 full length movies, as far as impact. That was actually (there's that word again) an understatement. But I had to dumb down, a little, because my friend was so incredulous, when I said that. He would never have understood that that was, and is, definitely, an incredibly misleading understatement. HUGE understatement. Let me just end this little squib with this: even though I DO feel that Leo Gura's understanding of "progress," and of humanity's spiritual evolution, as Spiral Dynamics, requires dramatic revision, because I believe it to be an oversimplification, and naïve in many ways, nevertheless, never ever, the less, his overwhelmingly astute and intensely inspiring and mind altering and mind/heart, Heart Evolving Eloquence is, by itself, irrespective of it's exact precision, what I see as nothing short of exquisite beyond exquisite and mind expanding beyond mind expanding: Divine ART. (Btw, I read some entries suggesting that there be a space for Art on this site. I would have to say that, for me, Leo's delivery is, itself, as much Art as I can handle at any one time.) Leo Gura: Passionate Eloquence Way ~ Way Beyond Passionate Eloquence.

REMEMBER WROTE: "yep i can imagine that. but what exactly are you asking of me with this question? " SKY'S RESPONSE: It was meant as a rhetorical question. I'm just letting you know that my 13 year old friend is a male, and I know, because I know him, that he does NOT share your sentiments. That's all. I don't believe in treating all children alike. Nor in treating all children of the same gender, alike. I believe all living beings are unique. I believe that when we live in the Now, we make distinctions, and have a wider grasp on the reality of the engagement with another, than can ever be grasped by someone outside of that interaction. I hope I'm making sense. I don't believe in any "one size fits all" manner of behavior, generally speaking, although, by no means, always. Right? Everyone is different, and every relationship is different, right?

From my point of view, "enlightenment" means that EVERYTHING is of high value. I believe that when one's heart and mind are fully open, one becomes fully engaged with whatever is before one. Such FULL ENGAGEMENT is the experience of "enlightenment." Does that make sense? I'm not trying to be "right," I'm trying to be understood.

Excellent points for discussion! Have you tried talking, say, person to person on the phone, to one of the moderators? I'd like to do that, myself, and I'm wondering whether you could give me a tip on how to make that happen. Again: great points for discussion. I'd like to add that I have an alternative paradigm that, IMO, "transcends" the dualisms you refer to, in Leo's discourse. You may find occasion to discuss this alternative paradigm with me: It's the replacement of the jargon word, "AWARENESS," along with "stages of awareness," with ENGAGEMENT or INTERACTIVE ENGAGEMENT I suggest that since the jargon term, "ENLIGHTENMENT," is dualistic and paradoxical, yet central to the Whole Of Leo's Coaching Narrative, and since it is predicated on the pantheistic recognition that "Everything/One Is God," one can preserve Pantheism, while sublating (or subsuming, or incorporating, or synthesizing, or integrating) dualism, "right/wrong," "black/white thinking" ~ and replacing it with, let's say, for now, might I suggest, "DEGREES OF OUR ENGAGEMENT WITH EACH OTHER." Are you interested in pursuing this thread? If so, let me know, and we can more fully ENGAGE. Again: Love Your Observations!