WisdomSeeker

I think pac was the original rapper that was all across the board with spiral dynamics. That's why cole, Kendrick and logic all talk about his influence. Most people kind of envision someone being one tier/stage of spiral dynamics, but he had facets and many of those stages. He could speak to groups across all of them. He introduced me to higher levels of consciousness before I even knew about spiral dynamics. And his book collection: Tibetan book of the dead, bhagavad gita , Kabbalah, etc. Waaaaaaay beyond his years.

@dflores321 I get frustrated to and know I shouldn't. It actually shows my lack of development in such areas. But, man when you have an awakening experiences, there's almost no one who understands unless you work hard to seek those people out. My friends can't relate, and I'm in effective in explaining the impact because the limitations and duality of words. Such is life.

A great show dealing with perspective was "I may destroy you." As a male I never saw this perspective on scenarios of consensual vs non consensual sex. Although this is a theme, I think the series really touches on everything not just non-consensual sex. I watched this series through a lens of spiral dynamics. I highly recommend, it's on HBO.

What has more influence over testosterone secretion Parasympathetic Nervous System or Sympathetic Nervous System?

@@Michael569 aside from the superior health care a millionaire gets, how is Arnold Schwarzenegger still alive after all those roids? And in relatively good health, minus the heart attack he had a couple years back?

@LfcCharlie4 life is humbling goggins though. Absolutely, the unsustainability is what damaged his body/psoas muscles and he said he was dying, but was able to recover by using yoga. He now does it everyday for 2 hours. I do believe he is taking some spiritual components from it as well. This is actually why I like Goggins, he is evolving slowly, but surely. His adoption of yoga is definitely going in the right direction.

@Michael569 How do you feel about aubrey marcus, he seems like he is proactive about integrating fitness/health with spirituality? In terms of supplements, also I am somewhat reserved on their use because they don't have same FDA requirements as food and a lot of them are deceivingly unhealthy, e.g. I just found out a year ago for example Garden of life Raw Food Meal replacement was found to have heavy metals in it, prior to that it was supposedly the healthiest meal replacement out there. And then you have supplements some guys with, what appears to be a holistic approach to fitness, suggesting beta alinine, which my understanding can put you in SNS through out the whole day. There also seems to be significant evidence to support that, people primarily on plant-based diets (including vegans, vegetarians and even flexitarians) are likely to consume more heavy metals than people consuming primarily animal-based food products. I've had a number of vegan, vegetarian and pescatarian friends take the heavy metal tests and that is what the results are pointing to, as well. I take it crossfit, was too much sns activation. competitive, and in the long wrong too hard on the body, injury, over taxing, etc? I take the guys you mentioned are the type of exercises you do now? Lastly, regarding this comment: "What I was bashing on is the desire to be the top of the game simply for the idea to be 'the best'," isn't the issue being attached to competition in general, not even necessarily just being the best, correct?

@LfcCharlie4His goal at least, in the beginning he has explained for his client to get women. This is not important to me. It seems like a pua community based audience. Some of what he says is interesting, but I'm look at how to integrate and balance that with the sns and the spiritual. He doesn't seem to value that same goal. Personally I think audrey marcus has a much more holistic approach https://www.onnit.com/academy/testosterone-levels-need-know/ especially integrating this with a spiritual practice.

@Michael569 For Testosterone: what about pine pollen and exposure to hot and cold (Sauna and Ice bath)? Also, do you have examples of a well-known person that can be used as a good baseline of balance between PNS and SNS. I ask this because our society has skewed our perspective of what fitness is, sometimes, I don't know what I should be aiming for with a form of fitness that is balanced with the sympathetic nervous system.

@Moreira @michael569 thank you both, glad you reinforced my thinking. Now, picking a more sustainable goal for health and fitness that isn't influenced by these deceiving and cultural and extreme examples of fitness, would be the idea.

@Michael569 it seems to be that the balance of an elite athlete (in this case I'm emphasizing athletes which require maximal muscle think body builder, football player) with consistent activation of PNS, that seem to be at odds. There are exceptions, but most people that have seemed to reach the higher levels of meditation and PNS activation, do not seem to be these elite type of athletes that I am focusing on? Are they at odds with eachother? This and the fact that many of these types of athletes are jacking their endocrine system up by taking anabolic steroids, which I would also imagine hinders PNS activation, even though you mentioned PNS activation increases testosterone levels. Not to overgeenralize and over simplify, but you don't see an arnold schwarzennegger like guy hitting heightened states of PNS and consciousness like a Sadhguru, thich nhat hanh etc, etc, for example.

