Eph75

Excerpt from the forum guidelines.

Just because women are generally speaking the oppressed gender, doesn't automatically mean that there are no men that are oppressed in some kind of situation/way. Some cases where women have the "upper hand" have already been mentioned here. Anywho, The Red Pill is an interesting documentary related to that subject. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3686998/

First stage of meditation is reaching access concentration. When you do the breath typically gets very shallow and then parts of the body can get numb, tingle and other things. For me my fingers typically feel like they're numb and point in strange directions. The breath can get so shallow that you feel like taking a deep breath, but don't. Ther may be invoulentary "gasps" for air, don't pay attention to it. Just stay with it, don't bother too much about what happens, it will disrupt your concentration and prevent you from moving on to deeper states where even more fun stuff happens.

I have been in therapy twice, first time I had no idea that I needed it and circumstances got me there - it was an eye-opener to something that I had never seen about myself. It was only two sessions but it was the start of unraveling myself. Life changing. The second was at a phase where I had explored "all my known limitations" but I felt confused as there was "nothing left" but something wasn't right. I went on my own initiative and it made me expose myself to most rooted and to me "known unknown", blindspot and limitation. The second time around was about 5-6 sessions and on to of that 12 x 3h group sessions/training in emotional responses. Life changing. Somehow before these I thought of therapy as admitting failure and a weakness, something to be ashamed of - in truth it is a strength and power to know when it's time to get some guidence into rearranging what you know so that you get better chance to assemble the pieces of your life puzzle that you've already figured out - which adds clarity. The outcome of therapy I think fully depend on you doing the work, not then therapist, they just guide you forward and into reasoning that is a blindspot to you.

So from your sense making, women are taking something that inherently belongs to men?

Knowing where you are dogmatic means you know where you are deliberatly unwilling to find out what you are missing, perspectives that you know probably will change you own perspective - not switch perspective but shift into a new, own perspective. That new perspective will allow you to have as stong action will/action logic as with your old perspective. The actions will only be different, more informed and hence more powerful. That is self-actualization developmental growth, new greater understanding and new stronger ways to interact with the world in which you operate.

"It" is black & white only if "we" are black & white. It is one thing to be dogmatic by choice, but it is a real strength to know our dogmas. Question is, if we know we are being dogmatic, can we stay dogmatic?

And maybe that's the thing, it coming out as a smirk rather than a full blown grin while playing it fully. Have you caught yourself getting passionate in a conversation as you speak, you speak faster, louder, with more emotion. Then catch yourself in that moment and go "oops, wow got a bit carried away/passionate there"? While being passionate (high) feels great, reasoning isn't at the top of its game. I even think I recall some older videos of Leo's where he gets passionate and he catches himself in the moment.

@Nivsch I don't say it must but entertain that thought. Or the other way around, by reducing the lows, the highs don't show in the same form as before. By the way, childen are typically fluctuating with more spontaneity than we grown ups do. We're repressed in a way that children haven't "learned" yet. Repressed emotions come out with power.. With passion. Some people are fluctuating very rapidly between crazy highs and horrifying lows, some for no apparent reason. We would call them mentally instable and they are very unpredictable in their behavior, it is like a lottery which version you get and if you got the high version, you don't get surprised if tears of joy all of a sudden are tears of misery or furious rage. Being very reactive to emotional signals. That's an extreme of course. And this is wild speculation, as this is about Leo and not anyone else. When becoming less reactive to your emotions... that can be the percieved effect.

What if being very passionate comes with high highs and low lows and when reaching equanimity those sine wave like fluctuations gets levelled out in such a way that happy might not manifest as "looking super joyful" but you are in fact much more at peace - a truer form of happiness? Where Leos state of mind is - who knows.

It doesn't have to be black or white, one stance where you can take action is to notice that the debate itself is toxic and seeing that there are toxicity/downsides to both sides of that coin. Assuming the "gray" in the color scheme could be e.g. to step in and help moderate the conversation in such a way that it allows for a more nuanced and healthy debate. No need to pick sides, if two sides fight/compete then it implies that one side will win, while it is better off reaching a collaboration that produces something new, somthing better, maybe parts of the old, the good stuff, but maybe needing to let go of something for the greater good. Where there is a winning side there are also losers. That goes for the feminist debate, it goes for the immigration debate as well as for the gender binary/non-binary debate and so on. We're slowly moving towars a future where we will greatly benefit from adopting, not a male, not a female nor something inbetween those, but a mere human perspective where - in this case gender is only some functional traits, women bear children, men have (generally) more muscle mass. A woman that does not want to have children and maybe have great muscle mass at the same time as holding qualities that fulfill the requirements of a given task is as much suited for that task as any other human being. The empathic, slender man that embraces his feminine side may prefer to embrace what would be seen traditionally female. All with no judgement. Pausing and exploring what makes up our current stance, regardless of side we have consciously or unconsciously chosen - or being somewhere inbetween for whatever reasons - could help us to pick up on where we have our own dogma. It is only within ourselves we can change the world, by seeing and being who we can in order to influence the world in a positive way.

