Eph75

And maybe that's the thing, it coming out as a smirk rather than a full blown grin while playing it fully. Have you caught yourself getting passionate in a conversation as you speak, you speak faster, louder, with more emotion. Then catch yourself in that moment and go "oops, wow got a bit carried away/passionate there"? While being passionate (high) feels great, reasoning isn't at the top of its game. I even think I recall some older videos of Leo's where he gets passionate and he catches himself in the moment.

@Nivsch I don't say it must but entertain that thought. Or the other way around, by reducing the lows, the highs don't show in the same form as before. By the way, childen are typically fluctuating with more spontaneity than we grown ups do. We're repressed in a way that children haven't "learned" yet. Repressed emotions come out with power.. With passion. Some people are fluctuating very rapidly between crazy highs and horrifying lows, some for no apparent reason. We would call them mentally instable and they are very unpredictable in their behavior, it is like a lottery which version you get and if you got the high version, you don't get surprised if tears of joy all of a sudden are tears of misery or furious rage. Being very reactive to emotional signals. That's an extreme of course. And this is wild speculation, as this is about Leo and not anyone else. When becoming less reactive to your emotions... that can be the percieved effect.

What if being very passionate comes with high highs and low lows and when reaching equanimity those sine wave like fluctuations gets levelled out in such a way that happy might not manifest as "looking super joyful" but you are in fact much more at peace - a truer form of happiness? Where Leos state of mind is - who knows.

It doesn't have to be black or white, one stance where you can take action is to notice that the debate itself is toxic and seeing that there are toxicity/downsides to both sides of that coin. Assuming the "gray" in the color scheme could be e.g. to step in and help moderate the conversation in such a way that it allows for a more nuanced and healthy debate. No need to pick sides, if two sides fight/compete then it implies that one side will win, while it is better off reaching a collaboration that produces something new, somthing better, maybe parts of the old, the good stuff, but maybe needing to let go of something for the greater good. Where there is a winning side there are also losers. That goes for the feminist debate, it goes for the immigration debate as well as for the gender binary/non-binary debate and so on. We're slowly moving towars a future where we will greatly benefit from adopting, not a male, not a female nor something inbetween those, but a mere human perspective where - in this case gender is only some functional traits, women bear children, men have (generally) more muscle mass. A woman that does not want to have children and maybe have great muscle mass at the same time as holding qualities that fulfill the requirements of a given task is as much suited for that task as any other human being. The empathic, slender man that embraces his feminine side may prefer to embrace what would be seen traditionally female. All with no judgement. Pausing and exploring what makes up our current stance, regardless of side we have consciously or unconsciously chosen - or being somewhere inbetween for whatever reasons - could help us to pick up on where we have our own dogma. It is only within ourselves we can change the world, by seeing and being who we can in order to influence the world in a positive way.

I have a hard time to say what books have influenced me the most, I read (listen) quite a lot and a lot of books that I consume overlap or deal with the same underlying psychology (most of it ~the same in the end) but from different prespectives, theoretically or pragmatically (being written by someone who went through a crisis in a particular way). This turned out semi OT, but I might as well see it through. With that said, I look at books as blocks of LEGO, the individual blocks may not look like much, it is hard to point out your favorote blocl, it is not often that the piece that look the coolest is the one that helps you combine and produce amazing structures and so on. Also, the sum is greater than the books you've read. Reading is like an art, a function; outcome = func(current_flow, current_inspiration, book_content) and in a good flow state a not that an amazing book can flick your strings and produce chords that in the end create something beautiful. That means, for me, it is more important to feel/know when the best time is to read what, like being the conductor of a symphonic orchestra, leading yourself into greatness

Detachment/happiness - we mean the same thing, the end result is the same if it comes from within due to circumstances that involve a relationship that enhances that inner feeling of happiness, that's still a part of that happiness. But yes, stoicism is angling it towards mastery of emotions, i.e. detachment from the emotions allows you to not be a slave under them. I just want to be clear that I'm not saying that you should give up your drive, pursuit, dream just because a woman doesn't want to follow/be part of it. You should absolutely chase your dream if that's what you need to do. But there are people and dreams at both sides, stating your intentions up front or as they progress allows for choice. There's likely to be suffering regardless but at least it won't come out at somewhat deceptive.

