Eph75

@k-ahmadzadeh The problem becomes that non-attachment isn't a concept or theory that you practice. Until you experience the shift that is the shift from attachment with the striving to let go, into the being of non-attachment, you will suffer and "joy" as you say won't be there, or it will be tainted, and it's more about getting through. When conceptual understanding and practicing has tranformed into who you are, there is no monk life spending of life, these is only non-attachment with the absolute freedom to engage, or, as in cases where you today wish you could disengage, you were never engaged to being with. Getting there is a journey. How to get there is the obstacle. Paradoxically, the shift is about letting something in your deep programming go. That letting go, if it is to be permanent, requires inquiry, insight and understanding, to such a point that the most deeply rooted and foundation understanding of what is, and who you are, experiences a shift. Albeit, this may sound like spiritual mumbo jumbo, it's is a very practical reality of our being. It is not about learning something, it's about deconstruction of who we think we are, unlearning, and recomposition into something more loosely coupled. Life is the journey, and a practice. The only obstacle is the lack of awareness that unfolds the stepping stones. And, that is what makes walking this path difficult, because as much as we are similar and experience similar challenges in life, the composition is unique and needs unique insights into what made the early you (loosely coupled) become the current you (attached/firmly coupled) - and how to reverse engineer who you are. If you will, it's the learning of what your own blueprint is. The greatest challenge is to shift away from external distractions and look inwardly. Consistently, always. These is nothing out there, there is only "you". So search inwardly until you show up differently in to the world. Then you can "be in the world, rather than be of it" - i.e. non-attached or rather less attached. Observation is key here.

@k-ahmadzadeh There are several thing showing up to me in the words you write. You make up that you have to be optimistic, creating a discrepancy between the current state and the state that you make up that you should be at. What if it's the expectation that things should be a certain way that in the first place creates the feeling that there is something someghing wrong to being with? I ask that as a question, but really, it's not. The very expectation kills the vibration of the moment. If there was nothing but this, the moment, the optimism you feel is absolute. The living in the past or the future is the only thing that can kill the vibe you experience. Suffering is the fuel to change. Change is the path towards emotion non-atrachment that eventually alleviates suffering. Non-attachment is the stance that allows absolute freedom to action. This is not a cliché. That is, this is a cliché until you experience the shift that makes it real. Focus on what could create the shift, don't focus on what's there, the content on what is going on. It's a distraction. It won't get you anywhere. It's the content you can be non-attached not. Don't dismiss this thought, that's the default. Stay with it, inquire into it and yourself, allow the thought to shift your perspective of what is, and what is will change meaning.

On a similar note.

@StarStruck What are you seeking to find... Someone that can teach you conceptual things that can connect to "spiral", in order to short-cut yourself to "success", which is something a mentor can help with. Or, is it a conversational partner that hold the ability to disrupt your existing sense-making, which in turn generates a container in which the possibility of manifesting shifts in your current and self-limiting perspectives, towards "up the spiral" to occurring? That someone may have nothing to teach, nothing to mentor. Or, is it something completely different? Regardless, I offer no answer.

I make up that I'm seeing the US slipping straight into the same trap, while keeping repeating the same ignorant things as we had in Sweden when the migration exploded. E.g. the bussing of immigrants to places like New York and more or less ignoring the negative effects meanwhile the phenomena grows towards unmanageable proportions. Only when it's grown unmanegable it will be recognized, and at that point it is not reversable, having set an ever lasting imprint of society and shifted the future projection in a vastly different direction than it would have been otherwise. Immigration and also homelessnes. Not sure if that's a misperception based on an external view but I do see similarites with Sweden, all the while Democrats keep talking about the ones highlighting the issues and the problem as being "a threat to democracy" and the emerging state generates new support to the Democratic party.