I have a hard time to say what books have influenced me the most, I read (listen) quite a lot and a lot of books that I consume overlap or deal with the same underlying psychology (most of it ~the same in the end) but from different prespectives, theoretically or pragmatically (being written by someone who went through a crisis in a particular way). This turned out semi OT, but I might as well see it through. With that said, I look at books as blocks of LEGO, the individual blocks may not look like much, it is hard to point out your favorote blocl, it is not often that the piece that look the coolest is the one that helps you combine and produce amazing structures and so on. Also, the sum is greater than the books you've read. Reading is like an art, a function; outcome = func(current_flow, current_inspiration, book_content) and in a good flow state a not that an amazing book can flick your strings and produce chords that in the end create something beautiful. That means, for me, it is more important to feel/know when the best time is to read what, like being the conductor of a symphonic orchestra, leading yourself into greatness

Detachment/happiness - we mean the same thing, the end result is the same if it comes from within due to circumstances that involve a relationship that enhances that inner feeling of happiness, that's still a part of that happiness. But yes, stoicism is angling it towards mastery of emotions, i.e. detachment from the emotions allows you to not be a slave under them. I just want to be clear that I'm not saying that you should give up your drive, pursuit, dream just because a woman doesn't want to follow/be part of it. You should absolutely chase your dream if that's what you need to do. But there are people and dreams at both sides, stating your intentions up front or as they progress allows for choice. There's likely to be suffering regardless but at least it won't come out at somewhat deceptive.

Oh my, there is so much dysfunction in that post - and the problem isn't your potential girlfriends You don't detach from women bringing happiness, you detach from the idea that you need women to be happy so that you can be happy with or without women or relationships. Shutting down emotionally so that you can do certain things without having empathy over that situation sounds horrible. Just think about it, you want to "use" a woman for a period of time that is suitable for you until you feel like/plan to get out of Dodge - at which point you want to feel... nothing? You're wasting another persons time/life, unless you are honest about your lack of intention up front. Maybe stay away from other than casual relationships until you've settled down? You mention others being toxic. What if you are as or even more toxic than those others? I'm sure that there are women that would be ok with "tagging alone" or even loving globe-trotting. At least for some time. Relationships mature. Children might become a part of the picture. Moving has greater consequences on several people and so on. Seems only fair to state intentions.

@Stakres Yes. People get themselves stuck. Life is complicated - yet so trivially simple Damnedest thing. Complicated until you "get it". Childishly simple once you've gotten it - whatever that "it" is. Models are useful before you get "it" - they help you navigate forward. Models are useful to verify that you've "gotten it" - you might just have deceived yourself, that's what the ego does - and it does it WELL. BUT you can get there without models, sure no problem. But not all of us. What do you do when there are no more models to lean on. We continue to find your way forward. That's what we do Having someone help you navigate "the chaos" is a beautiful thing ? which is what I understand @TheEnigma is trying to do.

True.. and false

Just appreciate how incredibly complex the circumstances - causes and effects, the coming from's, the life events, the going to's - are that are needed in order to trigger awakening into such a consciousness that is required in order to allow people to let go of what they know and to allow themselves to become something else, something more complex. We can't demand that from anyone. If we manange to achieve such a transformation in anyone, that is a divine achivement in itself

Depends on what you are set out to achieve. If your calling is to raise consciousness everywhere, then you can switch into "social cameleon mode" and talk to he/she/them from their "spiral POV" in a way that they can absorb AND challenges/touches them so that they can get developmental growth - i.e. be a spiral wizard. If you get triggered by that situation - or - if they get triggered by your approach, then you got personal growth to engage with twist and turn all you want, we always... - all of us AND always - ...have personal developmental challenges to grab by the balls (or tits). That's the beauty of bobbing around in "the reality". Fun stuff. Live, teach, learn. Also, leave judgement out of the picture - IT'S A TRAP.

Aha good, excellent! ... so, what's your problem?

That is a great image - thank you for sharing that.

Never mind above - forum bug, can't delete. That's harsh and not very helpful. We can hate our condition, but we do not hate ourselves.

I cringe i little when others should assess where a person is in the spiral. But the idea of wanting feedback is noble. Although, that feedback is better off coming from someone who knows you in person. You could probably get tested to find out. I don't know about any spiral dynamics tests and I don't think that knowing for sure carry much value. In either case you could redirect the drive to know into reading up on the spiral and the healthy/unhealthy traits of each stage and assess yourself for the simple reason to address all the unhealthy stuff you find on that stage AND below - as you are likely to self-assess yourself above where you actually are - as well as revisiting the healty traits of each stage - and of course - pursue the emerging qualities of the stage you are in to ensure continuous growth. If you want to pay some money, the only thing I know of is the Harthill Sentence Completion test that tells you your LDP (Leadership Development Profile) based on your reasoning/sense making that you apply to the questions you need to answer. The leadership profiles reflect the stages of the spiral dynamics model, not 100% match in different stages but in how your mindset/cognition is working for you is the same. Unfortunately not "cheap" but everything is relative. https://harthill.co.uk/the-LDF-profile/getting-own-ldp/ Questions that you probably should ask yourself is why is it important to know - exactly why do you "need" to know? What difference does it make once you do know? What can you do when you know that you can't do already, today, right now?

How do you know? People who are social can be slaves under the expectations that they have built up for themselves, forcing them to take on a social persona/facade. I know this as I know 2 people who have had this problem in the past, one is a close friend, the other one was a past version of me. We were both "stuck in our heads" We talked about this a while ago. I told him he was social and he disagreed. He told me that it was me that was social, I disagreed. We were both taking on a social game face while doing so it made us feel bad. You just can't tell, if people don't want you to know. Hell, sometimes they don't really know themselves. Assumptions are dangerous.

Yes, seek professional help. It is calling out to you to take action. Meditation while there is something that is calling for you to take action is hard. Letting go of thoughts is one thing, alot of thoughts are just distractions, but some things call out for action that must be taken.

It is always easy to see once you've already opened your eyes. All we can do is be the inspiration that shows there is something good at the end of that tunnel and maybe that inspiration helps someone do the work it takes. Anywho, it all got somewhat OT, sorry @Dylan Page And that's the problem, questions that need answers, such answers that in the current state makes no sense, and hence, will not be given. Make it the start of a journey. Answers will come. It is okay to be confused along the way.