bazera

@Leo Gura According to you, where do you think he is wrong exactly? I know two points that you've mentioned so far, those were Love and psychedelics. Any others?

@Leo Gura With Awakening here, do you mean some crazy levels of consciousness you tend to talk about lately? Or some enlightenment experiences (ones you had years ago) would do? You talk about the spectrum of Awakening and degrees of it, so can boredom be dealt with if one has milder version of Awakening?

@Leo Gura Including talking via internet? Like this forum, youtube comments, social media, messengers, etc? I was under the illusion myself that I liked being alone, but the it hit me that when I'm physicall alone (since I live alone and work from home), I'm constantly connected to dozens of people through group chats / forums / etc. And that actually being alone is really painful and I'm constantly distracting myself. I think you meant removing all that shit, right? Just yourself and your mind.

I haven't been into that plane myself, but I like this pyramid that I've found on reddit. Maybe it has some truth to it. https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/comments/mi3pbz/i_made_a_pyramid_diagram_to_give_a_crude_idea_of/

@koops What do you think is the right way of doing that? Just staying mindful of the reasons behind actions? So if I go and socialize, and I stay mindful of why I do it exactly, to escape or to experience something new and integrate all that negative emotions as well somehow, I guess that's it.

@koops 100%. I used to bullshit myself that I loved solitude some time ago, and then I noticed that despite the fact that I am living alone, I didn't really experienced solitude because I am constantly connected to group chats, messengers, this forum, reddit, instagram, facebook, etc. And all that gives me dopamine hits and ways to talk to people. Some of that can be good, but that's not a real solitude I'd agree. When my gf left me a month ago, I think I tasted solitude to some degree, I was left with just myself without constantly talking to her, and that emptiness feeling was unbearable, it was like I was addicted to her and now I was experiencing all the withdrawal effects of a drug addict. And I was constantly trying to fill that void with talking to friends and strangers on the internet. That helped me a lot to get over the initial hardest phase of heartbreak but also that experience showed me how hooked I am on socialization (even via internet), and that the idea of being in solitude when I was physically alone was bullshit I was telling myself. Now I think I can consciously try to be in real solitude from time to time to get unhooked from this need of connection with some other people. I need to learn how to connect with myself more. Do you have any tips for doing that?

@Leo Gura That's something that bugs me at the moment. I'm 29 years old, and I'm not sure about many decisions in life but I still have to make those decisions, like for example decision on creating a family with wife and kids, which at the moment I don't want to do, but still, let's imagine I did that now and after couple years my truth-seeking journey I realized that I need to be in monk mode to be happier and more fulfilled. I can't just undo wife and kids (just one example) that easily, right? It's just something that's been bothering me, and so far my answer is to be extra careful on this life altering decisions like marriage, having kids, having huge depth, settling down in wrong place, having an unhealthy lifestyle due to chosen profession, etc. But also, I fear that by avoiding those responsibilities I will miss out on growth opportunities. But I guess I have to choose the proper responsibilities that will suite my personality, self, values and be flexible enough to change them as my priorities change from time to time.

@nexusoflife How does that affect your intimate romantic relationships? if in any way.

It's also forces you to accept your devilish ways, isn't it? How can you become a saint if you don't fully become aware of all the evil (selfish) shit that you do and goes in your mind. What does saint even mean?

@Miguel1 Me too, and it's a struggle, on the one hand I crave intimacy, companionship, love, etc. And on the other, I know that a chapter will come in my life for more and more solitude, as I go deeper into spiritual work. But I'm not sure how will that go. And if I commit to a relationship now at 29 years old, I'm not sure how will my psyche and reality change if I dive deeper into contemplation and practices. I'm really confused. Also, I experienced a huge heartbreak and breakup recently that also affected my views on this. What are your thoughts, do you face similar challanges? Why can't you let them go?

@Leo Gura You also stopped dating? If not, how do you fit that into the kind of lifestyle you describe? In your Burning Through Karma video you mentioned a need for deeper intimacy with a woman, did you manage to get it? Or did it become irrelevant?

@Mayonnaise Do you think that is realistic? Over time she will probably require you to see her more often.

@Rasheed They demonize attachment and long term commitement because it's not in their survival agenda. It's a useful framework for certain phase of our lives, but those dudes make Red Pill their life philosophy and can't let it go even after they exhaust that need. Just look at RedPill and whole Oneitis thing (its their invention) as one framework of looking at dating and relating to women. I think a healthier lense is looking at it from Attachment Styles perspective. It explains things better. And if you go from anxsious / avoidant to secure attachment yourself (after all the work on youself, growing up and cleaning up mostly, maybe some waking up), whole oneitis thing might become irrelevant. So the point is not to demonize and avoid attachment (oneitis), the point is to work towards healthier forms of attachment.

@Leo Gura That's assuming it can't get better at it. Or you are saying that it's impossible to make such an AGI given the current technology. I also think that. The last couple years of advancement feels like more of the same, a better version but essentially more of the same underlying thing, as you said "recombitions of existing ideas". What do you think will it take to make a truly intelligent AI?

@Leo Gura To work with your course, will different psychedelics work? Like mushrooms for example. Or should it be the same exact one you use for your retreat?

Hey, I haven't done any psychedelics yet but I'm saving up to travel to Europe (I'm living in Eastern Europe) to try some. I don't want to trip alone because I'm inexperienced, I think it would be better for me to trip in a retreat setting where I'll be taken care of physically. Do you have any experience in where I can do that? I looked online, there are some places but I wanted to know if anybody here tried some of those places. I'd start with Mashrooms maybe, because I don't think LSD is legal anywhere, and I don't want to start with anything stronger like DMT or 5Meo-DMT

@Nemra Didn't know that, that must be pretty intense. But again, the fact that I'm not in charge of a dosage makes me a bit uneasy. If it was just me without shaman, I would start with a tiny dosage, and work my way up. But if somebody else decided that for me, not sure how to handle it. But I hope they have different protocols for beginner and advanced trippers.