@Elton Do you want to lead forcefully, or do you want to occur powerful? Do you want to lead for the sake of leading, as a career path, as status, as a monetary influence on your own life, or do you want to be a leader? You can be a leader without a leadership position, and you can be in a leadership position without being a leader in who you are as a person. Who do you want to lead? How do you want to lead? Do you want to lead a flock of sheep who you tell what to do? Do you want to lead by creating compelling vision and experienced connectedness to what manifests within that direction? Do you want to instill firmness where people know that they have to align with what you say in order to escape discomfort? Or do you want to influence what is so that people occur as leaders themselves? Do you want to push, or do you want to coach towards lighting a spark inside each and everyone so that they occur pulled towards something that is compelling to them, that enriches their experience of work and working with you? Do you want to produce output or do you want to generate positive outcomes that somehow align with whatever business value you are there to bring value to? Do you want to focus on the external outcomes or manifest a balance between internal outcomes and external outcomes that aspires to manifest a more holistically healthy balance in the container in witch people and your "reports" themselves occur and manifest within. What are the behavior shifts needed? Recognize that many if not all of these options points towards a path that leads back to you yourself and the way you occur within what already is, and what you yourself manifest within that clearing. Do you want to want reports that report, or individuals and occur as empowered, engaged, motivated creative sources who co-create and benefit from each other rather than compete to win. What you choose to manifest as a leader will influence how others manifest. In a sense, the boring old quote "lead by example" but it's so much more than that, it's about designing the container itself so that positive experience can be actualized within it. It's about being deliberate about making it happen, being deliberate about yourself and making it visible for others to see and reflect over, generating shifts within others to help then experience the power of having shifts in themselves and their perspectives. It's about being deliberate about the relationships within that container, between people and between people and you. If you are a "natural" leader, you already know about this and you do these kind of things already. If you already do this, shifting into leadership position is easier, but only is business allows it to coexist with productivity. One challenge can be to g generate shifts within business to aloow the evolution and unfolding of the human experience within the business ecosystem, which might have repressed the human factor that inevitably resides within that system. Another challenge might be to shift into being a source of creation in with co-creation of the human factor can emerge yourself and others. Likely both challenges are on the table as conscious organizations are as rare as the unicorn. Albeit, behind the facade of the work persona's you have in your team, there is, likely to be pockets of conscious being and wanting to co-create. Whatever happens, you cannot engage with the triggers you yourself experience, it creates a push and pull environment that is per design going to not only maintain but strengthen the status quo, like flexing a muscle that only grows stronger towards the very resistence or force it gets subjected to. Work on yourself, be aware and explore those triggers, your values and commitments. Shifting what is starts with shifting yourself, and the manifestation of you. Being a great leader recognizes that you cannot be the one that knows more than the groups. You would be the bottleneck and there would be unhealthy dynamics in the group. You want to lead to help experts emerge who know much more than you, where you can occur as the equivalence of a "musical director", actualizing each and everyone into the "symphony". Ultimately it's about the experience people are finding themselves in while being in your team. This gets us back to the questions. What kind of leader do you want to be? Why do you want to be a leader in the first place? And whatever you want to manifest, does that fit into the organization? Would you be willing to make it an indefinite commitment to generate shifts without suffering the negative effects put on your person, generated by the inherent resistence you *will* meet on that path? This is a perfect example where the spiritual meets the real world and generating shifts in perceived reality. Practical spirituality.

@Tyler Robinson I do get that. I've been in a similar place that I make up you are at. Similar, not same. I do get triggered, it's human nature. And yes, I do something differently today when I do get triggered, that I wasn't able to do say 6 years ago. I get triggered less and less often as a result. Different environments, people, situations play in. I also do see how you make a Nahm connection, and how me assuring you this has nothing to do with bypassimg and instead getting straight into and with the pain rather than building structures that removes the need to deal with what shows up. I too feel that disconnect and I acknowledge my lack of ability to offer what you need. In that sense, I'm only offering a perspective, do what you will with that. ❤️ And I do wish you the best.

