remember

they have a good university and a lot of mountain and forrest around them and are connected with the other countries close by. in europe some of the cities built their cathedrals from peoples money, not from church money. there are other structures like markets which make life very communicative and vibrant. a church built through participation and freedom with some green aims will of course flourish more than one which is too strict and authoritarian.

freiburg in general is a city with a nice spirit - maybe because they have a cathedral

if you look precisely a prototype of how that could look like you can find that everywhere, even in a favela if someone is able to create it there. if you study bauhaus architecture you can see that there has always been space to develop into green - the problem is just that people are not.

@supremeyingyang ok, got you. yes. ofc - although all of them had a center of gravity. which we can’t exactly say for our current time. might be it will build around a certain university or that’s at least the most likable coming close to that.

if you call that finesse... i‘m pretty sure finesse like that might emerge again and emerges already everywhere, because thinking to do art does not make it art, but that‘s only emergent, that’s not art.

well, what emerges or does not emerge from a building foundation is ultimately the artists choice, if it is the artists choice to leave sth behind for others to clean up or leave sth behind for others to enjoy is ultimately the artists choice. but that why it’s not about egoic preferences. a canvas for example has to be white to paint on it - for an experienced artist it might be ok to paint on an already painted canvas, but also that might be artists preference or maybe due to external sircumstances.

yes def, reading about the bauhaus could help

cathedral as a metaphor was used as a building foundation for the bauhaus. it is not only a metaphor but a symbol for an overarching spirit. ofc you could replace that with any other spiritual building, especially when we talk about a pan religious pan cultural building. although the cathedral is a hint towards a long tradition which is based in a spiritual ethical code, what might be missed out on calling it differently - there is a history behind it and a profession. this is not dogmatism its just a hint towards the absolute.

you fail to see, that in what you think/call love existence must be prior to it - so its impossible to say love is not existence. which is why you want to attribute quality to love which also does not work out - quality is only existent if you differentiate, but in existence there is no difference, as existence exists or it does not its a singularity, it also cannot be owned even though the ego mind would like that. love=existence that’s why people constantly get high on it.

love you too some denzel! took me a while would say you go up some levels regarding power magic points. ☄️ is it the summer or why are flowers blossoming everywhere? getting really hot around here!

@Marc Schinkel then you probably would also like this! the poodle lamb trim. warning: not for underaged poodle trimmers.

yes in some sense that’s true, although a lifestyle like that in the long run might be unfulfilling even stressful and lonely. loneliness within company is a huge problem since at least purple, that’s not really new in history. your time gets fragmented that’s also sth they describe since industrialization - maybe what’s new is that the soul gets scattered.

in what way would you say that the digital age is in contradiction to spiral dynamics? what do you think is the new paradigm and how is it in contradiction to higher purposes in life or contradicts spiral dynamics or its purpose? i‘m not just asking because i also asked myself that question, i‘m asking to understand the perspective you have on that. i‘ll probably sit down to contemplate about that a bit more - somehow that’s a question i could probably fill pages answering to.

@Amit i‘m just realizing that there is this tiredness in the forum about spiral dynamics, maybe because in any cases it does not help to solve the problem. in some sense we are only understanding the aspects of one stage completely if we also understand the shadow aspects - this is when the map becomes the territory and we realize reading it might not be enough

that’s a trap @Amit and you know that! be careful how the ego mind tries to get rid of all structure, you think you know what the map is pointing at but throw away the map before you have seen the field. its far huger than you think, to just throw away what you thought was the map. maybe that’s what you wanted to trigger - how much better could you understand?

i sometimes wonder how much of pain can a person take until that person him/herself becomes a perpetrator? how far cornered up would you get in a clockwork orange situation? if you for example would take part in creating it indirectly? maybe by being the silent watcher or maybe even more actively.

this is kind of funny because if spiral dynamics is wrong is because it’s the way someone interpretes it and if spiral dynamics is right is the way how someone interpretes it. if spiral dynamics was upside down, then beige, absolute survival without hesitation, would be the highest goal on earth and in space regardless of outcome or other existence. but then this would probably not be the forum i would want to join. because that’s already how most of the world works. @andyjohnsonman thank you for that perspective! i guess if spiral dynamics was completely free from labels it wouldn’t be a map, it would be a blank page.

that’s a really difficult topic. it probably depends. although an advanced leader mostly tries to neither impose on others nor probably likes it to be looked down upon. sometimes we have to decide what kind of struggle it is worth fighting and what kind of fight is lost. this does not mean evaluating the value of the other person and if the other person is worthy. it more asks a question about human resources. if you are in a dialogue and flow state you don’t have to constantly struggle and react to ego attacks, its easier to expose your thoughts and feelings and ideas than if you have to be careful. if you are a good leader you probably know how to create a situation of reciprocal trust and understanding. but at the same time you need a good nose to detect hidden conflict and estimate probable outcome. a good leader does not play despicable games, at least as far as truth reaches (sorry that last sentence is a little bitterness).

integration adds and takes away and adapts and morphes until we get a more accurate picture of the situation, of us and of others. we have to actually look to integrate the whole truth and only there the separation happens. self is integrated in a flow state without separation although that’s also where the separation into my truth or your truth or our truth or general truth happens. if you are open you have to somehow shut the doors from threat much more than if you constantly fight for survival. no one reaches true flow states if the doors are shut from the start. but that’s also how wooden horses enter. or encapsulated egos.

ofc. that’s what every one wants. in the end its all a struggle for truth survival.

leo is a good hooker i mean he has his hooks out in the water, ego just needs to swim by. of course there are people who are relatively orange or even red - people with personality disorders and all kind of problems. a huge part of people here are not orange, but rather green. its interesting that green seems to struggle with red so much, maybe because they are complimentary colours and some people are colour blind.

the politics sub forum is still that low because most people are actually still in orange and its even difficult to talk about politics on a high niveau in a forum, as people use to share opinions in forums and the discussion oftentimes gets graded down to the niveau of the most red, because red always stick out not only in the sexuality sub forum. and somehow if having integrated green its often leading to a game of triggering the lower stages to leave their comfort zone. which is annoying for yellow who likes outcomes. that’s why we like to think it’s turquoise.

well if water is poured into a cup the water takes the form of the inside of the cup, the cup embraces the water. if water is poured into a box ? the box looses shape. it‘s a mess to reclaim water from the box.