@Kensho Ayahuasca is basically DMT, right? Can you share more about your experiences with those shamans and trips itself? I'm a bit worried about the dosage, like, do you have any say in how much of that substance you consume? or it is all up to those shamans that I should trust.

@Leo Gura How can we prepare for it? I mean, that retreat plan sounds like a long term thing but can we do something today that can help us to get the most out of your retreat? Also, what is the timeframe that you are considering? Are you planning to do it in a year or two, or it's more long term thing like 5 years? I really want to attend and I'm asking to start prepare myself financially, visa-wise, etc.

@theleelajoker By content I meant changing stuff that doesn't require existential investigation and much inquiry, like appearence changes and going out to socialize more, meeting new people. By structure I meant stuff like contemplating why I do these things at all I mean what I am trying to do, what's my real intentions, what do I really want out of life, what is life anyways, etc. I don't see how I can avoid making the same mistakes in life (not only in relationships, but in general) without that second way. It requires solitude, not more socializing. But in the midst of a griefing period, my mind is all over the place, I can't do anything properly, so I just go with the motions and trust in the healing power of time and the inner intelect of an organism to adapt to a new circumstances of life, which should happen eventually, just a matter of time.

@theleelajoker Yes sure, I recognize that trap. I was just referring to taking some action towards your vision, whatever that might be, instead of being miserable laying in bed eating doritos and crying over a broken relationship for months (I think even that is okay for couple weeks, if it helps, but not healthy in the long term). And by "working on yourself", I also meant working on shattering the illusions of the self, which should bring more and more clarity over the situation, and might end up in a realization that all this outer changes (maybe even some innner ones) are deeply limited because I guess at some point you turn to existential inqury which makes you look at the structure itself instead of the content of yourself. But I think I still have a huge room of improvement in the content still, so that's what I was referring. But I know the potential isn't infinite there so I'll make sure not to fall in that trap.

@theleelajoker Thanks brother, your thoughts are insightful I intuit that if you can't do this alone, it's basically impossible to do it with a partner. That's why right now I want to switch all attention on me, on ironing out my flaws, change my consciousness in a way that I am more comfortable with presense, and with myself in general. I don't mean super metaphysical stuff, just the baseline acceptance of this is what it is. I can change some aspects like weight, body composition hairstyle hair-transplant dress style being more social, being more humurous etc also some deeper aspects that will take more time like emotional maturity more and more comfortable with just truth conscious communication in a relationship etc I don't see myself not making the same mistakes in the next relationships if I don't really work on myself for some time without distractions of having a partner. But even if I do that, I think there will be even more attachment if all goes well in a relationship and even more heartbreak when if falls apart for some reason, so yeah, I don't see how we can skip that. At least if you are proud of who you are and what you've built with your life, the grief time will get shortened from months to weeks, but still, that also depends on girl. Anyways, path towards maturity is so rough and tough. Yeah, in retrospect I'm sure most of the breakups will be seen as a trampoline for growth (if used correctly), but that's hard to see when you're neck deep in the middle of it.

@theleelajoker Do you see a pattern in your behavior that causes relationships to end? Are there some consistent mistakes that you make over and over again? What are you plan to do differently next time so that the relationship wont end? Or are modern relationships all doomed to end sooner or later?

@Rasheed I'm literally experiencing that ONEITIS syndrome right now (it's been around 1 week after breakup), and you are right, it messed up everything for me, I experience loss of meaning in almost everything that I found meaning before (I know it's temporary though, because I've seen that sense of purpose come and go) I was also thinking of that exact same thing, is it even possible to have deep intimacy and romance without such attachment, not sure. I think part of what makes the intimacy deep is the attachment, and if you avoid the attachment (there is something called avoidant attachment style), it will make things worse. In a relationship I also tried to detach a bit because I feared of losing her (and experiencing grief of loss), and that created a distance which made things worse in a relationship, not better. I think not having an attachment would mean that you don't care if you have her or not, but I don't see how that can be healthy, when you want to build deeper intimacy. Having an attachment is like percieving her as part of you, which allows more intimacy then otherwise. I failed a relationship because I was too distant, I was avoiding attachment (as I think of it now). But I think it can be done without ONEITIS, if you somehow create an abundance of options for you. The reason for my ONEITIS I think is that I was too depended on her and haven't developed dating or attraction skills before, so if you develop those skills, you'll be confident to find somebody new (maybe better) if your current one fails. There will be a pain of grief, but the difference might be in duration and intensity. What do you think? And btw, why are you avoiding a pain of grief? I think you want deep intimacy without paying of cost if that intimacy is over.

Hey, I want your input on something I've been contempating. After the breakup I've experienced recently, I was thinking on this thing we call romantic love, what do we really mean exactly when we tell eacher other "I love you?" Have you ever wondered that? I mean, I loved my girlfriend, but now I should not because we are no longer together (I hope it takes time to fade away emotions). But what was the substance and the reasons behind that emotion when it was present? I think it was a combination of physical attraction, lust, companionship, partnership, helping each other in every way, friendship, attachement, a way of satisfying needs (inc. emotional), and god know how many other things that I'm not even aware of atm. In the modern culture this love is portrayed as something selfless or if you have a partner, and you think that this emotions can be recriated with other people simultaniously, you are somehow a bad person, but don't we all recreate the feelings after a breakup with new people? It has a veneer of selflesness but it's so fucking selfish. What do you think?