@Tyler Robinson There's always more to things than we make up there is. @Gesundheit2 has a point, as do you. @Gesundheit2 has things to work on about how he is being/shows up to the world, as do you, as do I. So that we can grow increasingly and healthily impactful in that world. There's something here that isn't seen, by you (same goes for everyone) and seeing that which we can't see now, is one of the keys that can lead to shifting your mind - ultimately redefining YOUR world in which we exist. You may very well be right in what you write, but if that's a distraction away from the very thing that needs to shift within you, and it's only that, a distraction, and even if this one thing would change, the way your mind produces thoughts remains the same, and problems with the world is seen the same way, only elsewhere. This is always an amalgamation of your showing up in to, and your interpretation of the world - and how that clashes with the showing up of others. That is, no one is at absolute right at all times, there are perspectives, and all perspectives are flawed in some way. Unreasonable could be that this is something that you can sort out within yourself, and what is actually unfolding now cements they way you are in you inner world. "Bad things out there" can't be fixed, and if one adjusts itself, there is an infinite new "bad things" that will case upsets. It's those very shifts in our mind happen, they alleviated the mental pain and suffering that is interpreted into the reality that we make up for ourselves. Consider that reality might not be as real as you think, feel and know it is. That it's being made up within your mind, as we speak. And consider how truly "letting go of" something can change how that world appears to you. From being against you, to, simply being there and not necessarily warranting an interpretation at all. Perceived assholes simply become people expressing the thoughts that show up to then as best they can, based on their own interpretation of the world. Consider that their showing up and actions have NOTHING to do with you. Nothing... The only thing you have is your interpretation - and it is flawed, incorrect and down-right wrong - just as everyone else's is. Consider journaling about that - the meta of what is happening, detached from the content of the story taking place, which in this case is limited to a forum, a lack of features, and a desire to restrict of change some people from being able to do wrong. Beyond that story lies possibilities.

@Tyler Robinson Just read your two reply before mine and after, we're a bit out of posting sync There's something very comforting in what you write. The problem with controlling what is causing the "upset" still remains.

@Tyler Robinson I fully see what you want, desire and need. And forgive me for changing the direction back to control. These are things you cannot control. Of course you have a slim chance on influencing by sharing feedback about such functionality, but you cannot control it. I'm sorry for the pain you experience. These thoughts are patterned "Tyler Robinson" thoughts, they are not per se your thoughts, they are thought that show up to you. When an upset happens around something we automatically go to where our patterned thought take us. This is typically to fix something "out there". This showing up as something you need, and it being in the realm where you can only influence at best - but likely not even influence is possible as it would likely require rewriting the forum software that is not even in the control of admin/mods. Sharing thoughts and ideas is of course great, ad it might influence at some level. But if there's an attachment to the desired outcomes, we generate a new, different kind of upset in that very process. What you can control is where and how you journal, and how you expose that journaling so that it becomes impactful to you. Paradoxically, the best journaling is that which others can interact with and where we feel safe to accept constructive feedback offered. And paradoxically, this place should be about creating an environment that supports people in their development - but reality is that it is not deliberately constructed for that purpose. Unfortunately this environment is not capable of being that kind of support system. Also, this typical "fixing" reaction that we have as human beings, is very much externally focused, looking for external world to adapt to our internal world or in that way, our capacity to interpret and create what we see the external world as. Unreasonable is happening in the internal world, where perspectives, beliefs, and attitudes actually can change, those we in that sense do control, with the result that the external world shows up differently to us, to the degree that we and it become something new that didn't exist prior to such a shift of our internal world. Unreasonable is in the internal world. *This* is just a distraction that doesn't get to what really matters deeply.

@Tyler Robinson I'm thinking human curiosity means people would click such a link and it maybe making a subtle difference making that blogging more meaningful. That is, were it to be discoverable, i.e. In your signature. Stay with the thought of being unreasonable, that's where shifts in our thinking resides. The first unreasonable action is to not dismiss the the idea of being unreasonable. The second is accepting simply that being unreasonable can be to disengage with the desire to take action, which is the desire to fix something, and just staying with the upset, feeling into it in a way that is unreasonable to whta you would normally do.