Oh my, there is so much dysfunction in that post - and the problem isn't your potential girlfriends You don't detach from women bringing happiness, you detach from the idea that you need women to be happy so that you can be happy with or without women or relationships. Shutting down emotionally so that you can do certain things without having empathy over that situation sounds horrible. Just think about it, you want to "use" a woman for a period of time that is suitable for you until you feel like/plan to get out of Dodge - at which point you want to feel... nothing? You're wasting another persons time/life, unless you are honest about your lack of intention up front. Maybe stay away from other than casual relationships until you've settled down? You mention others being toxic. What if you are as or even more toxic than those others? I'm sure that there are women that would be ok with "tagging alone" or even loving globe-trotting. At least for some time. Relationships mature. Children might become a part of the picture. Moving has greater consequences on several people and so on. Seems only fair to state intentions.

@Stakres Yes. People get themselves stuck. Life is complicated - yet so trivially simple Damnedest thing. Complicated until you "get it". Childishly simple once you've gotten it - whatever that "it" is. Models are useful before you get "it" - they help you navigate forward. Models are useful to verify that you've "gotten it" - you might just have deceived yourself, that's what the ego does - and it does it WELL. BUT you can get there without models, sure no problem. But not all of us. What do you do when there are no more models to lean on. We continue to find your way forward. That's what we do Having someone help you navigate "the chaos" is a beautiful thing ? which is what I understand @TheEnigma is trying to do.

True.. and false

Just appreciate how incredibly complex the circumstances - causes and effects, the coming from's, the life events, the going to's - are that are needed in order to trigger awakening into such a consciousness that is required in order to allow people to let go of what they know and to allow themselves to become something else, something more complex. We can't demand that from anyone. If we manange to achieve such a transformation in anyone, that is a divine achivement in itself

Depends on what you are set out to achieve. If your calling is to raise consciousness everywhere, then you can switch into "social cameleon mode" and talk to he/she/them from their "spiral POV" in a way that they can absorb AND challenges/touches them so that they can get developmental growth - i.e. be a spiral wizard. If you get triggered by that situation - or - if they get triggered by your approach, then you got personal growth to engage with twist and turn all you want, we always... - all of us AND always - ...have personal developmental challenges to grab by the balls (or tits). That's the beauty of bobbing around in "the reality". Fun stuff. Live, teach, learn. Also, leave judgement out of the picture - IT'S A TRAP.

Aha good, excellent! ... so, what's your problem?

That is a great image - thank you for sharing that.

Never mind above - forum bug, can't delete. That's harsh and not very helpful. We can hate our condition, but we do not hate ourselves.

I cringe i little when others should assess where a person is in the spiral. But the idea of wanting feedback is noble. Although, that feedback is better off coming from someone who knows you in person. You could probably get tested to find out. I don't know about any spiral dynamics tests and I don't think that knowing for sure carry much value. In either case you could redirect the drive to know into reading up on the spiral and the healthy/unhealthy traits of each stage and assess yourself for the simple reason to address all the unhealthy stuff you find on that stage AND below - as you are likely to self-assess yourself above where you actually are - as well as revisiting the healty traits of each stage - and of course - pursue the emerging qualities of the stage you are in to ensure continuous growth. If you want to pay some money, the only thing I know of is the Harthill Sentence Completion test that tells you your LDP (Leadership Development Profile) based on your reasoning/sense making that you apply to the questions you need to answer. The leadership profiles reflect the stages of the spiral dynamics model, not 100% match in different stages but in how your mindset/cognition is working for you is the same. Unfortunately not "cheap" but everything is relative. https://harthill.co.uk/the-LDF-profile/getting-own-ldp/ Questions that you probably should ask yourself is why is it important to know - exactly why do you "need" to know? What difference does it make once you do know? What can you do when you know that you can't do already, today, right now?