@Michael569 do you have recommendations on optimizing both. Workout timing type of workouts and balancing it after for the rest of the day via yoga, meditation? How do you measure this besides how you feel after, are you using heart rate monitor, eeg, ph/cortisol levels etc.? Realisticslly could you be a body builder, cross fitter, high intensity athlete and have balanced SNS and PNS?

@Michael569 thx exactly what I needed. So, working out hard in the morning activating SNS, but then through yoga, breathwork, meditation diet I can reintegrate into my day activating PNS for the rest of the day and that is how I would balance out SNS and PNS, because it's difficult to workout hard if I dont activate my SnS, and so long as I dont stay in that state of sns activation, and instead then activate pns for the rest of the day, I should be good. Most of the time being in Pns is good, but one cant always be in pns nor would that be good, correct?

Watch Master of None Second Season the episode "I Love New York." It is the quintessential example of oneness.

@Serotoninluv I live 15 mins away from theWhite House, there is an energy of unity and hope over there, I've never experienced before.

@giglio oh and heres another statistical anomally. https://theintercept.com/2020/06/02/minneapolis-police-union-bob-kroll-shootings/?fbclid=IwAR2iF7JQxdI3Eg9VJdMK1S5xJ-o00hsm66vOujBJdr0u77gALsnkjz9gRRs Apparently, Kroll the President of the Police Union has been involved in at least 3 shootings. Congratualtions, he is top 99 percentile of officers being involved in incidents where police firearms are discharged in the line of duty. Another trigger happy cop. You want to know why Chauvin got away with all the things he did for so long, there's your answer, as well as a flawed system. Kroll's career and record should be investigated.

@giglioWow, this guy's evidence is so anecdotal vs statistically based. The only stat he has is 20 complaints and his arguement about the 20 complaints is the most anecdotal I've ever heard. I won't entertain that. He uses words like a whole lot, many, most, vs. stats/hard numbers. He argues about the framing of the article versus addressing the meat and content. Also, I wasn't going to address this because it is irrelevant and a distraction, but I will anyways. At what point is a person no longer labeled a criminal? If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket in your life, then you are a criminal, using this man's definition. And no this did not address Ira Toles or the Leroy Martinez incident which Chauvin was involved in, but not the shooter. Here's what that looked like " Leroy Martinez, 23, was spotted running from the scene while brandishing a handgun and the officers gave chase, according to local reports. Terry Nutter, one of the cops, shot Martinez. An eyewitness challenged the police’s claim that Martinez was holding a gun when he was shot, according to Insider, which cited a report in the Star Tribune. Delora Iceman told the Star Tribune that Martinez had dropped the pistol and held his arms in the air before cops gunned him down." Yeah, I believe both cases need to be reopened. Anywho, I'm done with this thread. I've said all I need to say. Deuces!

@Leo Gura talks about zen, kriya yoga, yoga and enlightenment and all of the leaders from these belief systems/philosophies talk about there not being a need to actualize anything, but instead "realize" what is already here (truth/reality/god). So, why then is there even a need for actualization. None of these leaders seemed to emphasize actualization at all. The concept of actualization seems to be more of a western, phenomenological, materialist perspective. Should this concept be decommissioned?