@Tyler Robinson What I make up is that there is a desire to control what cannot be controlled; journaling here and not wanting anyone to comment. If that is an upset, you can declare a breakdown for yourself, meaning that you stop and look at how you would typically respond and consider what being unreasonable with the autonomous thoughts showing up would look like, and what an unreasonable action would be. Requiring the forum or forum members to change is what's reasonable to you - you need to be unreasonable with yourself to come up with something that will help you on a deeper level. I understand your desire to make journaling public and thus more impactful and less into a void. Would starting a blog and journaling there, where you can control/not allow commenting, and linking it from you signature help you with this? Or do you feel that the public connection is still too abstract?

@Julian gabriel Inquire into you background stories and defining moments happening in the past. If what you describe is your compensatory skill, there's a counterpart that defines your fears that those compensatory skills effectively navigates you away from; from the fear of appearing say inferior, you will adopt a stance that shows up as eg. superior in your mind. Those thought are no coincidence. What you describe needs to be defined by you, and your influencing story needs to be discovered by you, and finally that fear is yours to embrace. Typically there are moments, and typically those moments are in our childhood, and often relates to our upbringing/parents, that are such defining moments where we essentially decide about these kind of compensatory strategies to avoid the pain of experiencing the fear. Paradoxically that compensatory strategy is driven by the fear and that fear becomes very dominant in who we are. The compensatory strategy and the fear are not thoughts we choose, they are who we are. What might that be, the fear that creates this compensatory need? Notice that it can be the reverse, a fear of showing up superior and you having compensatory skills that actually show up as being gentle, kind or even inferior - to avoid the fear and shame of seeming smarter than others. The dynamic is important, there still would be a story about who you are, "I am inferior", "I am superior", or something completely different. How has this influenced you life? - the fear in terms of limiting your thoughts and being, and perhaps the compensatory skill in terms of drive, even positive accomplishments but equally so destructive outcomes such as conflicts etc. By getting very clear about these (the fear and the compensatory skill) - and we all have one predominant background story, and likely more than one that defines us, but the predominant one likely influences us the most and in a multi-layered fashion - we can choose to embrace the possibilities that show up along with self-awareness in that process. Keep in mind that whatever you come up with is just a story that you make up that is influenced by all the biases that you have. It's not real, the story is not you, it might be relevant to your past, but it's important that the story (and fear, and compensatory skill) isn't having you, but you having it. Only when you relate differently to that underlying background story does the freedom to embrace your possibilities become real. In that sense it's more about the clarity of the story than who you think you need to be, as those thoughts are strongly influenced by your background story. Only when you are very clear about the background story you can choose to be unreasonable with yourself, and the thoughts that show up to you, thoughts that aren't in that sense yours.

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Didn't read. But.. Oh,no, do whatever "it" is... now. Don't use new years or the abstract idea of an new years resolution as an excuse not to take action, or to delay action. Don't procrastinate. The time to act is now, and after that, seize every following "now"/moment that follows.

Ah yes. But this requires dedication to that cause and practicing it in every moment of every interaction. Changing how we think will not just happen. E.g. make an explicit commitment to introspect in every interaction and event from today until New Year about observing your emotions, read up on affection theory and emotions, books and articles, journal your emotions daily, and use tools like the emotions wheel to articulate what the nuances of exoerienced emotions are. Not lead, keep asking yourself if you are your emotions and your thoughts, or whether you choose to let them go (not surpress). Let the practice completely absorb you, day and night. See what happens.