How do you know? People who are social can be slaves under the expectations that they have built up for themselves, forcing them to take on a social persona/facade. I know this as I know 2 people who have had this problem in the past, one is a close friend, the other one was a past version of me. We were both "stuck in our heads" We talked about this a while ago. I told him he was social and he disagreed. He told me that it was me that was social, I disagreed. We were both taking on a social game face while doing so it made us feel bad. You just can't tell, if people don't want you to know. Hell, sometimes they don't really know themselves. Assumptions are dangerous.

Yes, seek professional help. It is calling out to you to take action. Meditation while there is something that is calling for you to take action is hard. Letting go of thoughts is one thing, alot of thoughts are just distractions, but some things call out for action that must be taken.

It is always easy to see once you've already opened your eyes. All we can do is be the inspiration that shows there is something good at the end of that tunnel and maybe that inspiration helps someone do the work it takes. Anywho, it all got somewhat OT, sorry @Dylan Page And that's the problem, questions that need answers, such answers that in the current state makes no sense, and hence, will not be given. Make it the start of a journey. Answers will come. It is okay to be confused along the way.

And at the same time, that is the beauty of it - and why realizing letting go of what you think is "you" is so rewarding ?

Oh yes, what problems we experience are only symptoms of an underlying unability to relate to our emotional responses in a healthy way, paired with awareness of how we "tick". While addressing the symptoms individually and making space to breath so that we can address the underlying problem, just focusing on the symptoms becomes a game of whack-a-mole. There will always be another one, "bad" things just happen "to you" for "no apparent reason". Understanding your emotional responses - and raising awareness - is taking the rudder and becoming the captain of your own life, regardless of that meaning just being at peace or actively steering your ship towards an intentional destination. No more drifting asea, being a victim of ever shifting weather (circumstances). Pausing in the moment, when these kind of emotions appear and switching into being that objective self-observer gives you some time and space to change the meaning of what is happening - the symptom - as well as curiously explore how we think ourselves into such "traps" - which is the underlying problem that needs to be addressed. It is somewhat embarrasing that often we make-believe up those traps all by ourselves, all mental constructs that have no real world connection, all coming from a habit of toxic/negative thought patterns.

@Dylan Page Yes, it seems that you are suffering from cognitive dissonance, the discrepancy between not being attracted to interacting with the people you have the opportunity to interact with and the feeling that should must/should interact with people in order to fulfill whatever cultural or personal expectations you place on yourself. As @purerogue says, your needs/desires/expectations trigger emotional responses that makes us feel the way we do, in your case, bad. What would be good to explore is what lies beneath that emotion, why is it important. Don't accept the first top-of-the-head answer as is likely that is of the ego which just confirms that what you are feeling that "makes sense". We're awesome at tricking ourselves. Dig deeper. In the end what you will need to do is to distance yourself from your emotions in such a way that you can observe them from a sober more objective perspective, in such a sense that you place your emotions and your ego "over there" and you - your conscious self - remain "over here", observing, contemplating that which is not working for you without engaging with the feeling. That's not the easiest thing to do, it takes practice. Being alone and being lonely are not the same thing. Faulty expectations or desires can mix them up, making being alone being a bad thing, while holding the ability to be alone - we all and up alone at times - is a strength and is fundamental to being able to be at peace.

That is just a step towards growing personal responsibility. What is the sense of being defensive against a mistake you made yourself. Not being able to accept and stand behind ones mistakes is a limitation of the ego. It is not directly connected to low self-esteem but that doesn't necessarily mean that you don't suffer from low self-esteem. It is a good thing, embrace it. If you worry about low self-esteem, process that independently of this.

@Parththakkar12 Yes, all that makes perfect sense to me We're essentially just describing the same thing from two different perspectives, via different words.

@Parththakkar12 Oh sorry, what I meant with "how is that working for you" was, in what ways have you empirically experienced law attraction from a magic point-of-view, having it it fulfill your desires what has it brought you that was not related to conscious or subconscious actions taken by you. Of course, subconscious actions, being subconscious would probably appear magical.

@Parththakkar12 That's assuming that miracles/magic ever has happened or could happen. While being open to the possibility, and I'd love to be positively surprised, until then, that remains fantasy to me. If law of attraction has proven works for you on that level, good for you I'm pragmatic when it comes to these things. Tell me, how is that working out for you?