@Carl-RichardExactly, western society has a biased for material accomplishments. And it's almost implicit on this site what I hear (although never said directly), is the acknowledgement and emphasis on the importance of the material accomplishments/ self-actualization vs the self-realization. Ramana Maharshi, couternintuitively, in my opinion had just as big of an impact to the outside world as Sadhguru, even though he was more isolated. I mean honestly, it's hard to say if Sadhguru would even have the impact he has without Ramana. He even has cited a number of times Ramana's influence had on him. Ramana's influence though subtle is just as profound. This is something that goes over the heads of most westerners because we usually only see tangible accomplishments. It's pretty obvious, however, our western society beats us over the head and inundates us with the material accomplishment and the self-actualization paradigm. I'm thinking like a Tony Robbins type perspective, and honestly I don't think the guy has the same level of bliss as someone like Ramana. Some of his stuff is helpful, but there is a significant amount of marketing. He teaches you to work toward material goals, yet those are fleeting. I believe self-actualization should be a by product built off the foundation of self-realization not the other way around and that attachments to any accomplishments should be as outcome independent (or atleast non neurotic as possible) like taoism and the bhagavad gita say. It's funny you bring up Sadhguru he talks about this very thing all of the time and would probably even emphasize realization over actualization. I've had material success and accomplished most of the general material goals that people aim for in their lives and most of those things are a fleeting sense of happiness, but to have an awakening, that's something that can never go away, sure you can fluctuate through different levels of consciousness even within a day to day , but to know you've experienced that realization, yeah you can never go back to seeing the world like before. and being able to help others realize, using your experiences from your own journey, what more important work in the world is there?

@Carl-Richard honestly haven't thought about that, but if I were to answer they both seem self- realized to me. I would say Sadhguru is less isolated, and interacts with the world more. He also had a wife and child, ramana didn't.

@giglio I agree about the shotgun incident. And I did read the details. Especially about Ira Latrell Toles. That case needs to be reopened. Supposedly, Chauvin breaks into a bathroom Ira is in, this is for a domestic violence call, and ends up shooting an unarmed man in the stomach. After attacking Ira, Chauvin says Ira went for his gun. How convenient... how many other civilian witnesses were there? Honestly, there is no need for me to defend the fact that this officer polices and has policed unjustly. Did you watch him crush a man's throat on tv? The video speaks for itself. You gotta a lot of meditation to do, if you can't see that, brother.

"You need to be able to know what you honestly really want, whether it be from the needs in Maslow's pyramid or awakening itself. Really ask yourself why you want awakening if that's what you're seeking." @PookieThe whole purpose of life from a spiritual perspective is to awaken, am I wrong? After transcending basic survival it seems that things like, fame and status are more egoic components not needs. If the world without spirituality (or at lower levels of consciousness) is a never ending cycle of survival and fleeting pleasures, why wouldn't I want to awaken?

@Carl-Richard i think respectfully that is where a I fundamentally disagree , you said "Yes, you have the choice to be like Ramana Mahararshi and sit in a cave for your entire life." 1) That's an oversimplification of what he did and I think it undermines his impact. It's a view I would expect from someone that adheres to the materialist paradigm. 2) Can you give me some examples of self-actualized people? 3) "'your own Self-Realization is the greatest service you can render the world' is meaningless if you don't manifest your realization in the world." Again, manifesting your realization in the world, can you explain what this looks like? Is you the way this realization manifests something tangible?

@Bodigger You are deflecting the point at hand. An officer (officer Chauvin in this case), was involved in at least 3 other incidents where he fired his gun in the line of duty (all of them minorities and this isn't counting him crushing Floyd's throat) and countless other incidents of misconduct, but time and again he was let off and still able to keep his job. You do realize over 95% of officers never fire their arms in the line of duty and of those that do a ridiculously small amount of them ever have to do it again (let me know if you'd like me to provide sources.) It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a police union who actively refuses to create reforms and who's president condones the type of promotion of violence that our nation's president used, IS THE PROBLEM. Say what you will, but you can't claim ignorance on this one. To your point there is need for change. The way I see it, it is focusing on reform in the police unions first. How that plays out via voting for local officials or through other means, I don't really care, as long as it gets done.

@Pookie I agree it seems that they can be. Just for my own edification, what you've provided are the more basic needs of maslows hierarchy of needs, food, shelter, security, etc, that's arguably stuff you need just to survive. But as you go more up the pyramid, I think things like status or even sex in the case of Yogananda and Ramana Maharishi are not needs and are actually distractions to realization. Even with actualization, what is one actualizing? And furthermore, it sounds like Leo has emphasized that realization is the most important, but then discusses that actualization is important too, which my understanding is that the Yoganandas, Ramana Maharishis and Buddhas that advocated for self-realization would say actualization isn't even a thing, it's a distraction, and that all the other needs are necessities for basic survival.