Well yes, but I mean in it a very literal obtainable sense - not in a "I am God and trancendant one with all". It's impossible to separate development and spirituality, as they're both cognitive/perspective/consciousness evolution but you end up with two different "flavors". Pursuing enlightenment is a false pursuit that can't be obtained from the desire of pursuit - but - cognitive development allows for a structured approach towards increasing complexity. There just needs to be intention and relentless pursuit. There's an emotional trigger here, there's impuls control to be developed where there's a choice to ride along with the emotional content, and being able to detach from going with the motion of the e-motion. There's perspective development that puts what happened into new light. And there's development of cognitive complexity that completely changes the meaning of that event. These are the growing up from human infancy (which might be a triggering expression) into human adulthood - waking up out of the game we're finding ourselves immerced in to a degree that we don't know we're playing games. That situation is happening in the game and you are being so attached to the character in that situation, identifying with "him" so that whatever takes place is happening to "you". Why it hurts is because it's made personal. It's made personal partly because of the personal attachment to emotions. Development is a big topic, but emotional development isn't that hard to take on. It of course depends on surrendering into that developmental process, which means that you have to be ready for it. Sorry, this got bigger than intended, and difficult to grasp from one post.

@gettoefl Imagine there being more perspectives and experiences than these of yours Just a so small thing as the definition of "party" and who might the party-goers be. Also cognitive shifts *can* happen in the mids of and as a result of such conversations, so there can be and often is transformative in nature, albeit the smallest of shifts. Of course if your falling-down-drunk doing this it's not likely to be much else than passing of time - which still, IMO isn't any worse than whatever nonsense otherwise "happens at parties". The dynamic with other still makes all the difference. E.g. no dynamic, only you engaging in verbal diarrhea and the other just nodding and wishing you go away is just ego flexing.

@integral I feel the same, but I would never push or trap anyone in a conversation of depth unless they want to stay in it. So, maybe just be in tune with their signals and if they were to subtly signal that you're trapping them. I tend to be able to dig in depth into a topic for hours and hours at end and be re-energized in that process, but others are not. Most want to shallowly surf away on the surface of things. Yet, people tend to be kind, stay and listen, and if you ramble on or keep asking into something they're not inherently interested to stay with, without giving them the chance to opt out, you're just being self-centric. Anyways, I do find that some people keep coming back, looking for more. If the dynamics are right.. It's right. Also I tend to stay away from parties and noisy environment for that reason.

This maybe does not make any sense from where you are coming, but if that's as humiliating as it gets for a man, what's called for is to become "more than a man", meant in a very much so obtainable way. Without there being that, where this wouldn't have mattered, the only thing you can do is to shake it off and move on. And, maybe, if you're ready, work on how to transcend the definition of "man" where this is made into a problem, allowing for this to be just another piece of information fading away into the void. Meanwhile, remember, this is not about you. Imagine what kind of suffering this involves for the person coming up with this, what to me seems like passive-aggressive behavior, and the suffering that person is enduring around you manifesting in their mind. Must be horrible for them. And isn't it interesting that you hold a certain importance to them for them to make space in their thoughts, wasting their energy away while dearly holding on to you in their mind. That's magnificent.

The point of reference is messing interpretation up. The point of reference of the listening happening, the point of reference of the one form through whose mouth the very words are spoken, and the point of reference from where the information is coming from - are not the same. Yet, the information is being forced into the fragmented mind of one more limiting, more restricted point of reference. Would universal consciousness cross the water without taking the ferry. Yes and no, both, spans both at the same time and any other combination a limited frame of view could dream up of, and, it's happening all the time, including right now. Would universal consciousness take the ferry, because, why not? In limited manifestations through multiple fragmented frames of mind, via multiple "specific and limited" points of reference - yes, all the time, or at least when the ferry and it's schedule allows for. What does talking about these things help a limited conversation? [There] Not very much at all. Unless point of reference experiences a sequence of shifts that changes the dynamics or identification away from being bound to form, ego mind and limiting expression. Could you walk on water? [Loop back to There] There be walking on water.

@StarStruck Meditation, yoga, and so on don't change your way of thinking or how you think - they only help with reducing the nonsensical noise that occurs. That reduction of noise, or if you will, amplification of "signal" helps with focusing on what we perceive "really matters". These things don't fix anything! They're amplifiers, noise reduces, which allows for more efficient introspecting into whatever "signal" is. These amplifiers help you to focus on the actual work. Nothing comes for free. There's still challenge. And you have to figure out what your personal challenges look like, based on what your observations of "signal" might be. Chances are you already know. If you don't, don't get stuck on theorizing, look for whatever action you can take. That's the one thing that matters. It don't even have to be the right action. That will sort itself out in a self-regulating manner. The passivity and stuckness in thought is the real enemy. Force yourself to snap out of it. Action (!) and the sensing into the results of doing is the path forward. Without doing, no progress, no evolution, no development... ...and, that development happens foremost in interactions with others. There's no other path forward. Without others, you're still stuck in theorizing [aka mental masturbation]. If you think you're not social, or too introvert to be social, and that you don't want to pursue challenges that involves others, that's just a coping mechanism that equates to your ego trying to maintain status quo - does not want to change. You cannot evolve in isolation. That's the real challenge. Every moment is an opportunity to change that. In every moment you do have a choice, unless you surrender your authority to "something else". Reality, existens or being is slapping you in your face. It's saying, "time to wake up". Seize the moment! Memento mori. THIS is a defining moment, so, snap out of it - you'll only see the significance of this moment in retrospect. Touche! The results of the actions that we choose, changes who we are, shifts how we think and as a result perceive things. No action, no change. No change no growth. No growth no detachment. No detachment... [insert your own imagination]

@StarStruck Theorizing can become a coping skill, where we feel like we're making a difference from expanding our theoretical knowledge, but it's worth nothing if we don't translate it into practical use. Reading another book, at some point, just becomes about avoiding action. The only way to build self-esteem is to expose ourselves to that which feels challenging so that we can feel it out and prove our ideas about not being good enough, capable, less worth and so on, being false/living in out mind only. Self-esteem, - worth and - confidence grows in the process. If you get stuck in theory, and use theory to talk yourself out of action and challenges, then you're not really looking to change. At the end of the day, wasting everybody's time.

@Leo Gura We're past this "assumption" This has been apparent for many years for anyone who has not been in denial about what is happening day to day and the escalation of crime, or who has been to busy to cry wolf, making false racism claims when trying to raise awareness and discussion around the negative progression. The sitting government hasn't been willing to order BRÅ to analyze the statistics that is being gathered. The Social Democrats previous prime minister Stefan Löven even claimed BRÅ did not need to do any analyze because Stefan already knew immigrant crime claims was not true (his claims can be viewed on YouTube). After a while they gave way, and statistics via BRÅ confirms claims. Still they haven't acted on it, delayed action, and actions that are not directly addressing the problem, predominately concerned about the "Sweden image". This inability to observe, identify act, and defaulting to denial until not possible to deny anymore, is one of the reasons, not to say the reason why Swedish Democrates has advanced for each year that passes. The statistical BRÅ data is readily available to be read. Swedish government come to repeatedly claim that "we didn't see it coming" but truth is they've ignore all signals and dismissed everyone's warnings, often as being a threat against democracy. BRÅ confirms certain crime and severe violent crime being over represented by immigration from certain regions, but interestingly also shows that second generation immigrants being more so over-represented in those statistics. This is again pointing towards integration issues, exclusion from Swedish society and norms, parallel societies emerging and so on. Sweden has cared more about that "Sweden image" where having open borders and hearts sends stronger signals than actually caring about the immigrants and their sustainable integration into the Swedish society. We essentially don't support integrating immigrants, and it's up to them to integrate themselves, which not very many are interested or capable of doing by their own devices. Of course, the group of immigrants that commit these kind of crimes are a small percentage of all immigrants . There are many other problems connected to Swedish government and its inability to deal with immigration from a systemic perspective, but this also by no means limited to immigration and is seen across the board. A deeper inability see and take cause and effect into account.

You seem to be I caught in a loop - what's your evidence otherwise, that it's not part of evoltion though perceived suffering and pain. You don't get away that easily. Also you must respond to your own demands and claims.